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I think ultimately PBOC will need to print quite a lot of CNY in coming years.

People put their life savings into banks in CNY.

These savings were lent by banks to real estate developers to build unprofitable malls, unsaleable buildings, bridges to nowhere, unneeded factories.

Banks won't get their money back, as the underlying asset fails to earn money to repay.

If PBOC doesn't print CNY, to bail out the banks ... bank won't be able to pay back depositors. (which PBOC won't let happen, since the entire banking system will collapse -> People will start hoarding goods, rather than currency).

Printing money will imply inflation. However, this monetary boost doesn't help growth return ... because the printed money is bailing out bad debt, not creating new factories or means of production.

This is inflation, but no growth. "Stagflation" is the technical term.

With all the inflation, CNY will need to keep devaluing, otherwise the export markets will be lost as well..further worsening the situation.

Most of Chinese investments that were funded between 2009-14, were with iron ore at $150-180 per ton (not at $70), oil over $100 (not at $70). So, the capital cost locked in these factories make them less competitive to fresh capacities coming up elsewhere in the world.

China meltdown isn't going to be pleasant .. for the Chinese at least.
 
I am of the mindset no infrastructural investment is a waste.

Overcapacity is wastage, CCP made three when one was needed, the primary goal was to throw in more investment into the economy as stimulus to drive growth, 'infrastructure building' was a secondary goal. All those investments have jacked up their GDP in previous years, but now they are about to add to the NPA of dangerously over-leveraged Chinese banks.
 
Overcapacity is wastage, CCP made three when one was needed, the primary goal was to throw in more investment into the economy as stimulus to drive growth, 'infrastructure building' was a secondary goal. All those investments have jacked up their GDP in previous years, but now they are about to add to the NPA of dangerously over-leveraged Chinese banks.

If you built it, they will come.
 
I am of the mindset no infrastructural investment is a waste.

A fine "bridge to nowhere". Price tag: 200 million GBP.

China’s new bridge to North Korea left with nowhere to go
1f34fef8-5d3f-11e4-_792747c.jpg


The opening of a spectacular new road bridge intended to transform trade between China and North Korea has been postponed indefinitely as mistrust crackles between the two countries and an all-important motorway link remains little more than a dusty track.
The £200 million bridge, which spans the Yalu River near the Chinese city of Dandong and has been the subject of numerous fallings-out between Beijing and Pyongyang, was to have opened this week.

China’s new bridge to North Korea left with nowhere to go | The Times

China Built A Bridge To Nowhere In North Korea

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-built-a-bridge-to-nowhere-in-north-korea-2014-11#ixzz3LDJTWnN8
The bridge was supposed to be a key link for trade and travel between China's underdeveloped northeast provinces and a much-touted special economic zone in North Korea — so key that Beijing sank more than $350 million into it.
Now, it is beginning to look like Beijing has built a bridge to nowhere.

An Associated Press Television News crew in September saw nothing but a dirt ramp at the North Korean end of the bridge, surrounded by open fields. No immigration or customs buildings could be seen. Roads to the bridge had not been completed.
The much-awaited opening of the new bridge over the Yalu River came and passed on Oct. 30 with no sign the link would be ready for business anytime soon. That prompted an unusually sharp report in the Global Times — a newspaper affiliated with the Chinese Communist Party — quoting residents in the Chinese city of Dandong expressing anger over delays in what they had hoped would be an economic boom for their border city.
The report suggested the opening of the mammoth, 3-kilometer bridge has been postponed "indefinitely."
Beijing and Pyongyang have made no official comment.
Foreign analysts have suggested the apparent lack of progress might indicate wariness in Pyongyang over China's economic influence in the country, which has been growing substantially in recent years as Pyongyang has become more isolated from other potential partners over its nuclear program, human rights record and other political issues.
Since its founding, North Korea has been exceedingly cautious of becoming too dependent on either of its superpower neighbors, China and Russia, preferring to play each off the other. That pattern seems to be repeating itself now.
The official media, while saying little about business with China, have lately been playing up the importance of improving trade and political ties with Moscow. On Monday, leader Kim Jong Un sent a powerful party cadre as his special envoy to Russia to discuss how to bolster such ties.
Better ties with Moscow could further dilute Beijing's leverage over the North, the limits of which became apparent when the North went ahead with its first nuclear test in 2006. Beijing has repeatedly urged North Korea to abandon nuclear weapons, to no avail.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-built-a-bridge-to-nowhere-in-north-korea-2014-11#ixzz3LDJNVNDJ
 
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I think ultimately PBOC will need to print quite a lot of CNY in coming years.

People put their life savings into banks in CNY.

These savings were lent by banks to real estate developers to build unprofitable malls, unsaleable buildings, bridges to nowhere, unneeded factories.

Banks won't get their money back, as the underlying asset fails to earn money to repay.

If PBOC doesn't print CNY, to bail out the banks ... bank won't be able to pay back depositors. (which PBOC won't let happen, since the entire banking system will collapse -> People will start hoarding goods, rather than currency).

Printing money will imply inflation. However, this monetary boost doesn't help growth return ... because the printed money is bailing out bad debt, not creating new factories or means of production.

This is inflation, but no growth. "Stagflation" is the technical term.

With all the inflation, CNY will need to keep devaluing, otherwise the export markets will be lost as well..further worsening the situation.

Most of Chinese investments that were funded between 2009-14, were with iron ore at $150-180 per ton (not at $70), oil over $100 (not at $70). So, the capital cost locked in these factories make them less competitive to fresh capacities coming up elsewhere in the world.

China meltdown isn't going to be pleasant .. for the Chinese at least.

Good analysis!
 
If you built it, they will come.

Exactly. This is the justification chine se gave .... to all this investment.

Economic Feasibility analysis is not necessary.. since, "If you build it, they will come".

Even if a mall is built in Antarctica, some one will come and buy goods.
 
Wasted investment; China's $6.8-trillion hole?
SHANGHAI

HAS CHINA really blown $6.8 trillion on worthless investments over the past five years? This is the startling claim made by two Chinese government researchers that has, understandably, caused quite a stir. If true, it would mean that fully 37% of Chinese investment since 2009 was wasted on building bridges to nowhere and homes with no one in them. There is, without question, plenty of worrying evidence that Chinese investment has become less efficient in recent years. But a closer look at how the researchers produced the $6.8 trillion figure badly damages their claim. Calling it a back-of-the-envelope estimate would be undeserved praise.

The $6.8 trillion calculation was made by Xu Ce of the National Development and Reform Commission, an economic planning agency, and Wang Yuan of the Academy of Macroeconomic Research, a think-tank under the commission. Their analysis was published last week as an opinion piece in the Shanghai Securities Journal, a government-run newspaper. In their article, they estimate that worthless investment totalled 7.9 trillion yuan in 2009; 5.4 trillion yuan in 2010; 4.7 trillion yuan in 2011; 10.6 trillion yuan in 2012; and 13.2 trillion yuan last year. That amounts to 41.8 trillion yuan over the past five years, or $6.8 trillion at the current exchange rate.

These are remarkably precise figures for wasted investment, something that, by its nature, is extremely hard to pin down. There are practical difficulties – for example, we know that some government investment funds have been skimmed off by corrupt officials, but it takes careful forensics to track the ill-gotten gains of one rotten official, let alone thousands of them. Even greater are the theoretical challenges. China has clearly built too many homes, too quickly, but if some of those that stand empty today are eventually bought then what once seemed a wasted investment could yet turn into a productive one.

So how exactly do Mr Xu and Ms Wang arrive at their numbers? Their method is to compare China’s capital efficiency in the 1980s and 1990s with the past decade; they treat any decline in efficiency as evidence of wasted investment. Although they don’t publish their calculations in full, their conclusions have the virtue of being very easy to replicate from official data. (Be warned that this is slightly wonky.)

Mr Xu and Ms Wang base their analysis entirely on the concept of incremental capital output ratio, or ICOR. ICOR is a measure of how much investment it takes to produce each additional unit of growth in an economy, with investment the numerator and additional GDP the denominator. The higher a country’s ICOR, the less efficient it is – that is, it takes more investment to produce a smaller amount of economic output. Mr Xu and Ms Wang begin by calculating that China’s average ICOR from 1979 to 1996 was 2.6. To do so they tot up each year’s ICOR and calculate a simple average. Here is a table of all of China's ICORs from 1979 to 1996, yielding the same average that they calculate:

Note: Some tables & charts could not be posted here because of formatting isues, please go to the link below to check those.

(Sources: National Bureau of Statistics; The Economist)


These numbers are fine for what they are – estimates of the efficiency of Chinese investment – but it is at this point that the two researchers make several unreasonable leaps of logic. First, they use the 1979-96 ICOR average of 2.6 as their baseline estimate of what China’s ICOR ought to be were its investments all efficient. Next, they calculate the difference in China’s investment efficiency from 2009-13. For example, in 2009, the ICOR was 5, which is 48% less efficient than the baseline ICOR of 2.6. Therefore, they conclude, 48% of all Chinese investment in 2009 – 7.9 trillion yuan – was worthless. Similar calculations for each year up until 2013 yields the eye-popping result that 41.8 trillion yuan has been wasted.

There are two major, indeed fatal, flaws in this. First, why have they chosen 1979-96 as their baseline for ICOR efficiency in China? A quick glance at the tables above reveals that there was a big jump in ICOR (that is, a big decline in efficiency) from 1997-2000, followed by an improvement. The 1979-96 selection leads to a sharp downward bias in their baseline estimate. If we break the ICOR into decades, and break out the past five years separately, the results are very different, as this table shows.

Note: Some tables & charts could not be posted here because of formatting isues, please go to the link below to check those.

(Sources: National Bureau of Statistics; The Economist)

* stopping pre-stimulus


Using Mr Xu and Ms Wang’s method for calculating efficiency differences, we now can compare the ICOR of 4.2 over the past five years with 3.3, the average for both of the previous two decades. This is a much more relevant yardstick than the pre-1997 era. On this revised basis, China’s investments after the global financial were 21% less efficient than in the 1990-2008 period. Sticking to Mr Xu and Ms Wang’s approach, this would mean that 21% of all investment over the past five years – 22.6 trillion yuan ($3.7 trillion) – had been wasted. That is still a lot of money to burn through, but it is almost half their headline-grabbing estimate.

That leads to the second and even bigger flaw – namely, this is a lousy method for calculating wasted investment. ICOR serves as a rough guide to the efficiency of investment. It does not, however, show how much money was been wasted, only that it is generating smaller or bigger growth returns compared with previous years. For example, say that an investment of $1000 boosts GDP by $500 this year, but only by $400 next year. In this case, ICOR will have risen from 2 to 2.5. Using Mr Xu and Ms Wang’s framework, because investment is 20% less efficient in the second year than it was in the first year (ICOR of 2.5 vs 2), this is tantamount to 20% of investment, or $200, being worthless. But that is completely absurd. All we can conclude is that the return on investment has fallen, not that $200 has been wasted. Moreover, it is inevitable that in years when investment soars – which was, after all, the point of China’s stimulus package – investment returns will appear to suffer. The real question is whether those investments deliver returns over time, hence the point in looking at average ICORs over a longer period.

None of this is to give the Chinese economy a clean bill of health. As we have written, debt has increased too quickly, and declines in both productivity and investment efficiency are worrisome. But $6.8 trillion down the drain in just five years? This at least is one thing that will not keep us up at night.

Wasted investment: China's $6.8-trillion hole? | The Economist

:lol: Some self consoling news?
 
If you built it, they will come.

Not really, not always. There are several reports on this issue pointing out the specific cases, I remember an article about two large ports they made in close proximity when the first port itself was underutilized, how do you recover the investment of the 2nd port? I will try to find out that article and post here, there are many such examples worth close to $7 trillion!!
 
A fine "bridge to nowhere". Price tag: 200 million GBP.

China’s new bridge to North Korea left with nowhere to go
1f34fef8-5d3f-11e4-_792747c.jpg


The opening of a spectacular new road bridge intended to transform trade between China and North Korea has been postponed indefinitely as mistrust crackles between the two countries and an all-important motorway link remains little more than a dusty track.
The £200 million bridge, which spans the Yalu River near the Chinese city of Dandong and has been the subject of numerous fallings-out between Beijing and Pyongyang, was to have opened this week.

China’s new bridge to North Korea left with nowhere to go | The Times

China Built A Bridge To Nowhere In North Korea

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-built-a-bridge-to-nowhere-in-north-korea-2014-11#ixzz3LDJTWnN8
The bridge was supposed to be a key link for trade and travel between China's underdeveloped northeast provinces and a much-touted special economic zone in North Korea — so key that Beijing sank more than $350 million into it.
Now, it is beginning to look like Beijing has built a bridge to nowhere.

An Associated Press Television News crew in September saw nothing but a dirt ramp at the North Korean end of the bridge, surrounded by open fields. No immigration or customs buildings could be seen. Roads to the bridge had not been completed.
The much-awaited opening of the new bridge over the Yalu River came and passed on Oct. 30 with no sign the link would be ready for business anytime soon. That prompted an unusually sharp report in the Global Times — a newspaper affiliated with the Chinese Communist Party — quoting residents in the Chinese city of Dandong expressing anger over delays in what they had hoped would be an economic boom for their border city.
The report suggested the opening of the mammoth, 3-kilometer bridge has been postponed "indefinitely."
Beijing and Pyongyang have made no official comment.
Foreign analysts have suggested the apparent lack of progress might indicate wariness in Pyongyang over China's economic influence in the country, which has been growing substantially in recent years as Pyongyang has become more isolated from other potential partners over its nuclear program, human rights record and other political issues.
Since its founding, North Korea has been exceedingly cautious of becoming too dependent on either of its superpower neighbors, China and Russia, preferring to play each off the other. That pattern seems to be repeating itself now.
The official media, while saying little about business with China, have lately been playing up the importance of improving trade and political ties with Moscow. On Monday, leader Kim Jong Un sent a powerful party cadre as his special envoy to Russia to discuss how to bolster such ties.
Better ties with Moscow could further dilute Beijing's leverage over the North, the limits of which became apparent when the North went ahead with its first nuclear test in 2006. Beijing has repeatedly urged North Korea to abandon nuclear weapons, to no avail.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-built-a-bridge-to-nowhere-in-north-korea-2014-11#ixzz3LDJNVNDJ

1) the article is sensationalist
2) 200 million GBP is not very much
3) It is one example.
 
Let me show some headbutt news used to put up by west, trying to put down China development. They even laugh at China spending huge money on high speed rail as useless, dumb investment, uselss infrastruture building programs. This new was in 2011.

The Backlash Is Brewing Against Chinese High-Speed Rail: Here's Why It's In Trouble - Business Insider

Let fast forward to 2013 now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/b...n-system-is-huge-success-for-china.html?_r=1&

And 2014 now, many countries are eager to emulate China so called expensive, useless high speed train infrastrutute building programs that included india.

China are building for the future now and not wait only for the needs. Such is the foresight of our CCP leader. The West can condemm how corrupted those CCP with recent many high profile cases of corrupted officers convicted but think about it. China has achieved world 2nd largest economy in 30 years time only. We are not as corrupted as many west wish us be.
 
1) the article is sensationalist
2) 200 million GBP is not very much
3) It is one example.

1. do you dispute the facts in the news: that there is not such bridge built. Or that it is a great bridge which is going to actually be of any use anytime soon?

2. USD 350 million is about 0.005 per cent of the wasted investment of $ 6700 billion. So, yes it is a small amount of the over all such things.

3. Yes, it is just one example. There are quite few well known to the world outside china. And the analysts who put together the $6700 may not be aware of many more such, than the ones they were able to count in.
 
Let me show some headbutt news used to put up by west, trying to put down China development. They even laugh at China spending huge money on high speed rail as useless, dumb investment, uselss infrastruture building programs. This new was in 2011.

Let fast forward to 2013 now.


And 2014 now, many countries are eager to emulate China so called expensive, useless high speed train infrastrutute building programs that included india.

China are building for the future now and not wait only for the needs. Such is the foresight of our CCP leader. The West can condemm how corrupted those CCP with recent many high profile cases of corrupted officers convicted but think about it. China has achieved world 2nd largest economy in 30 years time only. We are not as corrupted as many west wish us be.

Indian govt. is not putting any money for the high speed bullet train. It is asking PRIVATE players to invest and recover the money. See the difference ?
 
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