China Deployed J-11B jets in Tibet

[jagjitnatt]

lol, Raptor is too expensive for a dog fight, without being necessary, why it has to engage into a dog fight when it has absolutely long range stealthy advantages?

Come on. Isn't this what I said in my previous post?

But in duel to death without choice, i don't think Raptor would lose to MKI in a dog fight.

It was a hypothetical scenario of MKI vs F-22 dogfight.
Give me reasons why you think F-22 is superior in a dogfight. Give me facts, and not just what you think. And I'll counter them. Let's see where the debates takes us.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Come on. Isn't this what I said in my previous post?


It was a hypothetical scenario of MKI vs F-22 dogfight.
Give me reasons why you think F-22 is superior in a dogfight. Give me facts, and not just what you think. And I'll counter them. Let's see where the debates takes us.

Raptor's dog fight performance might not be great for its own generation, but forget about an aircraft from last generation, let alone a last gen multirole one.

 

[PoKeMon]

lol, Raptor is too expensive for a dog fight, without being necessary, why it has to engage into a dog fight when it has absolutely long range stealthy advantages?

But in a duel to death without choice, i don't think Raptor would lose to MKI in a dog fight.

Can you elaborate why a raptor will definitely beat a MKI in a dog fight.
Do you have some facts around or you are just saying because of some of your wet dreams prevailing over your sanity???
or may be the fact that MKI is not chinese so how can it even fly???

 

[jagjitnatt]

Raptor's dog fight performance might not be great for its own generation, but forget about an aircraft from last generation, let alone a last gen multirole one.

Generations mean nothing man. 3rd gen aircraft can take down a 4th gen aircraft. Same with 4th and 5th gen aircraft. What makes you think that a 4th gen aircraft can not take down a 5th gen aircraft in a dogfight?

A dogfight is not a 5th gen aircraft's trump card. It is its weakness. A 5h gen aircraft can not be good at dogfighting unless it compromises on its stealth aspect.

In stealth 5th gen > 4th gen.
But in dogfight it is not the same. MKI > F22

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Can you elaborate why a raptor will definitely beat a MKI in a dog fight.
Do you have some facts around or you are just saying because of some of your wet dreams prevailing over your sanity???
or may be the fact that MKI is not chinese so how can it even fly???

Please elaborate how MKI is king in dog fight?

No doubt that MKI is one of the best multirole aircraft, even better than Yankee's F-15E, but believing it can beat a next gen air-superiority aircraft in a dog fight it is just plain ridiculous.

 

[PoKeMon]

Raptor's dog fight performance might not be great for its own generation, but forget about an aircraft from last generation, let alone a last gen multirole one.

again you come up with a statement not a fact backed by some scientific theory

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Generations mean nothing man. 3rd gen aircraft can take down a 4th gen aircraft. Same with 4th and 5th gen aircraft. What makes you think that a 4th gen aircraft can not take down a 5th gen aircraft in a dogfight?

A dogfight is not a 5th gen aircraft's trump card. It is its weakness. A 5h gen aircraft can not be good at dogfighting unless it compromises on its stealth aspect.

In stealth 5th gen > 4th gen.
But in dogfight it is not the same. MKI > F22

So Raptor's dog fight performance is even decreasing comparing to its predecessor?

Yankee designers better to kill themselves for high wage they took and producing this overpriced toy.

 

[Sky_123]

Please elaborate how MKI is king in dog fight?

No doubt that MKI is one of the best multirole aircraft, even better than Yankee's F-15E, but believing it can beat a next gen air-superiority aircraft in a dog fight it is just plain ridiculous.

Just listen the remarks from USAF pilots about MKI after the Red Flag exercise:
YouTube - part 1 F-15 pilot opinion about the SU-30 MKI at Red Flag
YouTube - SU-30MKI at Red Flag Lecture Part 2

 

[PoKeMon]

Please elaborate how MKI is king in dog fight?

No doubt that MKI is one of the best multirole aircraft, even better than Yankee's F-15E, but believing it can beat a next gen air-superiority aircraft in a dog fight it is just plain ridiculous.

The basic fact is raptor is meant for air superiority which it can maintain in BVR face offs. Even you suggest that its a too costly a plane to engage in a dog fight simply because it is suceptible to other planes in the world in a dog fight.
We are not saying that MKI are super even your J-11A can knock down some raptors at a given day(when chinese luck prevails) in a dog fight. If you disagree please provide us some stats to back your statements.
Hands down raptor will beat any thing in BVR combats.

 

[jagjitnatt]

So Raptor's dog fight performance is even decreasing comparing to its predecessor?

Yankee designers better to kill themselves for high wage they took and producing this overpriced toy.

Its not the way you think. You can not create a all aspect stealth aircraft, and then make it super maneuverable. This is not possible today.

So LM designers had two options. Either to reduce the stealth, and make is super maneuverable or reduce maneuverability and make is super stealth.

They chose to make it stealthier. F-22 was never made to dogfight.
It is still more maneuverable than F-16,F-15,F-18s.
So they were happy with its maneuverability. But when compared to Russian counterparts, its not as maneuverable.

Russian engineers chose maneuverability over stealth, which is why Su 27/30 have a huge RCS, but much more maneuverability. These are the most maneuverable aircraft in the world.

You can not take them down in a dogfight. Only if the opponent pilot is significantly better than the Su pilots, will the opponent gain an upper hand in such scenarios.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Just listen the remarks from USAF pilots about MKI after the Red Flag exercise:
YouTube - part 1 F-15 pilot opinion about the SU-30 MKI at Red Flag
YouTube - SU-30MKI at Red Flag Lecture Part 2

I know the history of MKI outmanoeuvring F-15 in a simulating battle, but unknown about the Raptor, until we have an official record of simulating battle.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Just listen the remarks from USAF pilots about MKI after the Red Flag exercise:

And what do you want to say?
Please elaborate.

 

[jagjitnatt]

I know the history of MKI outmanoeuvring F-15 in a simulating battle, but unknown about the Raptor, until we have an official record of simulating battle.

I know its not the correct method. But look at the various Su30/27 videos and F-22 videos. You'll get your answer in no time.

You'll be amazed how agile and maneuverable Su 27/30 are. And you'll also see how lazy F-22 is compared compared to these aircraft

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Its not the way you think. You can not create a all aspect stealth aircraft, and then make it super maneuverable. This is not possible today.

So LM designers had two options. Either to reduce the stealth, and make is super maneuverable or reduce maneuverability and make is super stealth.

They chose to make it stealthier. F-22 was never made to dogfight.
It is still more maneuverable than F-16,F-15,F-18s.
So they were happy with its maneuverability. But when compared to Russian counterparts, its not as maneuverable.

Russian engineers chose maneuverability over stealth, which is why Su 27/30 have a huge RCS, but much more maneuverability. These are the most maneuverable aircraft in the world.

You can not take them down in a dogfight. Only if the opponent pilot is significantly better than the Su pilots, will the opponent gain an upper hand in such scenarios.

How do you know that Russian aircraft has a crushing advantage over Yankee's aircraft in a dog fight?

Last gen was all about dog fight, then F-15 has absolutely no chance against a Su-27?

I think Su-27 has an edge, but not a crushing advantage over F-15.

If F-22 can outmanoeuvre its predecessors, then it has no problem to outmanoeuvre the last gen Su-27 family. Since the dog fight performance between F-15 and Su-27 isn't that great.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Just listen the remarks from USAF pilots about MKI after the Red Flag exercise:
YouTube - part 1 F-15 pilot opinion about the SU-30 MKI at Red Flag
YouTube - SU-30MKI at Red Flag Lecture Part 2

Whoa, sorry for replying the comment without watching the video before.

I think there are 3 reasons why US pilot taunts the MKI and the Russian designed engine.

1. MKI is multirole aircraft not suitable for engaging into a dog fight.

2. American ego

3. The training problem from the Indian pilots.