China and Pakistan will make a very attractive offer to Egypt regarding the JF-17

[NirmalKrish]

indeed sounds more like an Indian air force that has jets from every possible manufacturer

Talk about Egypt not India, stop dragging us into your analogies, god you guys so obsessed. Get over it!

 

[ziaulislam]

Ahahahah..... I was thinking that as well.
I don't think Egypt will go for the JF-17. though. If they are so eager for another type of fighter jet to replace their ageing one they will go for Russian equivalent since they are already familiar with Russian fighters.

it depends, if Egypt has decided to cut numbers than yes thunder is not going to happen
but if they want to maintain their current numbers than they need to replace ~200 mirage 3,5,2000,mig21,f-7 fighters...with what?
mig 29, mig35 will cost~ 70M a piece with huge maintenance issue, i doubt Egypt can afford this like the saudis, they will need something which they can assemble and maintain at home and which should cost not more than 30-35M and is cable enough multi role aircraft..

there is nothing else on the market right now

 

[mike2000 is back]

it depends, if Egypt has decided to cut numbers than yes thunder is not going to happen
but if they want to maintain their current numbers than they need to replace ~200 mirage 3,5,2000,mig21,f-7 fighters...with what?
mig 29, mig35 will cost~ 70M a piece with huge maintenance issue, i doubt Egypt can afford this like the saudis, they will need something which they can assemble and maintain at home and which should cost not more than 30-35M and is cable enough multi role aircraft..

there is nothing else on the market right now

Saudi can finance Mig acquisition for Egypt just like they have been financing many critical projects in Egypt before. So finance might not be an issue.

 

[jamal18]

Guys, a lot of you are forgetting the basics. Jf-17 was never meant to compete with top end aircraft. It was meant to replace the lower end aircraft. Virtually no air force in the world can afford to replace every aircraft in their inventory with the latest super duper aircraft. There will always be a need for a low-cost aircraft doing the mundane tasks.

 

[CriticalThought]

Guys, a lot of you are forgetting the basics. Jf-17 was never meant to compete with top end aircraft. It was meant to replace the lower end aircraft. Virtually no air force in the world can afford to replace every aircraft in their inventory with the latest super duper aircraft. There will always be a need for a low-cost aircraft doing the mundane tasks.

It was always meant to compete against top of the line 4th gen aircraft by lowering the price point.

 

[jamal18]

It was always meant to compete against top of the line 4th gen aircraft by lowering the price point.

No. It was described even by the PAF as a 'medium' technology aircraft, not 'high'. The top end tasks were to be given to the 5th generation aircraft, like j-10.

 

[S.Y.A]

No. It was described even by the PAF as a 'medium' technology aircraft, not 'high'. The top end tasks were to be given to the 5th generation aircraft, like j-10.

J-10 is not 5th gen. And PAF officers were continuously claiming that JF-17 is equivalent to F-16, hence it was meant to be a Pakistani replacement for the F-16s, turns out that it is just a slightly upgraded version of the F-7.

 

[The Accountant]

J-10 is not 5th gen. And PAF officers were continuously claiming that JF-17 is equivalent to F-16, hence it was meant to be a Pakistani replacement for the F-16s, turns out that it is just a slightly upgraded version of the F-7.

Slightly upgraded ? Sir its much more advanced than f7 and mirrages ...

It is fewly network capable, much capable avionics and has EW suit ... so yes it is a compromize on manuverablity and speed due to engine but subsystems are great ...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

J-10 is not 5th gen. And PAF officers were continuously claiming that JF-17 is equivalent to F-16, hence it was meant to be a Pakistani replacement for the F-16s, turns out that it is just a slightly upgraded version of the F-7.

j-10 is bigger version of JF-17 yes it is not 5th but maybe 4.5 Gen this generation gradation is so controvertial and argued that there is no standard rule .
as for JF-17 it is years ahead of F-7 dont talk too down about it. even if we agree to this compit is compared to an improved version of F-7 then boy what an improvement. again to argue where it stands in he generational chart then look at its features vs other jets that are a yardstick.

now comparison to F-16 is a little political and depends who you ask. how good, better or at par with an F-16 cant be assured for certain until a 3rd / neutral party runs it against different blocks of F-16. the real answer remains with PAF that has compared it with its fleet. but that said the Jet is very promising and compare its current block with the initial block and you see improvement. so its work in progress and going very well. it is this Jet that has just come in time and dampened the effects of US policy towards India in order to prep it against China by offering F-16 factory had it been 20 years ago then it would have effected us badly. well this deserves another discussion thread which already exists. in summary , don't worry we wont be aggressively offering JF-17 to international market to be ridiculed if it was so lacking and so many leagues behind jets like F-16

 

[S.Y.A]

j-10 is bigger version of JF-17 yes it is not 5th but maybe 4.5 Gen this generation gradation is so controvertial and argued that there is no standard rule .
as for JF-17 it is years ahead of F-7 dont talk too down about it. even if we agree to this compit is compared to an improved version of F-7 then boy what an improvement. again to argue where it stands in he generational chart then look at its features vs other jets that are a yardstick.

now comparison to F-16 is a little political and depends who you ask. how good, better or at par with an F-16 cant be assured for certain until a 3rd / neutral party runs it against different blocks of F-16. the real answer remains with PAF that has compared it with its fleet. but that said the Jet is very promising and compare its current block with the initial block and you see improvement. so its work in progress and going very well. it is this Jet that has just come in time and dampened the effects of US policy towards India in order to prep it against China by offering F-16 factory had it been 20 years ago then it would have effected us badly. well this deserves another discussion thread which already exists. in summary , don't worry we wont be aggressively offering JF-17 to international market to be ridiculed if it was so lacking and so many leagues behind jets like F-16

I have no knowledge whatsoever other then what is available in the public domain about Jf-17s capabilities, but whatever info is available does show that JF-17 is not advanced as it is made out be. I am happy that it is being made in Pakistan and that our industry is progressing, but it just isn't enough:

Compare Jf-17 to Yak-130, a trainer, not even a front-line combat jet.

I would be very happy the day JF-17 stands toe-to-toe with F-16 Blk 60, or Gripen NG. I hope Blk-3 brings us closer to this.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I have no knowledge whatsoever other then what is available in the public domain about Jf-17s capabilities, but whatever info is available does show that JF-17 is not advanced as it is made out be. I am happy that it is being made in Pakistan and that our industry is progressing, but it just isn't enough:

Compare Jf-17 to Yak-130, a trainer, not even a front-line combat jet.

I would be very happy the day JF-17 stands toe-to-toe with F-16 Blk 60, or Gripen NG. I hope Blk-3 brings us closer to this.

very impressive Jet trainer if its yak 130 class

 

[CriticalThought]

I have no knowledge whatsoever other then what is available in the public domain about Jf-17s capabilities, but whatever info is available does show that JF-17 is not advanced as it is made out be. I am happy that it is being made in Pakistan and that our industry is progressing, but it just isn't enough:

Compare Jf-17 to Yak-130, a trainer, not even a front-line combat jet.

I would be very happy the day JF-17 stands toe-to-toe with F-16 Blk 60, or Gripen NG. I hope Blk-3 brings us closer to this.

If you have watched the many air displays in which Thunder has participated, you should be able to tell clearly it is 90% behind F-16 in terms of maneuverability and agility. That said, in Paris Airshow 2015, one of the pilots clearly said Thunder has a T/W of 1.09. That is actually higher than F-16. It is quite possible they deliberately don't fly it at full potential in trade shows in order to keep the capabilities secret.

F-16 has a FADEC engine which means the pilot doesn't have to worry about thrust. That's a big plus for the Viper.

In terms of avionics and EW, you are free to install what you please on the Thunder. It is as good as the money you put in, which power and space being the only limitations.

In Block 3, it is supposed to get a FADEC engine with even higher thrust. Though there isn't any update on this matter so let's wait and watch.

The cooling/power/space issues are being specifically targeted to enable integration of AESA radar.

Already, in the B model, we have a lower wing loading, meaning ability to carry more load. Also, the swept back vertical stabilizer should mean both better agility and ability to tolerate higher speeds. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the max speed has gone up from 1.6 Mach.

Finally, even today, Thunder is a war machine, able to carry two CM-802 against naval targets. Please don't compare it with a trainer aircraft.

 

[S.Y.A]

Please don't compare it with a trainer aircraft.

well, seeing that the trainer aircraft has almost the same weight carrying capacity as Thunder, and any sort of avionics package can be installed on that as per the customer's req, it is quite a good comparison. Until Jf-17 can carry 4 C-802s along with short range AAMs(I mean until the load capacity is increased, with more ahrdpoints), it can not be a proper strike aircraft.

Not saying that it is useless, but considering the size of threat we are facing(IAF, and potentially Afghan airforce, if they ever got one), it is not as potent as one would like it to be. It will be like driving a Mehran in F1 race.

 

[ziaulislam]

Saudi can finance Mig acquisition for Egypt just like they have been financing many critical projects in Egypt before. So finance might not be an issue.

there is limit to what they will do
you are asking for 20+ billion dollars(130-200 mig 35). they might end up financing a cheaper option
than what about operating cost!!

 

[CriticalThought]

well, seeing that the trainer aircraft has almost the same weight carrying capacity as Thunder, and any sort of avionics package can be installed on that as per the customer's req, it is quite a good comparison. Until Jf-17 can carry 4 C-802s along with short range AAMs(I mean until the load capacity is increased, with more ahrdpoints), it can not be a proper strike aircraft.

Not saying that it is useless, but considering the size of threat we are facing(IAF, and potentially Afghan airforce, if they ever got one), it is not as potent as one would like it to be. It will be like driving a Mehran in F1 race.

Which trainer are you talking about?