China and Pakistan will make a very attractive offer to Egypt regarding the JF-17

[ziaulislam]

This is all however a very big IF. Im not sold on JF-17 going to any arab air force, especially one that is so far in tge US sphere.

when it was democratic govt in Egypt, it was a no brainer to get thunders in number, best for its value and capabilities even in block 1 configuration(remember none of fighters had BVR)..but things have changed

 

[The SC]

Hi,

The US can only dictate terms with France if it has US parts---. If the Egyptians have not received the scalp yet---then it won't happen unless the US says so---.

That is one reason that the Egyptians must look for a JF17 packaged with Hatf V111 missile---.

The US won't upgrade their F16's---. If you cannot get the BVR and other goodies---what good is the F16---.

It was pretty much useless to begin with---for air to air combat---if I am wrong someone please correct me---.

Egypt operates the AIM-7 Sparrow which is a BVR missile on all its F-16s..

"The AIM-7 Sparrow is an American, medium-range semi-active radar homing air-to-air missile operated by the United States Air Force, United States Navy and United States Marine Corps, as well as other various air forces and navies. Sparrow and its derivatives were the West's principal beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missile from the late 1950s until the 1990s. It remains in service, although it is being phased out in aviation applications in favor of the more advanced AIM-120 AMRAAM."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow



SCALP EG (Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée – Emploi Général, meaning General Purpose Long Range Standoff Cruise Missile). The missile is based on the earlier MBDA Apache anti-runway missile, and differs in that it carries a warhead, rather than submunitions.

Current operators

Egypt
50 ordered for the Egyptian Air Force in 2015 as part of the Dassault Rafale deal.[39]

France
500 ordered for the French Air Force in 1998. 50 MdCNs ordered in 2006 and a further 100 ordered in 2009 for the French Navy. As of 2016, France will reduce its stocks down 100 missiles.[40]

Greece
90 ordered for the Hellenic Air Force in 2000 and 2003.[citation needed]

Italy
485 ordered for the Aeronautica Militare in 1999.[citation needed]

India
Unknown number ordered for the Indian Air Force in 2016 as part of the Dassault Rafale deal.[41]

Qatar
140 ordered for the Qatar Air Force in 2015.[42]

Saudi Arabia
300+ ordered for the Royal Saudi Air Force in 2006.[citation needed]

United Arab Emirates
600 ordered for the United Arab Emirates Air Force in 1997. Known as Black Shaheen.[citation needed]

United Kingdom
900+ ordered for the Royal Air Force in 1997.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Shadow


Egypt was operating the MBDA Apache on which the Scalp EG is based for a long time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_munitions_used_by_the_Egyptian_Air_Force

 

[ziaulislam]

Egypt operates the AIM-7 Sparrow which is a BVR missile on all its F-16s..

"The AIM-7 Sparrow is an American, medium-range semi-active radar homing air-to-air missile operated by the United States Air Force, United States Navy and United States Marine Corps, as well as other various air forces and navies. Sparrow and its derivatives were the West's principal beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air missile from the late 1950s until the 1990s. It remains in service, although it is being phased out in aviation applications in favor of the more advanced AIM-120 AMRAAM."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow



SCALP EG (Système de Croisière Autonome à Longue Portée – Emploi Général, meaning General Purpose Long Range Standoff Cruise Missile). The missile is based on the earlier MBDA Apache anti-runway missile, and differs in that it carries a warhead, rather than submunitions.

Current operators

Egypt
50 ordered for the Egyptian Air Force in 2015 as part of the Dassault Rafale deal.[39]

France
500 ordered for the French Air Force in 1998. 50 MdCNs ordered in 2006 and a further 100 ordered in 2009 for the French Navy. As of 2016, France will reduce its stocks down 100 missiles.[40]

Greece
90 ordered for the Hellenic Air Force in 2000 and 2003.[citation needed]

Italy
485 ordered for the Aeronautica Militare in 1999.[citation needed]

India
Unknown number ordered for the Indian Air Force in 2016 as part of the Dassault Rafale deal.[41]

Qatar
140 ordered for the Qatar Air Force in 2015.[42]

Saudi Arabia
300+ ordered for the Royal Saudi Air Force in 2006.[citation needed]

United Arab Emirates
600 ordered for the United Arab Emirates Air Force in 1997. Known as Black Shaheen.[citation needed]

United Kingdom
900+ ordered for the Royal Air Force in 1997.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Shadow


Egypt was operating the MBDA Apache on which the Scalp EG is based for a long time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_munitions_used_by_the_Egyptian_Air_Force

calling a unreliable, archaic weapon like aim is 7 a BVR is like calling Japanese Zeros as jet fighters
its not a true BVR weapon in essence, it doesnt has an active radar seeker...it wasnt built for modern BVR engagement but against threat of soviet bomber fleet

 

[The SC]

calling a unreliable, archaic weapon like aim is 7 a BVR is like calling Japanese Zeros as jet fighters
its not a true BVR weapon in essence, it doesnt has an active radar seeker...it wasnt built for modern BVR engagement but against threat of soviet bomber fleet

A number of upgraded Sparrow designs were developed to address these issues. In the early 1970s, the RAF developed a version with an inverse monopulse seeker and improved motor known as Skyflash, while the Italian Air Force introduced the similar Aspide. Both had the ability to be fired at targets below the launching fighter ("look-down, shoot down"), were more resistant to countermeasures, and much more accurate in the terminal phases. This basic concept was then made part of the US Sparrows in the M model (for monopulse) and some of these were later updated as the P model, the last to be produced in the US. Aspides sold to China resulted in the locally produced PL10. The Japan Self-Defense Forces also employ the Sparrow missile, though it is being phased out and replaced by the Mitsubishi AAM-4.



As early as 1950 Douglas examined equipping the Sparrow with an active radar seeker, initially known as XAAM-N-2a Sparrow II,
...

The most common version of the Sparrow today, the AIM-7M, entered service in 1982 and featured a new inverse monopulse seeker (matching the capabilities of Skyflash), active radar proximity fuse, digital controls, improved ECM resistance, and better low-altitude performance. It was used to good advantage in the 1991 Gulf War, where it scored many USAF air-to-air kills. Of 44 missiles fired, 30 (68.2%) hit their intended targets resulting in 24/26 (54.5%/59.1%) kills. 19 kills were obtained beyond visual range.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow

 

[Tank131]

Sparrow was a decent weapon but it hasnt had a major new iteration since the 1982 and certainly one cannot look at tue performance of such a weapon in 1990s and compare it to a modern bvr missile. Beyond this, i think EAF may have more F-16s than it does Sparrows . In addition to this, wikipedia also list Pakistan as an operator of Aim-7 (and AGM-88 HARM), which it is not (despite rumors in the early 2000s regarding a secret stash of Sparrows and a secret deal for R-darter or the mystery T-darter). While i know that the Egyptian F-16 is sparrow capable th weapon they operate is the Aim-7P which was produced in 198-1990s. At this point it is 25-30 years old. Im not even sure the shelf life of the missile would allow it to be useful anymore. Even,in dessert storm the hit rate for sparrow was 37%, although it was responsible for 26 kills. These are not modern bvr weapons. The only thing they currently have that is capable is 20 M2K and Mica, although in a2g the F-16 is still good.

 

[Avicenna]

A number of upgraded Sparrow designs were developed to address these issues. In the early 1970s, the RAF developed a version with an inverse monopulse seeker and improved motor known as Skyflash, while the Italian Air Force introduced the similar Aspide. Both had the ability to be fired at targets below the launching fighter ("look-down, shoot down"), were more resistant to countermeasures, and much more accurate in the terminal phases. This basic concept was then made part of the US Sparrows in the M model (for monopulse) and some of these were later updated as the P model, the last to be produced in the US. Aspides sold to China resulted in the locally produced PL10. The Japan Self-Defense Forces also employ the Sparrow missile, though it is being phased out and replaced by the Mitsubishi AAM-4.



As early as 1950 Douglas examined equipping the Sparrow with an active radar seeker, initially known as XAAM-N-2a Sparrow II,
...

The most common version of the Sparrow today, the AIM-7M, entered service in 1982 and featured a new inverse monopulse seeker (matching the capabilities of Skyflash), active radar proximity fuse, digital controls, improved ECM resistance, and better low-altitude performance. It was used to good advantage in the 1991 Gulf War, where it scored many USAF air-to-air kills. Of 44 missiles fired, 30 (68.2%) hit their intended targets resulting in 24/26 (54.5%/59.1%) kills. 19 kills were obtained beyond visual range.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7_Sparrow

The bottom line remains Egypt will always be limited to qualitatively inferior weapons from the US and in this case France due to Israeli interests.

Nothing you have posted changes that fact.

 

[Maxpane]

Hope both parties agree on that deal

 

[The-Hack]

This attractive offer may about the co-production of JF-17 block 3 OR training version JF-17B???

 

[The SC]

The bottom line remains Egypt will always be limited to qualitatively inferior weapons from the US and in this case France due to Israeli interests.

Nothing you have posted changes that fact.

Not From France.. this deal will go through anyway, because those parts made in the US have been designed in Europe; namely in France and Britain.. and they can be made in France if the US keeps blocking the sale..

In the case off the US.. yes of course the Usraeli "security" and military edge will always be a political card to play the control game of other ME nations.. but even that has been phased out now with Russian and Chinese weapons.. you can look up the weapons sold to Egypt from Russia in the Mig-35 package and the KA-52 Alligators and the KA-52 Katran.. add to it the Tor, Buk, the S-300 VM and other important air-defence systems.. So do not talk about inferior qualitative weapons.. Because the fact is the equilibrium is there already and what ever comes from the West is just a bonus..

 

[Avicenna]

Not From France.. this deal will go through anyway, because those parts made in the US have been designed in Europe; namely in France and Britain.. and they can be made in France if the US keeps blocking the sale..

In the case off the US.. yes of course the Usraeli "security" and military edge will always be a political card to play the control game of other ME nations.. but even that has been phased out now with Russian and Chinese weapons.. you can look up the weapons sold to Egypt from Russia in the Mig-35 package and the KA-52 Alligators and the KA-52 Katran.. add to it the Tor, Buk, the S-300 VM and other important air-defence systems.. So do not talk about inferior qualitative weapons.. Because the fact is the equilibrium is there already and what ever comes from the West is just a bonus..

American and Western European systems are better generally speaking.