China All Su-35 news

[3Idiots]

Is there an RTI Act (Right to Information Act) in China?

 

[Akasa]

The main reason why China bought the Su-35S was to make up for the final J-11B batch that was not produced. This was mainly due to SAC's retooling for the preparation of the production of J-15 and J-16.

 

[UKBengali]

The main reason why China bought the Su-35S was to make up for the final J-11B batch that was not produced. This was mainly due to SAC's retooling for the preparation of the production of J-15 and J-16.

Why would China buy 24(?) Su-35s for this reason alone?

It seems like introducing a massively logistical headache for not much gain?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Dude are you the professioner or where you got this common sense news. from your mind or any credible source. first of all india didn't signed any deal with russia for PAK FA. In PAK FA we are just a buyer not a co producer. In FGFA only we are going to start a discussion with russia for a research and development process.And for the third markets, even russia is going to submit FGFA only not a PAK FA. because PAK FA for russian need only. and they can sell that to any one. yeah we can object or we can express our concerns, but we can't stop it. And we cannot spend that much what china can. so russia can sell their water down version of pak fa to any one who are ready to give money and russia barely needs money that we can't afford that much right now.

Actually India has funded quite a bit of the PAK-FA project, yes there is not much design input on the Indian side on the PAK-FA (like it will have with the FGFA) but the funding alone means Russia can't afford to cross India on this matter.

Regardless of this, India has been able to control Russia's arms exports to India's rivals without lifting a finger. Russia knows which side their bread is buttered.

Why would China buy 24(?) Su-35s for this reason alone?

It seems like introducing a massively logistical headache for not much gain?

This is a cover, the SU-35 sale in such small numbers is a blatant admission to the world that China is unable to devlop certain key tech namely advanced contemporary engines and certain avionics and sensors.

 

[UKBengali]

Actually India has funded quite a bit of the PAK-FA project, yes there is not much design input on the Indian side on the PAK-FA (like it will have with the FGFA) but the funding alone means Russia can't afford to cross India on this matter.

Regardless of this, India has been able to control Russia's arms exports to India's rivals without lifting a finger. Russia knows which side their bread is buttered.


This is a cover, the SU-35 sale in such small numbers is a blatant admission to the world that China is unable to devlop certain key tech namely advanced contemporary engines and certain avionics and sensors.

You do realise that it is impossible, should say almost impossible, to copy an engine?

That is the reason that the West sells jet airliners to China and does not worry about jet engine tech being reverse engineered by the Chinese.

 

[Abingdonboy]

You do realise that it is impossible, should say almost impossible, to copy an engine?

That is the reason that the West sells jet airliners to China and does not worry about jet engine tech being reverse engineered by the Chinese.

A turbofan engine off an airliner being copied isn't a worry to anyone, an advanced TVC capable jet engine is a different matter.

 

[UKBengali]

A turbofan engine off an airliner being copied isn't a worry to anyone, an advanced TVC capable jet engine is a different matter.

Yes it is - the core technology is the same.

Anyway it is nigh-on impossible to copy a turbofan engine.

Otherwise, China would have copied the Al-31 years ago.

 

[sancho]

Come on guys. China buys or not to buy Russian stuff is mainly political. What strength can PLA get by having 20 some fighters and a few submarines. It's either a gesture of friendship or something that PLA wants to look at closely.

A nice try to downplay the procurement.

Have you got any firm source that Russia won't sell T50 to China?

Of course he hasn't neither will you find an official Russian source about the sale of Pak Fa (T50 is just the prototype), to China. The fact however is, that anything with Indian involvement (financial or technical) can't be sold without approval from both sides (FGFA, MTA, Brahmos), while Russia still could sell their own versions (Pak Fa, P-800 Oniks), but that's a theory only. If Russia wanted to sell China higher techs, they would have done it for quiet some time and surley would have included you in the Pak Fa program, at least because the economical benefit would be higher, since China would need a higher number of fighters. But that didn't happend and even wrt to radar or engines Russia was always restrictive towards China, so speculating on potential Pak Fa sales has no real base either.
Infact, if that would have been even remotely possible, China would have taken the early Pak Fa versions, that Russian Air Force wants to induct in 2015, but instead they offered Su 35 ony to increase it's exports.

Is there any variant of Amur with both VLS and AIP ??

It's always either or so far, since both would require a dedicated module and the addition of 2 moduls in this class seems not to be possible, similar to other AIP SSKs.

Why would China buy 24(?) Su-35s for this reason alone?

It seems like introducing a massively logistical headache for not much gain?

Exactly, even if the productionline would have to be re-tooled (although it doesn't make much sense for J15), China could also have added some J10B squadrons inhouse, instead of procuring another fighter from an external source. The limited numbers als shows that there is hardly any operational purpose behind it, which leaves mainly what was expected before. It's the techs and capabilities of the fighter that is the important point of the procurement!

 

[Ammyy]

It's the techs and capabilities of the fighter that is the important point of the procurement!

Then why Russians risking their high end technology to china just for a billion doller deal?

 

[sancho]

Then why Russians risking their high end technology to china just for a billion doller deal?

Maybe because for them it might not be high tech anymore. IRBIS E is a powerful radar, but a PESA, further developed from the BARS radar which is available for more than a decade now! On the other side, they have Mig 35 prototypes flying with Zhuk AE, BARS AESA is under development and on offer for MKI upgrade, just like to T50 prototypes are already flying and testing their latests AESA radar too.
Same goes for engine as well, althought the 117S is much better than the AL31F or the Chinese engines available so far, for Russia it is not the best anymore, since they are upgrading it again for the use in Pak Fa and already developing an whole new NG engine, for the use in the final Pak Fa / FGFA.

 

[Ammyy]

@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

May be some political reason behind it.
@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

May be some political reason behind it.

 

[sancho]

@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

They seems to be desperate yes, but mainly because there is no potential sale to other countries! They have shown and offered the Su 35 on various markets (Asia, Gulf countries and now S. America), but so far not a single customer was found.
For India this won't be a big issue anyway, since Russia offers us even more and the numbers are quiet low to make a big difference, so I don't see any loss for Russia with this sale.

 

[danger007]

@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

May be some political reason behind it.
@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

May be some political reason behind it.

Sancho, abingdonboy point it is a JV... which India investing Billions of $$$$$... and India should agree before they sell it to any country....

 

[sancho]

@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

They seems to be desperate yes, but mainly because there is no potential sale to other countries! They have shown and offered the Su 35 on various markets (Asia, Gulf countries and now S. America), but so far not a single customer was found.
For India this won't be a big issue anyway, since Russia offers us even more and the numbers are quiet low to make a big difference, so I don't see any loss for Russia with this sale.

 

[danger007]

@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

May be some political reason behind it.
@sancho

But still Russians seems so desperate to sell these jets to china even after knowing that this can cause to loss their potential sell to other countries.

May be some political reason behind it.

Sancho, abingdonboy point it is a JV... which India investing Billions of $$$$$... and India should agree before they sell it to any country....