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China 1992, India 2012

I am being realistic, there will only be one at the top of the food chain, right now India cannot displace China, but can still develop and live in a world under China's influence.

No harm in dreaming. I hope the dreams don't come crashing down too soon. ;)

In fact, China is a distant country for India. You should look at your real East Asian neighbors. Even smaller countries like Vietnam and Korea and Japan don't much care for your non existent "influence".
 
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No harm in dreaming. I hope the dreams don't come crashing down too soon. ;)

In fact, China is a distant country for India. You should look at your real East Asian neighbors. Even smaller countries like Vietnam and Korea and Japan don't much care for your non existent "influence".

Without USA, they are really nothing.
 
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Name one single high end product that Chinese manufacturing sector has developed on its own..

1. China develops its own high technology. General Electric and Siemens most certainly did not provide China with their patented technology to manufacture rotors for 1,000MW turbines.

2. Huawei is a world leader in communications technology.

3. China is a world leader in machine tool technology.

4. China is a world leader in cloning technology.

I could go on, but I will stop at four examples. I don't want to look like I'm bragging.

Rotor for 1,000MW ultra-supercritical Steam Turbine | China's Great Science and Technology

"Rotor for 1,000MW Ultra-supercritical Steam Turbine
November 9, 2011

cuDAA.jpg

China has already manufactured a 12% Chromium high-quality forged rotor for an 1,000MW USC (ultra-supercritical) steam turbine under high pressure.

China’s strategy to meet its greenhouse gas commitment is to continue full steam ahead by converting its coal-fired power plant fleet from a conventional one to an ultra-supercritical one — a move that will decrease its energy intensity from coal-generated power by more than 20 percent.

A coal-fired power plant operates by boiling water to create a high-pressure steam that drives a turbine which produces electricity by moving an electrical wire through a magnetic field.

A conventional (or subcritical) plant typically operates at temperatures up to 1,050 degrees Fahrenheit and has an efficiency of between 33 and 39 percent. Operating a plant at higher temperatures and pressures can increase its efficiency, potentially lowering emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the process.

A so-called supercritical plant operates at sufficiently high pressures and temperatures (between 1,000 and 1,075 degrees Fahrenheit) such that the water and steam become indistinguishable (the critical point of a liquid), allowing efficiency rates to reach 42 percent. An ultra-supercritical plant operates at temperatures of 1,075 degrees Fahrenheit and above and can achieve efficiencies of more than 42 percent.

China has jumped into the ultra-supercritical game with both feet. It is busy building supercritical and ultra-supercritical power plants at an astonishing rate — a whole lot faster, by the way, than we are here in the United States. And China’s ultra-supercritical power plant that went online in Yuhuan in 2006 reportedly holds the record as “the world’s cleanest, most efficient and most advanced ultra-supercritical units” with an efficiency of 46 percent.

Until now, the key high temperature equipment for supercritical and ultra-supercritical power units were mainly imported from foreign countries. China currently requires our national enterprises to domestically manufacture the key high temperature equipment. For making seamless tubes and large pipes, Chinese enterprises will be equipped with more 35MN, 60MN and one 350MN extrusion machines in the near future.

Large-scale castings for 1,000MW USC steam turbine already can be made in China. Large-scale forging have been also trial-produced. High-purity low alloy steel forging for low pressure rotor and 12% Cr high-quality forged rotor for 1,000MW USC steam turbine high pressure rotor are made in China."

----------

Huawei Unveils Industry’s First Giga DSL Prototype

oYjzq.jpg

Huawei Smart AX M5300. The Smart AX MA5300 platform has been instrumental to Huawei's success in the global DSLAM (digital subscriber line access multiplexer) market, but the MA5600 series, designed to support more bandwidth-intensive services such as triple/quad play, is the company's flagship DSLAM.

http://www.vadvert.co.uk/technology/19503-...-prototype.html

"Huawei Unveils Industry’s First Giga DSL Prototype
Mariah Lawson on 12 19, 2011

Can Achieve Access Rate of One Gbps per Twisted Pair

Shenzhen, China, Huawei, a leading global information and communications technology (ICT) provider, today announced that it successfully launched the industry’s first Giga DSL (Digital Subscriber line) prototype. The Giga DSL system employs time division duplex (TDD) to achieve a total upstream and downstream rate of 1,000 Mb/s over a single twisted pair.

In order to address obstacles related to limited bandwidth of FTTB (Fiber to the Building)/FTTC(Fiber to the Curb) and difficulty in deploying FTTH (Fiber to the Home) drop cables – so that users can enjoy bandwidth-hungry services such as IPTV and HDTV – optical fiber access points need to be located closer to users. While, 100 Mbp/s-plus ultra-broadband access can be made available relatively quickly by utilizing legacy copper line resources, providing 1,000 Mbp/s bandwidth within 100 meters of twisted pairs using DSL technology is more complex.

By using low-power spectral density in-signal transmission, Huawei’s Giga DSL prototype reduces radiation interference and power consumption, and provides a total upstream and downstream rate of one Gb/s within 100 meters, and 500 Mb/s-plus within 200 meters – making it a cost-effective option for telecom operators building ultra-broadband access networks.

Giga DSL is a next-generation access technology solution that's growing quickly. In 2011, ITU-T set up a G.fast project team dedicated to formulating new standards for ultra-speed access at short distances, the aim being to achieve 500 Mb/s access rate per twisted pair within 100 meters. Huawei has actively participated in the work of the team and has become a major technical contributor, having recently worked to incorporate TDD-OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing) as a G.fast modulation mode.

Dr. Long Guozhu, Huawei’s Principal Expert of DSL technology, said, “Huawei has taken the lead in developing a Giga DSL prototype because of our rich capabilities and industry-leading technical strengths in access networks. It was inevitable that spectrum expansion would help us improve the rate of a twisted pair at a short distance, but after the spectrum is expanded, a technical issue appears: how to design the high-speed physical layer and high-frequency analog front end (AFE). To tackle this issue, Huawei’s FBB Innovation Lab used the core solution TDD-OFDM, which simplifies the physical-layer architecture and the AFE design, while at the same time makes it possible to be downward compatible with traditional ADSL/VDSL2 technologies.”

Huawei also recently announced the successful development of the world’s first node level vectoring (NLV) prototype. Huawei’s vectoring product provides 100 Mbps access over a single twisted pair in FTTC/FTTB, and has been tested and commercially trialed with many leading telecom operators. This, along with the company’s latest prototype, Giga DSL, signifies that DSL technology still has great potential to meet the requirements of broadband users for ultra-high-speed access in the future.

Huawei’s advances within Giga DSL will enhance the capabilities of the company’s SingleFAN broadband access solution. Its SingleFAN solution and related offerings are now servicing over one third of the world’s broadband users with ultra-broadband access services."

[Note: Picture source link: http://www.n9ws.com/users/damien/tutos/degroupage.htm. Caption source link: Huawei - SmartAX MA5300 (Product Advisor) - Market Research Reports - Research and Markets.]

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China's CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling Machine

中国研成数控七轴五联动机床可加工大舰螺旋桨(图)
武重集团863计划项目课题CKX5680数控七轴五联动车铣复合加工机床填补国内空白

9月18日,国家科技部组织高新技术产品专家验收组对武重承担的国家“863计划”项目课题—— CKX56 80数控七轴五联动车铣复合加工机床进行了验收。省科技厅、市科技局的领导参与并指导了此次验收活 动。

qPmQH.jpg


大型舰艇螺旋浆用重型七轴五联动车铣复合加工机床是国家高新技术研究发展计划(863计划)项目,该项目主 要由武重集团公司承担,华中科技大学国家数控系统工程技术研究中心和镇江船舶螺旋浆厂参与,产 学研相结合共 同研制完成的。

验收组由北京航空航天大学王田苗教授、北京机床研究所盛伯浩研究员等9名国内知名专家组成。专家组认为,七 轴五联动复合机床样机属国内首创,技术规范,其主机、数控系统、编程技术等具有创新性,完成了项目合同规定 的任务。

The Wuhan Heavy Industry Corp. just made a breakthrough in an 863 Project. This is the CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling machine. This is significant as it is specialised in building ship propellers, like this one, for aircraft carriers and submarines. They are much more precise than those 5-axis machines.

[Note: Thank you to "pugachev_diver" for the post.]

----------

China gets success in cloning world's first rabbit

http://www.scienceahead.com/entry/china-ge...s-first-rabbit/

"China gets success in cloning world's first rabbit
Parul G | Jul 24 2007

rabbit1902072bunny300.jpg


After research of more than three decades in cloning and producing the first cloned animal, a goat in 2000, China has once again been successful in cloning world’s first rabbit. The Chinese scientists have produced the cloned female rabbit biologically, using the somatic cells of a rabbit fetus.

Dr. Li Shangang who conducted the experiment of rabbit cloning is a researcher at the National Center for Molecular Genetics and Animal Breeding of the Beijing Institute of Animal Sciences.

Dr. Li and his team chose the back skin cells of a 20-day old rabbit embryo. They cultured these cells into fibroblast cell lines. Then these fibroblast cells (donor cells) were fused with an enucleated rabbit’s oocyte (immature egg cell of animal ovary) through electric pulse. Thus cloned embroys were produced which were later transferred into the rabbit’s oviduct. The female clone rabbit was born after a month-long normal pregnancy on February 12 and had weighed 60 grams at birth. Now the rabbit is doing well and is at an animal center in Shanghai.

The first animal to be cloned using somatic cells was the sheep - Dolly in 1996. Since then many other animals as mice, cattle and ###### have been cloned by scientists.

In 2002, French scientists too had claimed to produce the world’s first cloned rabbit but that was done by using cells from an adult female rabbit. However, the Chinese rabbit is the world’s first clone rabbit that has used “fibroblast” cells from a fetal rabbit.

On the achievement, Wang Hongguang, director of the China Center for Biotechnology Development affiliated to the Ministry of Science and Technology said:

Chinese cloning research has reached a global advanced level. We can reproduce almost all the cloning results in top-class laboratories around the world. However, we are lacking in original creations such as the newly cloned rabbit.

Rabbits are considered significant research tools because of their shorter gestation period than other big mammals such as sheep or cows.

Malaysia has also turned to cloning and is in efforts to clone some of its threatened leatherback turtles to save them from extinction.

Source: Reuters"

chinaclonedrabbitsurrog.jpg

"China's Liberation Daily reports today that the world's first transgenic-cloned rabbit is now three months old and living happily in Shanghai. The rabbit was cloned from the skin cells of a 20-day-old embryo, which were then implanted into the oviduct of a female rabbit."
(The photo shows the cloned rabbit (left) and her surrogate mother.
Posted by Xujun Eberlein)

http://www.china.org.cn/english/China/236263.htm

"As rabbits share similar genes with humans, the genetically-modified cloned rabbit is expected to be used for research into cardiovascular and eye diseases as well as some genetic ailments, said Dr. Li Shangang with the Chinese Academy of Agricultural Sciences."
 
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No harm in dreaming. I hope the dreams don't come crashing down too soon. ;)

In fact, China is a distant country for India. You should look at your real East Asian neighbors. Even smaller countries like Vietnam and Korea and Japan don't much care for your non existent "influence".

Sure they do. Vietnam is silencing its protestors with arrests and mandatory drug rehab for going against China. Damn I love Vietnam. Japan can only protest as we drill gas and oil in what they claim to be their land, and cannot even lift a finger. I love Japan too.
 
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You do know that the value of money changes over time right? :lol:

100 dollars in 2003 are not worth the same as 100 dollars in 2010, not by a long shot.

Doesn't change what I mentioned. The difference in this case was just 7 years.

And that gap is widening. To illustrate, see my previous post about how the ratio of Chinese GDP to Indian GDP changed from 1990-2010.

If you think that we can not sustain our growth for much longer, I would disagree, and say that such a thing applies much more to India than it does to China. The difference is that we already had three decades of double-digit growth, while India has not even entered the sustained double-digit growth race in the first place.

Mostly speculation. We can't predict the future.

The talk of ratios is futile in the fast changing situation.

You really think your GDP grew by 4 times in seven years? How much of that growth was due to inflation and how much due to real growth?
 
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we're actually trying to force the assembly companies out by raising the minimum wage.

Only 80% of the workers bother going back because they have better deals now.

80% of your labor is involved in manufacturing low cost or copied products. Guess that's the best deal for them..

in India though, 8 year old children are grateful for the opportunity to haul dirt on a construction site because its better than being killed for being Dalit or starving.

What about the slave child labors who work & die in Chinese brick kilns? I think it works better for them then to be killed in black jails or in rural areas..
 
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Can the mods do something about this MArtian2 guy:confused:

This is no way to debate, you can't just overwhelm everyone with irrelevant information. Its a pain in the as* to go through the thread. And the people who are quoting him, must you quote all of his post for your useless oneliners:hitwall:
 
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we're actually trying to force the assembly companies out by raising the minimum wage.

Only 80% of the workers bother going back because they have better deals now.

in India though, 8 year old children are grateful for the opportunity to haul dirt on a construction site because its better than being killed for being Dalit or starving.

Well, let me not stoop to your level here. I can get deep into your humiliations and imperfections of your society but I would rather try and improve my own.

Meanwhile how about going back to the Queue hairstyle that the Manchus forced on you.

Give hair or give head. ;)

the_queue_order_in_early_qing_dynasty7805c5cff857f4c48f84.jpg


Your own Han society has been extremely feudal throughout with ordinary Hans crushed under the feudals' horses and no one to even bother about the lives of millions. Don't try to be racist or you will repent.

Perhaps you don't realize that the other racists don't place you high on the race pyramid at all. ;)
 
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i agree, our biosci sector is very weak, and those are high growth fields, which means our citation average is dragged down even lower.

however, i think we should also focus on recent years, as comparing 1996-2010 reflects more on a country's base and its degree of English ability, more than its actual science.

I've taken the liberty of looking at 2010 publication numbers and they're not in India's favor.

SJR - International Science Ranking
SJR - International Science Ranking
SJR - International Science Ranking

Chemistry: China 2.08 citations per document, Japan 2.12 citations per document, India 1.39.
Physics and Astronomy: China 1.04 citations per document, Japan 1.10 citations per document, India 0.97.
Mathematics: China 0.63, Japan 0.53!!!, India 0.56

We also lead the US in citations on statistical physics:

SJR - International Science Ranking

And we are very close in thin films, interface physics and radiation physics:

SJR - International Science Ranking

SJR - International Science Ranking

SJR - International Science Ranking

You can't just take last years cite per doc to compare. Cause the citations increase with the years. Cumulative is probably the best way to compare.

And India has been ahead of China so far(overall).

351uvxv.png
 
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80% of your labor is involved in manufacturing low cost or copied products. Guess that's the best deal for them..



What about the slave child labors who work & die in Chinese brick kilns? I works better for them then to be killed in black jails or in rural areas..

The child labor is illegal in China, not sure about India.

Child Labour in India
 
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China develops its own high technology. General Electric and Siemens most certainly did not provide China with their patented technology to manufacture rotors for 1,000MW turbines.

Also, Huawei is a world leader in communications technology.

Rotor for 1,000MW ultra-supercritical Steam Turbine | China's Great Science and Technology

"Rotor for 1,000MW Ultra-supercritical Steam Turbine
November 9, 2011

cuDAA.jpg

China has already manufactured a 12% Chromium high-quality forged rotor for an 1,000MW USC (ultra-supercritical) steam turbine under high pressure.

China’s strategy to meet its greenhouse gas commitment is to continue full steam ahead by converting its coal-fired power plant fleet from a conventional one to an ultra-supercritical one — a move that will decrease its energy intensity from coal-generated power by more than 20 percent.

A coal-fired power plant operates by boiling water to create a high-pressure steam that drives a turbine which produces electricity by moving an electrical wire through a magnetic field.

A conventional (or subcritical) plant typically operates at temperatures up to 1,050 degrees Fahrenheit and has an efficiency of between 33 and 39 percent. Operating a plant at higher temperatures and pressures can increase its efficiency, potentially lowering emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the process.

A so-called supercritical plant operates at sufficiently high pressures and temperatures (between 1,000 and 1,075 degrees Fahrenheit) such that the water and steam become indistinguishable (the critical point of a liquid), allowing efficiency rates to reach 42 percent. An ultra-supercritical plant operates at temperatures of 1,075 degrees Fahrenheit and above and can achieve efficiencies of more than 42 percent.

China has jumped into the ultra-supercritical game with both feet. It is busy building supercritical and ultra-supercritical power plants at an astonishing rate — a whole lot faster, by the way, than we are here in the United States. And China’s ultra-supercritical power plant that went online in Yuhuan in 2006 reportedly holds the record as “the world’s cleanest, most efficient and most advanced ultra-supercritical units” with an efficiency of 46 percent.

Until now, the key high temperature equipment for supercritical and ultra-supercritical power units were mainly imported from foreign countries. China currently requires our national enterprises to domestically manufacture the key high temperature equipment. For making seamless tubes and large pipes, Chinese enterprises will be equipped with more 35MN, 60MN and one 350MN extrusion machines in the near future.

Large-scale castings for 1,000MW USC steam turbine already can be made in China. Large-scale forging have been also trial-produced. High-purity low alloy steel forging for low pressure rotor and 12% Cr high-quality forged rotor for 1,000MW USC steam turbine high pressure rotor are made in China."

----------

Huawei Unveils Industry’s First Giga DSL Prototype

oYjzq.jpg

Huawei Smart AX M5300. The Smart AX MA5300 platform has been instrumental to Huawei's success in the global DSLAM (digital subscriber line access multiplexer) market, but the MA5600 series, designed to support more bandwidth-intensive services such as triple/quad play, is the company's flagship DSLAM.

http://www.vadvert.co.uk/technology/19503-...-prototype.html

"Huawei Unveils Industry’s First Giga DSL Prototype
Mariah Lawson on 12 19, 2011

Can Achieve Access Rate of One Gbps per Twisted Pair

Shenzhen, China, Huawei, a leading global information and communications technology (ICT) provider, today announced that it successfully launched the industry’s first Giga DSL (Digital Subscriber line) prototype. The Giga DSL system employs time division duplex (TDD) to achieve a total upstream and downstream rate of 1,000 Mb/s over a single twisted pair.

In order to address obstacles related to limited bandwidth of FTTB (Fiber to the Building)/FTTC(Fiber to the Curb) and difficulty in deploying FTTH (Fiber to the Home) drop cables – so that users can enjoy bandwidth-hungry services such as IPTV and HDTV – optical fiber access points need to be located closer to users. While, 100 Mbp/s-plus ultra-broadband access can be made available relatively quickly by utilizing legacy copper line resources, providing 1,000 Mbp/s bandwidth within 100 meters of twisted pairs using DSL technology is more complex.

By using low-power spectral density in-signal transmission, Huawei’s Giga DSL prototype reduces radiation interference and power consumption, and provides a total upstream and downstream rate of one Gb/s within 100 meters, and 500 Mb/s-plus within 200 meters – making it a cost-effective option for telecom operators building ultra-broadband access networks.

Giga DSL is a next-generation access technology solution that's growing quickly. In 2011, ITU-T set up a G.fast project team dedicated to formulating new standards for ultra-speed access at short distances, the aim being to achieve 500 Mb/s access rate per twisted pair within 100 meters. Huawei has actively participated in the work of the team and has become a major technical contributor, having recently worked to incorporate TDD-OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing) as a G.fast modulation mode.

Dr. Long Guozhu, Huawei’s Principal Expert of DSL technology, said, “Huawei has taken the lead in developing a Giga DSL prototype because of our rich capabilities and industry-leading technical strengths in access networks. It was inevitable that spectrum expansion would help us improve the rate of a twisted pair at a short distance, but after the spectrum is expanded, a technical issue appears: how to design the high-speed physical layer and high-frequency analog front end (AFE). To tackle this issue, Huawei’s FBB Innovation Lab used the core solution TDD-OFDM, which simplifies the physical-layer architecture and the AFE design, while at the same time makes it possible to be downward compatible with traditional ADSL/VDSL2 technologies.”

Huawei also recently announced the successful development of the world’s first node level vectoring (NLV) prototype. Huawei’s vectoring product provides 100 Mbps access over a single twisted pair in FTTC/FTTB, and has been tested and commercially trialed with many leading telecom operators. This, along with the company’s latest prototype, Giga DSL, signifies that DSL technology still has great potential to meet the requirements of broadband users for ultra-high-speed access in the future.

Huawei’s advances within Giga DSL will enhance the capabilities of the company’s SingleFAN broadband access solution. Its SingleFAN solution and related offerings are now servicing over one third of the world’s broadband users with ultra-broadband access services."

[Note: Picture source link: http://www.n9ws.com/users/damien/tutos/degroupage.htm. Caption source link: Huawei - SmartAX MA5300 (Product Advisor) - Market Research Reports - Research and Markets.]

Designed by MHI Japan - The boilers were made and commissioned collaboratively by MHI in Japan, who provided the designs and key products, and Harbin Boiler Co. (HBC) in China. Unit 4 was constructed by MHI and HBC. MHI plans to supply above 12GW of boilers to China under the HBC collaboration. source

Run by Emerson - Emerson’s Ovation® Contributes to Commercial Operation of Yuhuan, China’s First 1000-MW Ultra-Supercritical Plant. As the first company to use ultra-supercritical boilers in China, Huaneng required superior technologies from reputable vendors to ensure successful plant startup. An advanced control strategy that could maintain ideal boiler parameters over a wide range of operating conditions was a key requirement in order for the Yuhuan plant to realize the generation efficiency and environmental benefits of the ultra- supercritical technology.
source

Designed by MHI, Japan and Operated by Emerson. That means Chinese were there just to take orders.. What exactly did they do on their own in this project?
 
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Can the mods do something about this MArtian2 guy:confused:

This is no way to debate, you can't just overwhelm everyone with irrelevant information. Its a pain in the as* to go through the thread. And the people who are quoting him, must you quote all of his post for your useless oneliners:hitwall:

He is trying to hide his shame that China has made no real contribution to any innovation for thousands of years.

They have made some incremental improvements over existing (and mostly stolen) technology, nothing more.

Not a single innovation that we use in our day to day live from the last several decades can be traced to China except cheap manufacturing using Western decades old technology.
 
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Designed by MHI Japan - The boilers were made and commissioned collaboratively by MHI in Japan, who provided the designs and key products, and Harbin Boiler Co. (HBC) in China. Unit 4 was constructed by MHI and HBC. MHI plans to supply above 12GW of boilers to China under the HBC collaboration. source

Run by Emerson - Emerson’s Ovation® Contributes to Commercial Operation of Yuhuan, China’s First 1000-MW Ultra-Supercritical Plant. As the first company to use ultra-supercritical boilers in China, Huaneng required superior technologies from reputable vendors to ensure successful plant startup. An advanced control strategy that could maintain ideal boiler parameters over a wide range of operating conditions was a key requirement in order for the Yuhuan plant to realize the generation efficiency and environmental benefits of the ultra- supercritical technology.
source

Designed by MHI, Japan and Operated by Emerson. That means Chinese were there just to take orders..

---------- Post added at 01:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------



Designed by MHI Japan - The boilers were made and commissioned collaboratively by MHI in Japan, who provided the designs and key products, and Harbin Boiler Co. (HBC) in China. Unit 4 was constructed by MHI and HBC. MHI plans to supply above 12GW of boilers to China under the HBC collaboration. source

Run by Emerson - Emerson’s Ovation® Contributes to Commercial Operation of Yuhuan, China’s First 1000-MW Ultra-Supercritical Plant. As the first company to use ultra-supercritical boilers in China, Huaneng required superior technologies from reputable vendors to ensure successful plant startup. An advanced control strategy that could maintain ideal boiler parameters over a wide range of operating conditions was a key requirement in order for the Yuhuan plant to realize the generation efficiency and environmental benefits of the ultra- supercritical technology.
source

Designed by MHI, Japan and Operated by Emerson. That means Chinese were there just to take orders..

You seem to have an English problem. "Boilers" and "rotors" are very different things. A boiler is a big pot.

A 1,000MW rotor is a super high-tech component that only GE, Siemens, and China can manufacture.
 
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