Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[ptldM3]

The T-50 "prototype" is nothing but a money grabbing tool because it lacks stealth features.

As if a knuckle head like yourself has an idea of 'stealth' features. If we take the F-15 Silent Eagle, for example, most people like yourself would shout out the top of their longs that it is not 'stealthy' yet Boeing has acknowledges that it has a frontal RCS of the F-35, small details such as treated canopy, removal of pylons, 'RAM', radar blockers, masking canon, and other small details has reduced its RCS many times over. It's one thing if an individual with knowledge in 'stealth' principles makes an observation on how low an aircraft's RCS can be, it is entirely another thing when someone that is incompetent and utterly confused about 'stealth' tries to make a definitive claim.

Yes I think the Sukhoi engineers know exactly what they are doing. They a building a plane with the only purpose of making money. I mean, if the T-50 is as good as the Russian propaganda, why is Russia trying to sell it to EVERY COUNTRY including a western ally like Korea? Is America selling any of the F-22s?

Unlike you Sukhoi is not that naive, do you think that the Russian, Air Force, Indian Air Force, or Korean Air force would not test out the pak-fa before they purchased it or at least receive some test data on the aircraft? There is also nothing wrong with trying to sell aircraft to other countries. The F-22 is not being sold because of politics, although Lockheed would love to make money off of it, but that is where the F-35 comes in. Russia and South Korea also have a good relationship, it is no surprise that Russia is offering South Korea the pak-fa, after all South Korea operates other Russian weapons and even come to Russia for training and or using the vast Russian landscape for conducting military exercises.

On the surface of it, the T-50's shaping is just, horrible. Apparently the Sukhoi engineers haven't been able to solve the engine cooling problem so they have to total expose it without a serpentine intake and a flat belly. Sukhoi is also not taking small care such as the canopy and surface material. The plane is of just pure metal frame. Yes you can say "it is just a prototype", but it is the Russians who say that this plane will enter "production" in 2015! Just 3 and half years from now! That's some amazing development span you have there. A fifth gen plane that will be inducted just 5 years after its maiden flight!

Apparently you do not keep up with the times, do a search of the pak-fa and see what the designers claim for IR. And stop with the serpentine intake nonsense, people like yourself have abused and misused that word. Serpentine intakes have been on certain Russian aircraft for decades, if it was wonder method Sukhoi would have used it, but in stead that went with a radar blocker concept, the same concept that was used on the F-117 and now the Silent Eagle albeit both aircraft use different methods with one using mesh and the other a traditional set up.

Now as for the flat belly nonsense. There is no law or design principle that says a flat belly is the only way to achieve low RCS from the bottom side of an aircraft. The flat belly fuselage is the cleanest and simplest way to evade radar. The pak-fa's intakes are sloped, and interestingly enough they are faceted much like the F-117's nose was, meaning that when EM energy hits the intakes the EM energy behaves in a complex manner.

The Su-47 design was a huge fail. The Russians never solved the many problems it had so they have to ditch it for a more primitive design like the T-50, so don't tell me that they solved all the problems and don't tell me that exposed engine vents like the T-50 has any advantage to it.

The only thing that is a huge fail is this embarrassing comment. The SU-47 was only built for testing new technology, even before the pak-fa was a concept on paper it was know that the technology and experienced gained from the SU-47 would translate into Sukhoi's next generation aircraft.

Yeah, Su-47 is so successful that not a single one of them is in service. Go do some research. The plane was a huge fail. It is not even considered safe enough to fly.

It was a technology demonstrator you knuckle head, and please do explain how it was a fail, the aircraft gave way to new technology and it did what it was designed to do. And please do elaborate how it is not safe to fly.

No country builds demonstrators just for exploration.

Wow, am i really reading this correctly? Are you that naive and ill informed?

They wanted to build the Su-47 only to find out that Russia had no capacity to build material of sufficient strength to hold the Su-47's frame.

Yet it was able to perform high G maneuvers at both subsonic and supersonic speeds, mind explaining how it achieved this without the wings snapping off? There are plenty of videos that bust your claim out of the water.

The plane was about to disintegrate in the air at the later stage of testing.

Sources? And did it disintegrate?

Also, the engine problem was never solved because AL37 was no good and they did not have S117 yet.

You do know that the engines were a part of the testing technology correct?

This is why the Ruskies gave up on the project. Just accept it, they screwed up, so now we have a T-50 which has very few of Su-47's technologies.

Jee, lets actually take the time and see what technology the SU-47 had.

-TVC engines.
-digital fly-by-wire
-weapons bays
-composite materials


All of those are on the pak-fa and all are major systems.

People had expectation that X-series and all the secret project America is doing would become reality one day.

The X series was purely for testing, aircraft such as the X-29 explored different concepts in an attempt to gain knowledge an perhaps apply that knowledge to future aircraft, just like the SU-47. So what makes you think that Sukhoi didn't have expectations that the SU-47 would yield advances that would one day be incorporated in other aircraft? The reality is that the SU-47 had many technologies that were implemented in aircraft such as the Flanker series.

 

[amalakas]

As if a knuckle head like yourself has an idea of 'stealth' features. .....................................etc etc etc

I mentioned before that a lot of people in here commit the sin of Hybris. Being Greek I cannot avoid falling back on the wisdom of my forefathers..

Hybris is commited when you believe yourself to be so much better than you really are that you begin to think you are the one and none other.


People must begin to realise that things build up slowly and you can't dismiss know how and skills of years and years, just because your eyes are pleased with some shapes and colours...


Americans build planes, russians build planes.. french build planes, sweeds build planes.. that is it!!!

every one else is just entering the football pitch when the game is already at peak time...

 

[Nestea]

J-20 8.25

 

[aimarraul]

 

[teddy]

Indian is stupid enough! they pay money to russian to develop russian steath fighter, but all tech goes into russian pocket.
It is indian helping russian indeed! Just like you growth up your children, but found out that he is not really your child. This is one of the reasons that china refuse to join the T50 project, when russian invided.
Indian never learn when they trade with russian.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I need a new avatar. Thnx.

 

[CardSharp]

Oh wow is that a photo?

Siege, I'd trim the dimensions a bit if I were you. It'd look better.

 

[kingofkings]

I thought the initially secret ( ie J 20 ) accidentally got out, But now Every possible view of it is available. It shows that it was quite intentional.

BTW kool pics.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Really ? a huge fail ? a forward swept wing supersonic heavy twin engine fighter with hypermaneuverability and supercruise??

wow.. didn't know that making a plane like that is a fail ...

Oh SHUT UP!!!!

SU-47 failed, it is nothing more than a demo!!

If SU-47 succeeded? Why the T-50 looks NOTHING like the SU-47? Instead it looks a lot like the F-22 with much inferior stealth. You can clearly see the fan blade!!!

You are just a white european, greek and I realy feel sorry for your country. A nation with collapsed encomny. You are just ENVY with the fact that China a None White country build a fighter J-20, much better than the White Russians!!

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Yeah, Su-47 is so successful that not a single one of them is in service. Go do some research. The plane was a huge fail. It is not even considered safe enough to fly.

Well said!!

Dont forget to mention Russian's T-50 looks NOTHING like the SU-47. If their crap SU-47 is soooooooooo good why not make the T-50 like it? Yet the russians shamelessly siad that they are "helping" China to build J-20. Do you know that the Russians themselves can not even build T-50 on its own and need to co-op with india[/B]. LMFAO


RUssian junk T-50 looks like a copy of F-22 with SH#T stealth. 1. Fully exposed engine fan blade which means no frontal stealth. 2. lack of single canopy, poor side stealth. 3. BIllions and Billions of rivits which also add huge RCS. 4. Last their engine is not even better than J-20's current WS-10G(WS-10g 155Kn, 117S 148KN), yet the russians still brag about their engine.

 

[below_freezing]

The US already has all the numbers on the J-20 so they're not worried. Even if it was superior to the F-22 there might be kill switches built into the J-20 to prevent it from locking onto US targets.

 

[Martian2]

I mentioned before that a lot of people in here commit the sin of Hybris. Being Greek I cannot avoid falling back on the wisdom of my forefathers..

Hybris is commited when you believe yourself to be so much better than you really are that you begin to think you are the one and none other.

People must begin to realise that things build up slowly and you can't dismiss know how and skills of years and years, just because your eyes are pleased with some shapes and colours...

Americans build planes, russians build planes.. french build planes, sweeds build planes.. that is it!!!

every one else is just entering the football pitch when the game is already at peak time...

A delusional Greek. Give me a break. At least give us a Russian (like PtldM3) or a German (living in past glory).

A trash-talking Greek is not much better than a Jamaican dissing China's space program. A citizen from a country with zero technology, zero accomplishments, and an imploding economy. I'm disappointed.

Let me know if Greece manages to conduct a spacewalk anytime in the next 10,000 years. I'm betting you can't. Until then, you should know your place and watch that big mouth of yours.

 

[S10]

The US already has all the numbers on the J-20 so they're not worried. Even if it was superior to the F-22 there might be kill switches built into the J-20 to prevent it from locking onto US targets.

Source? Or are you inventing stories again?

 

[April.lyrics]

calm down buddy.we all see what T50 doing in Moskow.it engine burned....
别给毛子雪上加霜了。。。。

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 AM ----------

calm down buddy.we all see what T50 doing in Moskow.it engine burned....
别给毛子雪上加霜了。。。。

 

[ptldM3]

Oh SHUT UP!!!!
SU-47 failed, it is nothing more than a demo!!

So how did it fail exactly? It was a technology demonstrator that explored new ideas for future implementation. Technology demonstrators are not meant to go into production--ever. For something to be considered a failure it should at least have poor performance and be extremely over priced, the SU-47 was neither. Your mission to degrade Russian aviation is pathetic, at least have some knowledge to back up your fairytale claims.

If SU-47 succeeded? Why the T-50 looks NOTHING like the SU-47? Instead it looks a lot like the F-22 with much inferior stealth. You can clearly see the fan blade!!!

you seriously have no business on this forum let alone making any kind of aviation claims with questions like that. The SU-47 was designed before the pak-fa, the whole concept of the SU-47 was to test new concepts and technologies, and in fact the SU-47 used parts from the SU-27 to save money, so of course it is not going to look anything like the pak-fa. The SU-47 was not a 'stealth' aircraft it was a test bed for future aircraft. It tested TVC engines, weapons bays, digital fly-by-wire, composite material and much more. Obviously TVC engines, weapons bay, digital fly-by-wire, and composites are all present on the pak-fa, so in fact, the pak-fa has many of the technologies that the SU-47 pioneered.

Well said!!

No not well said, knuckle head made the error of thinking that the SU-47 was intended for production when it was only a technology demonstrator. This puts you in the same league a the knuckle head.

. Last their engine is not even better than J-20's current WS-10G(WS-10g 155Kn, 117S 148KN), yet the russians still brag about their engine.

make a decent engine before making claims of 155Kn. What if i told you Russia has built a 245 Kn engine decades ago and it still remains the most powerful military jet engine today. You should also know that there is a more powerful 117 engine and thrust will increase from 15-25% without increasing size.

Lets assume that the news about the WS-10G isn't some fabricated news based off of here say from blogs and forums which is usually the case with the Chinese military, lets assume the WS-10G does produce said thrust.

What matters is size and thrust-to-weight ratio. The 117s and 117 improved thrust without increasing weight--that is extremely important because the engines trust to weight ratio increases. The larger the engine the more power it will produce based off of volume--cubic volume of air the engine can take in. One of the ways the 117s increased power was to increase the inlet diameter by about 1' inch as compared to the AL-31, but even with a 905 millimeters diameter it is still far smaller compared to the WS-10's 950 diameter but produces much more thrust, and as I said it is trust to weight ration that matters most the 117S (not the more powerful 117) has a thrust-to weight ratio of 10.5:1 compared to the original WS-10's 7.5.

Nextly factors such as a usable by-pass ratio, efficiency, time between overhauls (TBO), service life, ect...ect all play factors in how good an engine is.

High thrust engines that have low by-pass ratios will suffer from poor fuel consumption, also a high by-pass ratio engine has poor performance at high speeds but good performance at low speeds. The challenge is engineering an engine that has usable thrust through out the flight envelope. Similarly the by-pass ratio will dictate the efficiency of the engine, the by-pass ratio will also determine the operating temperature of the turbines,--cooler turbines=less IR signature. The higher by-pass ratio the cooler the turbines, the cooler the turbines the longer the engine will last--generally. So when someone claims X engine has X trust this means little if you don't understand how an engine works, it means even less if the thrust is not usable, so a low by-pass engine may give supercruise if the aircraft's drag or lack there of permits but it's low speed performance may not be very good.

Also the life of an engine and TBO's gives a good indication of just how advanced the engine is, those two features are also extremely important in terms of cost and maintenance. The 117S has a 4000 hour life and 1000 TBO, far superior to any Chinese engine.