Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

"

The J-20 is slightly longer than the F-22 at about 20 to 20.3 meters, so pretty marginal differences (please don't bring up the 23m J-20 rubbish talk all over again). I'm really not sure where you're getting the J-20's weight class from; I find it highly dubious that the J-20 is lighter than the F-35. If that were the case, I would have concerns with the materials in the J-20.


Yes you were. You flat out denied the existence of the 2021 with the WS-10X engine and attacked the credibility of the poster via Ad Hominem.

"The J-20 is slightly longer than the F-22 at about 20 to 20.3 meters,"

Wow, do your own pictures comparison, to show us, how much you think J-20 is longer than F-22. I came up the extra length, from nose to nozzle, to be 3.5-4.5m.

Notice, I did the comparison from NOSE to NOZZLE.

"


"The J-20 is slightly longer than the F-22 at about 20 to 20.3 meters,"

Wow, do your own pictures comparison, to show us, how much you think J-20 is longer than F-22. I came up the extra length, from nose to nozzle, to be 3.5-4.5m.

Notice, I did the comparison from NOSE to NOZZLE.

"I'm really not sure where you're getting the J-20's weight class from; I find it highly dubious that the J-20 is lighter than the F-35. "

Some Chinese jokers claims J-20 is only 15 tons, which is the same as F-35 and 5 tons lighter than F-22.

 

[Figaro]

"


"The J-20 is slightly longer than the F-22 at about 20 to 20.3 meters,"

Wow, do your own pictures comparison, to show us, how much you think J-20 is longer than F-22. I came up the extra length, from nose to nozzle, to be 3.5-4.5m.

Notice, I did the comparison from NOSE to NOZZLE.

Oh come on. You're implying a 23 meter J-20 obviously ... please do not bring up these useless discussions. We have seen numerous satellite photos saying otherwise. There is simply no such thing as a 23 meter J-20 as you imply ... only a 20 to 20.3 meter one.

"


"The J-20 is slightly longer than the F-22 at about 20 to 20.3 meters,"

Wow, do your own pictures comparison, to show us, how much you think J-20 is longer than F-22. I came up the extra length, from nose to nozzle, to be 3.5-4.5m.

Notice, I did the comparison from NOSE to NOZZLE.



"I'm really not sure where you're getting the J-20's weight class from; I find it highly dubious that the J-20 is lighter than the F-35. "

Some Chinese jokers claims J-20 is only 15 tons, which is the same as F-35 and 5 tons lighter than F-22.

Fanbois.

 

[Asoka]

"You flat out denied the existence of the 2021 with the WS-10X engine and attacked the credibility of the poster via Ad Hominem"

Yes, I did. I still claim the same faker faked the two previous pictures.

"Fanbois."

Yes, I am, and So is everyone here at PDF, including you @Figaro.

" (please don't bring up the 23m J-20 rubbish talk all over again)" 'There is simply no such thing as a 23 meter J-20 as you imply"

Where do I said J-20 is 23m long? That would be nearly 70 feet long. Where did this 23m nonsense came from?

Links please.

I always did the length comparison from NOSE to NOZZLE. And I found J-20 is 3.5 to 4.5m longer than F-22 in this measure.

 

[Figaro]

"You flat out denied the existence of the 2021 with the WS-10X engine and attacked the credibility of the poster via Ad Hominem"

Yes, I did. I still claim the same faker faked the two previous pictures.[/QUOT

"You flat out denied the existence of the 2021 with the WS-10X engine and attacked the credibility of the poster via Ad Hominem"

Yes, I did. I still claim the same faker faked the two previous pictures.

"Fanbois."

Yes, I am, and So is everyone here at PDF.

" (please don't bring up the 23m J-20 rubbish talk all over again)" 'There is simply no such thing as a 23 meter J-20 as you imply"

Where do I said J-20 is 23m long? That would be nearly 70 feet long. Where did this 23m nonsense came from?

Links please.

The F-22 is 18.92 meters long. You said the J-20 was 3 to 4.5 meters longer than that. Wouldn't this assumption imply a 23 meter long J-20?

 

[Asoka]

The F-22 is 18.92 meters long. You said the J-20 was 3 to 4.5 meters longer than that. Wouldn't this assumption imply a 23 meter long J-20?

Oh plz. Did you read, I mean NOSE to NOZZLE comparison, several times already?

There is a big tail stick out of F-22 that is at least 5-10 feet long. Including that will mess up the body length comparison, to determine the real size of both planes.

 

[Figaro]

Oh plz. Did you read, I mean NOSE to NOZZLE comparison, several times already?

There is a big tail stick out of F-22 that is at least 5-10 feet long. Including that will mess up the body length comparison, to determine the real size of both planes.

I'm really confused by your way of measurement ... why not just skip to the basic form?

 

[Asoka]

I'm really confused by your way of measurement ... why not just skip to the basic form?

I find NOSE to NOZZLE more meaningful, if we were to determine relative length of two planes, that mean exclude the Pitot tube and the long tail that extend from the rear of the plane, like the F-22. Some plane might be tailless like the French Mirage 2000 and Mig-21.

From NOSE to NOZZLE, J-20 is 21.2m long (69.6ft), and F-22 is 17m long (55.8ft). The difference is 4.2M (13.8ft). We can argue whether these pictures are accurate representations. But they seems to be pretty professionally done.

Here is the length Comparison I made back in jan, 2017, and posted on PDF.

Note, J-20's body length is at least 3.5-4.5m (11.5ft-14.8ft) longer when compared NOSE to NOZZLE to F-22, excluding the pitot tube of J-20 and the long tail of F-22. I also found, if we cut out the Canard section of the J-20, which has the length of 3.5m, then J-20 and F-22 are pretty much the same size.

Also note the NOSE to NOZZLE length of Su-27 (excluding the long middle tail) is 21m, which confirms the satellite image that both Su-27 and J-20 are about the same length, from NOSE to NOZZLE.

It is by incorporating the Canards that made J-20 3.5-4.5m longer than F-22. From Dr. Song's seminal paper, the designers of J-20 have determined to include the Canards in their design, from the very beginning. So, the extra length is not accidental.

Evidently, they are willing to pay for the extra weight penalty for the superior performance offered by the Canards.

From this body length difference, I concluded J-20 is at least 2 tons heavier than F-22.

 

[Figaro]

I find NOSE to NOZZLE more meaningful, if we were to determine relative length of two planes, that mean exclude the Pitot tube and the long tail that extend from the rear of the plane, like the F-22. Some plane might be tailless like the French Mirage 2000 and Mig-21. View attachment 426308

From NOSE to NOZZLE, J-20 is 21.2m long, and F-22 is 17m long. The difference is 4.2M. We can argue whether these pictures are accurate representations. But they seems to be pretty professionally done.

Here is the length Comparison I made back in jan, 2017, and posted on PDF.

View attachment 426309

Note, J-20's body length is at least 3.5-4.5m longer when compared NOSE to NOZZLE to F-22, excluding the pitot tube of J-20 and the long tail of F-22. I also found, if we cut out the Canard section of the J-20, which has the length of 3.5, then J-20 and F-22 are pretty much the same size.

It is by incorporating the Canards that made J-20 3.5-4.5m longer than F-22. From Dr. Song's seminal paper, the designers of J-20 have determined to include the Canards in their design, from the very beginning. So, the extra length is not accidental.

Evidently, they are willing to pay for the extra weight penalty for the superior performance offered by the Canards.

From this body length difference, I concluded J-20 is at least 2 tons heavier than F-22.

That is an incorrect graph first of all. It heavily overstates the J-20's actual length and contradicts the various satellite images we've gotten. The reason for the extra length doesn't really have anything to do with the canards, it was mainly there for more fuel capacity and lesser supersonic/transonic drag.

 

[khanasifm]

Here it is: ... strange that I with my inability to read Chinese can find it easier than You.

http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1881879-1-1.html




Why Indian ??

https://www.google.com/search?q=asoka&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

 

[Asoka]

That is an incorrect graph first of all. It heavily overstates the J-20's actual length and contradicts the various satellite images we've gotten. The reason for the extra length doesn't really have anything to do with the canards, it was mainly there for more fuel capacity and lesser supersonic/transonic drag.

Do your own comparison and use real pictures to overlaid them on top of each other, NOSE to NOZZLE, and get a rough sense of their sizes.

I came up with a difference of 3.5m to 4.5m. I always prefer to use the lower bound 3.5m, so as to be conservative, in my estimate.

Bill Sweetman, Senior Editor of Aviation Week, did his own body length comparison and came up with the difference of 9.5ft (2.97m) longer for J-20. I am not sure he excluded F-22's long tail or not.

This clearly confirms everybody's first impression that J-20 is much longer and larger than F-22.

"It heavily overstates the J-20's actual length and contradicts the various satellite images we've gotten."

I disagreed that J-20's actual length is heavily overstated. If you look at the Su-27 on the left of the picture, I uploaded previously, it shows both Su-27 and J-20 has the same Nose to Nozzle length of 21m.

This confirm picture comparison that shows them to be about the same length.

"various satellite images" also use indirect length comparisons, not actual measurements.

"The reason for the extra length doesn't really have anything to do with the canards, it was mainly there for more fuel capacity and lesser supersonic/transonic drag"

The need to place the canards, at a distance fairly far away, from the main wing (to minimize supersonic drag), makes the body extra long, and allow "for more fuel capacity and lesser supersonic/transonic drag"

You are right.

 

[Figaro]

Do your own comparison and use real pictures to overlaid them on top of each other, NOSE to NOZZLE, and get a rough sense of their sizes.

I came up with a difference of 3.5m to 4.5m. I always prefer to use the lower bound 3.5m, so as to be conservative, in my estimate.

Bill Sweetman, Senior Editor of Aviation Week, did his own body length comparison and came up with the difference of 9.5ft (2.97m) longer for J-20. I am not sure he excluded F-22's long tail or not.

This clearly confirms everybody's first impression that J-20 is much longer and larger than F-22.

"various satellite images" also use indirect length comparisons, not actual measurements.

"The reason for the extra length doesn't really have anything to do with the canards, it was mainly there for more fuel capacity and lesser supersonic/transonic drag"

The need to place the canards, at a distance fairly far away, from the main wing (to minimize supersonic drag), makes the body extra long, and allow "for more fuel capacity and lesser supersonic/transonic drag"

You are right.

I'm telling you that the J-20 is around 20 to 20.3 meters ...
https://chinapower.csis.org/china-chengdu-j-20/. The fact is that the J-20 is only about a meter longer than the F-22, if we use similar measurements for both jets. Why deviate form the standard length ???? Ask @Deino, he's also heard way too much of this 23 meter J-20 BS talk.

 

[grey boy 2]

Guys, this may be some great news from big shrimps, this maybe what the exhaust nozzle of J-20 looks like next (F-22 type?)

One interesting comment: 这是发动机收敛片（无矢量或者三元矢量）的一部分还是娘娘那种的二元矢量？

 

[Asoka]

I'm telling you that the J-20 is around 20 to 20.3 meters ...
https://chinapower.csis.org/china-chengdu-j-20/. The fact is that the J-20 is only about a meter longer than the F-22, if we use similar measurements for both jets. Why deviate form the standard length ???? Ask @Deino, he's also heard way too much of this 23 meter J-20 BS talk.

"I'm telling you that the J-20 is around 20 to 20.3 meters ..."

I am telling you from my comparison, J-20's length from NOSE to NOZZLE is 21m.

Many people did their own estimates, I don't know how each one did their calculations. I urge you to do your own, and then we talk. Quoting someone else's figure, without knowing how they did it, is a waste of time.

"Why deviate form the standard length ???? "

You don't like my way of length comparison? That's too bad. As I have said, not everyplane has pitot tube at the front or tails sticking at the back. Include them, mess up the body length comparison.

"Ask @Deino, he's also heard way too much of this 23 meter J-20 BS talk."

I have never heard of this J-20 is 23m long, in my life, until you mentioned.

For the record, I never claimed J-20 is 23m long. I always claimed J-20 is 3.5m-4.5m longer than F-22, from NOSE to NOZZLE.

 

[Figaro]

Guys, this may be some great news from big shrimps, this maybe what the exhaust nozzle of J-20 looks like next (F-22 type?)

One interesting comment: 这是发动机收敛片（无矢量或者三元矢量）的一部分还是娘娘那种的二元矢量？

WS-15 in 2019 . What kind of Big Shrimp is he?

 

[Figaro]

"I'm telling you that the J-20 is around 20 to 20.3 meters ..."

I am telling you from my comparison, J-20's length from NOSE to NOZZLE is 21m.

Many people did their own estimates, I don't know how each one did their calculations. I urge you to do your own, and then we talk. Quoting someone else's figure, without knowing how they did it, is a waste of time.

"Why deviate form the standard length ???? "

You don't like my way of length comparison? That's too bad. As I have said, not everyplane has pitot tube at the front or tails sticking at the back. Include them, mess up the body length comparison.

"Ask @Deino, he's also heard way too much of this 23 meter J-20 BS talk."

I have never heard of this J-20 is 23m long, in my life, until you mentioned.

For the record, I never claimed J-20 is 23m long. I always claimed J-20 is 3.5m-4.5m longer than F-22, from NOSE to NOZZLE.

Oh come on. Why don't you just accept that according to the same measurement, the J-20 is around 20 meters and the F-22 is 18.92 meters. Why are you using this weird measurement system which obviously is incorrect? The fact is the F-22 and J-20 are similar in size, not the 3.5-4.5 meter differentiation as you suggest for whatever reason.

BTW, the J-20 is proven to be dimensionally larger than the F-22, and the empty weight of approximately same as the F-22 is already a big improvement.

I also think the claim about the 15 tons empty weight doesn't sound very credible. Yes, the J-20 can have more advanced composite materials than the F-22 since it is more than a decade later, but to reduce to 15 tons sounds too far-fetched to be believable.

If it was only 15 tonnes, I would be concerned with the structural viability of its materials.