Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

But why then was I able to find it ???

i said, the title was mislabeled, and i didn't click the post.

i said, the title was mislabeled, and i didn't click the post.

you couldn;t read chinese, so you probably clicked it anyway, i guess.

 

[Asoka]

BTW, the J-20 is proven to be dimensionally larger than the F-22, and the empty weight of approximately same as the F-22 is already a big improvement.

I also think the claim about the 15 tons empty weight doesn't sound very credible. Yes, the J-20 can have more advanced composite materials than the F-22 since it is more than a decade later, but to reduce to 15 tons sounds too far-fetched to be believable.

Yes, a 15 tons J-20 sounds silly. it would weight the same as the F-35.

BTW, the J-20 is proven to be dimensionally larger than the F-22, and the empty weight of approximately same as the F-22 is already a big improvement.

I also think the claim about the 15 tons empty weight doesn't sound very credible. Yes, the J-20 can have more advanced composite materials than the F-22 since it is more than a decade later, but to reduce to 15 tons sounds too far-fetched to be believable.

If anyone thinks J-20 is 5 tons lighter than F-22, despite its 3.5m-4.5m longer than it, and J-20 is the same weight as F-35, which is much smaller, then he is crazy, or simply have no idea what he is talking about.

Thanks for your enthusiastic moral support, @hirobo2.

Well said by dianzhewudi, from CjDb

"一个是跟F-22比，J-20的重量低不了。

再一个是战斗机重量跟机动性和最大起飞重量挂钩。机动性越强，挂载能力越强，内油量越高，战斗机的结构强度要求就越高，重量自然更大。在结构设计理念和工艺技术没有重大更新的前提下，拥有相同机动性，相似挂在能力的战斗机空重不会有太大差别。

除非你承认J-20的机动性很差，挂在能力不强，内油含量也不高。空重是有可能做到这么轻的。"

 

[j20blackdragon]

View attachment 426123

View attachment 426124

Yellow primer and red numbers would suggest to me that this J-20 #2021 is the first production aircraft and NOT a prototype or tech demonstrator.

Examples below.

J-10B #101...yellow primer and red numbers.
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2013/12/j-10b-production-variants-101-and-103.html

J-20 #2101...yellow primer and red numbers.

That means we have (two?) options:

1. They did not flight test the WS-10X at all and moved straight to production...

2. They flight tested the WS-10X in secret for years and did not show you.

Which option would you prefer?

I don't think this situation is as obvious as people think it is.

 

[Deino]

So yellow is for you a hint of being a serial bird?
What about the most obvious option 3 by looking at its number?

201x are the first serial prototypes ... And so is 2021 a prototype for the second model, nothing more nothing less.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Yellow primer and red numbers would suggest to me that this J-20 #2021 is the first production aircraft and NOT a prototype or tech demonstrator.

Examples below.

J-10B #101...yellow primer and red numbers.
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2013/12/j-10b-production-variants-101-and-103.html

J-20 #2101...yellow primer and red numbers.

That means we have (two?) options:

1. They did not flight test the WS-10X at all and moved straight to production...

2. They flight tested the WS-10X in secret for years and did not show you.

Which option would you prefer?

I don't think this situation is as obvious as people think it is.

Nevermind, the oldest J-10B prototypes also appeared in yellow primer with red numbers.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Early prototype aircraft will usually have a very noticeable pitot tube sticking out the front of the radome in order to place important sensors in undisturbed airflow.

We shall see (with clearer pictures later on) if this #2021 have the same features.

If this is indeed a prototype designed to test a new engine, it should be the same.

So far, I see no pitot tube.

You also have to admit that all previous J-20 prototypes appeared fully painted. Never in yellow primer. We shall see.

 

[Deino]

Early prototype aircraft will usually have a very noticeable pitot tube sticking out the front of the radome in order to place important sensors in undisturbed airflow.
View attachment 426276

We shall see (with clearer pictures later on) if this #2021 have the same features.

If this is indeed a prototype designed to test a new engine, it should be the same.

So far, I see no pitot tube.

You also have to admit that all previous J-20 prototypes appeared fully painted. Never in yellow primer. We shall see.

Agreed, but IMO the serial number alone tells us more than a yellow colour (each aircraft rolling off the line is or was once yellow in primer) or a missing pitot (maybe the J-20 is now matured enough so that they just left it? ... no. 03 J-10B also had no pitot)

Also since all Your other explanations simply omit why it has a CAC-typical prototype serial number?

Deino

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The J-20 got 20 tonnes empty and 40 tonnes takeoff.

These figures seem to be more realistic to me.

 

[Asoka]

The J-20 got 20 tonnes empty and 40 tonnes takeoff.

These figures seem to be more realistic to me.

It would be absolutely amazing that:

1.) J-20 is 3.5-4.5m longer than F-22.

2.) But J-20 weighs the same as F-22 at 20 tons.

3.) J-20 is able to carry 12 tons internal fuels, which is 40% more than F-22's 8 tons.

4.) And able to carry 8 tons (4 tanks) more fuels externally, vs 2 external tanks for F-22.

5.) J-20 have the same structural strength to last over 8,000 hrs, as F-22.

6.) J-20 could pull Max. 9G, and able to pull 6.5G at Mach 1.5.

7.) J-20 could achieve the same weight with 20% Titanium, 25% composite material, vs f-22's 40% Ti, and 29% composite material.

The rest are presumed to be Steel and Aluminum for both planes.

8.) With 3 tons of internally carried weapons, (and possibly several more tons of externally carried weapons) that would put J-20's maximum take off weight to be 20 + 12 + 8 + 3 = 43 tons. vs F-22's 38 tons maximum take off weight.

9.) And J-20 could carry all that extra 5 tons weight, with same the empty weight of 20 tons, and being 3.5-4.5m longer.

10.) Not all of the 20 tons empty weight will be used for structural support.

If we assume half of that is used for radar, avionics, landing gears, pilot's seat, and life support, miles and miles of internal wirings and tubes, and two engines, only 10 tons will be available for structural support. And this 10 tons must be able to keep a fully loaded 43+ tons plane at max. 9G, cruise at mach 1.5 and able to pull 6.5G at that speed, and in service for 8,000 hrs or 30 years.

Simply incredible and utterly unbelievable.

I won't believe this nonsense for a second.

Who could believe this sh*t?

 

[j20blackdragon]

Look at the J-10B prototype numbering sequence...

1031

1033

1034

1035 (with WS-10), appeared in 2011.

All prototypes showed up prior to production in 2013, and the numbering sequence all stayed in the 1030s.

But for the J-20...

#2017: Last (AL-31?) prototype. November 2015.

#2101: (AL-31?) LRIP. December 2015.

#2021: First (WS-10X?) prototype? September 2017?!

Why the number skip? Why did the (WS-10X?) show up so late?

 

[Figaro]

@Asoka. See, I told you to wait a little longer ... Instead of dismissing it as a crappy PS on first sight, next time you should be a little more patient and less ridiculing. Anyways, this is IMO the biggest J-20 development since prototype 2011 back in February 2014. A great day for J-20 watchers!

Indo china dicking contest ?? Move on

Why Indian? If anything, this is a three way "dicking contest" between the United States, China, and Russia. India is merely piggy-backing off their Russian counterparts as they do with every single defense project.

 

[Asoka]

@Asoka. See, I told you to wait a little longer ... Instead of dismissing it as a crappy PS on first sight, next time you should be a little more patient and less ridiculing. Anyways, this is IMO the biggest J-20 development since prototype 2011 back in February 2014. A great day for J-20 watchers!

What are you trying to say? The engines nozzles of today's pictures, are too blurry to determine anything. I still believe the first two pictures are fakes by the same faker.

 

[Figaro]

What are you trying to say? The engines nozzles are too blurry to determine anything. I still believe the first two pictures are fakes by the same faker.

... you tried to deny the existence of 2021. Now you're trying to deny the existence of WS-10X engines on 2021. Sure we can wait for less blurry pictures, but you know that they will come out at some point ... and you'll be wrong again.

 

[Asoka]

... you tried to deny the existence of 2021. Now you're trying to deny the existence of WS-10X engines on 2021. Sure we can wait for less blurry pictures, but you know that they will come out at some point ... and you'll be wrong again.

I still contend there is no WS-10x on J-20, that can see, for sure. 2021 pictures are still too blurry to rule out they might be fakes like the previous two picture.

"you'll be wrong again"

I wasn't wrong in the first place.

 

[Figaro]

Yes, a 15 tons J-20 sounds silly. it would weight the same as the F-35.




If anyone thinks J-20 is 5 tons lighter than F-22, despite its 3.5m-4.5m longer than it, and J-20 is the same weight as F-35, which is much smaller, then he is crazy, or simply have no idea what he is talking about.View attachment 426233

View attachment 426232

Thanks for your enthusiastic moral support, @hirobo2.

Well said by dianzhewudi, from CjDb

"一个是跟F-22比，J-20的重量低不了。

再一个是战斗机重量跟机动性和最大起飞重量挂钩。机动性越强，挂载能力越强，内油量越高，战斗机的结构强度要求就越高，重量自然更大。在结构设计理念和工艺技术没有重大更新的前提下，拥有相同机动性，相似挂在能力的战斗机空重不会有太大差别。

除非你承认J-20的机动性很差，挂在能力不强，内油含量也不高。空重是有可能做到这么轻的。"

The J-20 is slightly longer than the F-22 at about 20 to 20.3 meters, so pretty marginal differences (please don't bring up the 23m J-20 rubbish talk all over again). I'm really not sure where you're getting the J-20's weight class from; I find it highly dubious that the J-20 is lighter than the F-35. If that were the case, I would have concerns with the materials in the J-20.

I still contend there is no WS-10x on J-20, that can see, for sure. 2021 pictures are still too blurry to rule out they might be fakes like the previous two picture.

"you'll be wrong again"

I wasn't wrong in the first place.

Yes you were. You flat out denied the existence of the 2021 with the WS-10X engine and attacked the credibility of the poster via Ad Hominem. Next time, please be a little more discreet ... thanks.