Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Deino]

Yes, I did. And I still do, Sir.

@Asoka is a bit too optimistic with his projections.

210kN is actually a conservative figure, which was reached by the F135 engine, back in the early 1990's. The P&W website listed F135 as a 190kN class engine, not its actual thrust figure. No need to be totally honest, here. Just a ball park figure.

If they have understated its thrust by just 10%, that would put its actual thrust over 210kN.

No doubt, the Americans have more powerful engines (TWR 12-15) for their 6-Gen. fighter by now.

I am afraid to reveal the max. Thrust figure, that is actually in my mind. I have already been warned, privately, and for several times, not to reveal too much details of current Chinese Aviation technologies to Westerners.

I don't want to get in trouble with the Chinese State Security. It takes nothing to find out who I am.

It is no secret that the Chinese Internet is extensively policed by the Chinese Government.

There is no doubt, that they are also monitoring closely, all the International Internet Forums, including PDF, SDF and many others, frequented by the Chinese users, to prevent leaking of state secrets.

You are crazy and desperate. Seems indeed as if your son is robbing you too much sleep so that you cannot think clearly anymore.

The debate is over. All use an AL-31 of some sort and the WS-10B will be used soon. The first image is real and no debate necessary to argue. There is also no WS-15 for years to come .... Just leave that BS.


By the way Guys, you are crazy again and sine we are again with even more ridiculous claims in the engine duscussion I close this thread.

We have a dedicated engine & J-20 thread to keep this one clean from too much speculating.

So take this as a warning. Thread closed until new evidence is presented.

Deino

 

[Deino]

Thread re-opened again ... but please keep the J-20-thread clean from engine-related discussions.

Deino

 

[cirr]

Thread re-opened again ... but please keep the J-20-thread clean from engine-related discussions.

Deino

 

[Deino]

View attachment 426123

View attachment 426124

@ChineseTiger1986

Are You at least a bit more relieved right now?

Oh, oh ... poor @Asoka !!

You failed once again. First Your ridiculous WS-15/+210kN-claim, then Your alleged attempts to discredit trusted members and to twist words with PS-job...
And now You are proven wrong again.
Time to reconsider Your analytical abilities.

Deino

 

[leapx]

Did anyone already post this ？
曹春晓：先进战斗机歼20和歼31是怎么炼成的
http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2017-09-15/doc-ifykynia7360605.shtml

Brief：A member of Academic Divisions of the Chinese Academy of science revealed what material is used on J-20&J31
J-20: 20% titanium,29% composite
J-31: 25% titanium

 

[52051]

According to this, J-20's empty weight is only at 15-ton level, much lighter than that of F-22 (19.7 ton).

https://www.sohu.com/a/164298193_759857

The author of this article is a PhD in stealth tech of aircraft from northwest tech university from Xian.

He explain the reason why J-20 is so much lighter than F-22 is because advanced manufacturing process like 3D-printing/electoric-magnative-constrained shaping etc, were used to make J-20 require considerably lighter structure to afford similiar structural strength.

 

[leapx]

According to this, J-20's empty weight is only at 15-ton level, much lighter than that of F-22 (19.7 ton).

https://www.sohu.com/a/164298193_759857

The author of this article is a PhD in stealth tech of aircraft from northwest tech university from Xian.

He explain the reason why J-20 is so much lighter than F-22 is because advanced manufacturing process like 3D-printing/electoric-magnative-constrained shaping etc, were used to make J-20 require considerably lighter structure to afford similiar structural strength.

Is there any reliable source to confirm the empty weight？

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

@ChineseTiger1986

Are You at least a bit more relieved right now?

Oh, oh ... poor @Asoka !!

You failed once again. First Your ridiculous WS-15/+210kN-claim, then Your alleged attempts to discredit trusted members and to twist words with PS-job...
And now You are proven wrong again.
Time to reconsider Your analytical abilities.

Deino

I am waiting to see the engine nozzle in close detail.

So far the engine doesn't look like the jagged one we have seen in the blurred pic. Maybe the CD forum is telling the half truth.

 

[Deino]

I am waiting to see the engine nozzle in close detail.

So far the engine doesn't look like the jagged one we have seen in the blurred pic. Maybe the CD forum is telling the half truth.

Agreed, only clearer close-up images will finally solve this mystery, but this nozzle is 100% for sure NOT an AL-31 and IMO indeed a WS-10... however too see if it has the zig-zag-nozzles it is to blurred.

...

I just noted, these images are named "J-20T" ... why J-20T and for what is the T standing ??

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

BTW, the J-20 is proven to be dimensionally larger than the F-22, and the empty weight of approximately same as the F-22 is already a big improvement.

I also think the claim about the 15 tons empty weight doesn't sound very credible. Yes, the J-20 can have more advanced composite materials than the F-22 since it is more than a decade later, but to reduce to 15 tons sounds too far-fetched to be believable.

 

[Asoka]

"It was our own @cirr who posted this image here just scroll up (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-625#post-9873466),

again a more than respected member or do You want to accuse him too being a faker??"

There is a stamp on the picture, saying its from http://www.fyjs.cn/. I am trying to find it there.

Thanks!

"again a more than respected member or do You want to accuse him too being a faker??""

if @cirr found it on http://www.fyjs.cn, obviously, he didn't post it first. He is not the originator.

Did anyone already post this ？
曹春晓：先进战斗机歼20和歼31是怎么炼成的
http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2017-09-15/doc-ifykynia7360605.shtml

Brief：A member of Academic Divisions of the Chinese Academy of science revealed what material is used on J-20&J31
J-20: 20% titanium,29% composite
J-31: 25% titanium

That sounds right, from a leading expert on Aviation Structural Material.

 

[khanasifm]

Indo china dicking contest ?? Move on

 

[Deino]

"It was our own @cirr who posted this image here just scroll up (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-625#post-9873466),

again a more than respected member or do You want to accuse him too being a faker??"

There is a stamp on the picture, saying its from http://www.fyjs.cn/. I am trying to find it there.

Thanks!

"again a more than respected member or do You want to accuse him too being a faker??""

if @cirr found it on http://www.fyjs.cn, obviously, he didn't post it first. He is not the originator.




That sounds right, from a leading expert on Aviation Structural Material.

Here it is: ... strange that I with my inability to read Chinese can find it easier than You.

http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1881879-1-1.html

Indo china dicking contest ?? Move on

Why Indian ??

 

[Asoka]

BTW, the J-20 is proven to be dimensionally larger than the F-22, and the empty weight of approximately same as the F-22 is already a big improvement.

I also think the claim about the 15 tons empty weight doesn't sound very credible. Yes, the J-20 can have more advanced composite materials than the F-22 since it is more than a decade later, but to reduce to 15 tons sounds too far-fetched to be believable.

"Yes, the J-20 can have more advanced composite materials than the F-22 since it is more than a decade later"

曹春晓：先进战斗机歼20和歼31是怎么炼成的
http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2017-09-15/doc-ifykynia7360605.shtml

According to the article by China's leading expert on Aviation Structural Material, China is actually behind on Titanium alloy technology and uses only 20% of Ti on J-20, vs 40% on F-22.

"我们歼8用钛很少是2%，歼10用钛4%，歼11用到15%，歼20用到20%，歼31用到25%，也算比较多。"

And J-20 uses 29% of composite materials, about the same as F-22's 24%.

"Traditional aircraft materials such as aluminum and steel make up about 1/5 of the F-22's structure by weight. The high performance capabilities of the F-22 requires the significant use of titanium (42 % of all structural materials by weight) and composite materials (24 % by weight)"

我们国家复合材料在歼击机用的还可以，但还是需要不断再发展。我们歼20用到了29%。

So it can not be said from the opinions of China's leading expert, that China is more advance than US in Aviation Structural materials.

Actually, according to him, China is quite behind in the use of Titanium.

Here it is: ... strange that I with my inability to read Chinese can find it easier than You.

http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1881879-1-1.html




Why Indian ??

The title of the post is labeled "渣图，对付着看，也算是纪念九一八了", which has nothing to do with J-20. That's why I didn't take a look inside.

Thanks!

 

[Deino]

The title of the post is labeled "渣图，对付着看，也算是纪念九一八了", which has nothing to do with J-20. That's why I didn't take a look inside.

Thanks!

But why then was I able to find it ???