Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

Give us the source that China started preliminary research work on WS-15 and get yak-141 engine and blue print in 80s your baseles and clueless posts worth nothing without prove, you live in your fantasy world and wishful thinking and as for your information WS-10 project started in late 80s with the project of J-10, fighter jets is designed around the jet engine instead jet engine designed around the fighter jets

My friend, You are asking help from me. You could have asked nicely. Poor manner reflects badly on your self and on your country. You are from Pakistan. It pains me to see someone from our friend and brother country, Pakistan, don't treat me with respect.

https://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpress.com/tag/ws-15-engine/

"According to a Russian military website, in 1996, China obtained from Russia the technology and a sample of R-79-300 engine developed for Yak-141 VTOL fighter jet, a project that Russia had to give up for lack of funds at that time.

Surprisingly, China has used R-79-300’s technology in successful development of its own WS-15 series of turbofans."

These articles in Chinese talks about the negotiations, and how China brought the Yak 141 and blueprints. You can do a machine translation of them, if you can't read Chinese.

https://kknews.cc/military/k4z3q.html
https://kknews.cc/military/kz8en5q.html
https://kknews.cc/military/yae64gg.html

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5387c42f0102xjuz.html

"七五规划：1986-1990 ---》八五规划：1991-1995---》九五规划： 1996-2000 ---》 十五规划： 2001-2005---》十一五规划： 2006-2010---》十二五规划：2011-2015

7-5规划/ 8-5规划/9-5规划期是预先研究，基础研究及核心机预研---》 10-5规划主攻核心机----》 11-5规划核心机-高空台通过测试---》 12-5规划工程机高空台测试，测试顺利否，绕过第三方飞行平台测试（伊尔76飞行台等）直接通过歼20飞行台测试成功。"

Specifically, this says, during the 7th 5 years plan (1986-1990) (planning, preliminary researches), 8th 5 years plan 1991-1995 (planning, preliminary researches) 9th 5 years plan 1996-2000(planning, preliminary researches and engine core researches), 10th 5 years plan 2000-2005(planning, focus on engine core), 11th 5 years plan 2005-2010 ( engine core pass bench test), 12th 5 years plan (2010-2015), if bench testes were successful, skip testing on third party platforms, and directly install on J-20 for testing , , ,

The fact, that all went according, to this plan, amazed the hell out of me. There was no mentions of the heinous difficulty encountered by Ws-10.

 

[Ultima Thule]

My friend, You are asking help from me. You could have asked nicely. Poor manner reflects badly on your self and on your country.

https://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpress.com/tag/ws-15-engine/

"According to a Russian military website, in 1996, China obtained from Russia the technology and a sample of R-79-300 engine developed for Yak-141 VTOL fighter jet, a project that Russia had to give up for lack of funds at that time.

Surprisingly, China has used R-79-300’s technology in successful development of its own WS-15 series of turbofans."

These are in Chinese. You can do a machine translation of them, if you can't read Chinese.

https://kknews.cc/military/k4z3q.html
https://kknews.cc/military/kz8en5q.html
https://kknews.cc/military/yae64gg.html

You're saying you were gets R-79 in late 80s and now you're saying you were get R-79 in 96 after the fall of the Soviet Union and WS-15 project started after if you gets R-79 from Russian that's all I want to say, WS-15 project started in late 90s not in late 80s too much superstition is bad for your health, you're contridic yourself Mr @Asok

 

[Asoka]

You're saying you were gets R-79 in late 80s and now you're saying you were get R-79 in 96 after the fall of the Soviet Union and WS-15 project started after if you gets R-79 from Russian that's all I want to say, WS-15 project started in late 90s not in late 80s too much superstition is bad for your health, you're contridic yourself Mr @Asok

I didn't said R-79 was purchased in 1980's. China and USSR wasn't in friendly term till after the collapse of USSR in 1991.

"WS-15 project started after if you gets R-79 from Russian that's all I want to say"

Preliminary researches started in 1980's, and Ws-15 formally started in high gear in 1995, that is what I am trying say. Whether that's before or after R-79 was obtained. you can read the posts i listed.

"you're contridic yourself Mr Asok"

I am merely trying to show you WS-15, started way before J-20, was even conceived, in 1999, and how R-79 was indeed obtained by China in 1995, by giving you all the links, you asked for.

And you are not being very grateful. At least show some good manners, and say "thanks", please. It makes the interactions easier and far more pleasant.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I didn't said R-79 was purchased in 1980's. China and USSR wasn't in friendly term till after the collapse of USSR in 1991.

"WS-15 project started after if you gets R-79 from Russian that's all I want to say"

Preliminary researches started in 1980's, and Ws-15 formally started in high gear in 1995, that is what I am trying say. Whether that's before or after R-79 was obtained. you can read the posts i listed.

Nice urban legend type sites you havehave as i told you jet fighter is designed around the jet engine instead jet engine is designed around the jet fighter are you have a comprehension problem Mr @Asok

 

[Asoka]

"i told you jet fighter, is designed around the jet engine, instead, jet engine is designed around the jet fighter"

Are you saying develop the airframe first, then the engine, later?

Tell that to the Indians. The Indians are developing their HAL Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation fighter aircraft.

Tell them don't do it like the American, Russian and Chinese, like the way they did F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35, Su-27, Su-30, Su-57 and J-20.

Tell them don't bother to start the engine, years ahead, first. Tell them they could start the engine and air-frame, at the same time. Or after the air-frame was developed.

And see how far they will get, and see if they will keep their schedule.

Thats's what China did with J-9. It was a total disaster that ended in cancellation. J-10 was, saved only, because the Russians, was willing to supply, the excellent AL-31 engine to China.

 

[Figaro]

"i told you jet fighter, is designed around the jet engine, instead, jet engine is designed around the jet fighter"

Tell that to the Indians. The Indians are developing their HAL Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation fighter aircraft.

Tell them don't do it like the American, Russian and Chinese, like the way they did F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35, Su-27, Su-30, Su-57 and J-20.

Tell them don't bother to start the engine, years ahead, first. Tell them they could start the engine and air-frame, at the same time.

And see how far they will get, and see if they will keep their schedule.

Please don't interject India into the conversation and throw flaim bait. India is merely piggy-backing off Russia's T-50 (or FGFA) and look where it got them. The AMCA is a wet dream ... it is impossible unless Russia is willing to transfer a bunch of classified T-50 technologies to India which would undermine its own defense. And don't even get me started on the Kaveri engine ...

 

[Asoka]

Please don't interject India into the conversation and throw flaim bait. India is merely piggy-backing off Russia's T-50 (or FGFA) and look where it got them. The AMCA is a wet dream ... it is impossible unless Russia is willing to transfer a bunch of classified T-50 technologies to India which would undermine its own defense. And don't even get me started on the Kaveri engine ...

OK, Bro. I think AMCA was wet dream too. There was no engine to go with it.

 

[Figaro]

OK, Bro. I think AMCA was wet dream too. There was no engine to go with it.

Then why you compare J-20 to an nonexistent jet ... you're giving legitimacy to an non-existent fighter

 

[Ultima Thule]

The WS-15 is gonna be incorporated into the J-20 before 2019-2020. Its almost ready for transfer to IL-76 testbed.

bro this news is 1 year old its already testing on IL-76 testbed as per Chinese senior memebers here on PDF

And what engine is J-20 flying right now?

W-10X as the @Beast and @wanglaokan said earlier on this thread Mr insane @Asok

 

[Figaro]

bro this news is 1 year old its already testing on IL-76 testbed as per Chinese senior memebers here on PDF


W-10X as the @Beast and @wanglaokan said earlier on this thread

Even better then

 

[Ultima Thule]

And what engine is J-20 flying right now?

"PAK-FA example is front of you, if PAK-FA can fly with a Interim engine, so why not J-20?"

J-20 certainly could fly with an interim engine first. I have already suggested J-20 was flying with a prototype engine, with a WS-15 engine core, and other technologies from WS-10 and AL-31, since 2011.

Now it is flying with a production WS-15, since around 2014-2015.

What is the name of this prototype engine, I am not certain, it could be designated as WS-10b or WS-10X, I really don't know.

What I am certain is that if this engine was designated as WS-10b, I am certain it's NOT made of WS-10a's core.

Because, this does not further WS-15 core testing, in any way.

What the WS-15 designers needs are, first hand data, from flying the engine core, in a real plane, not just simulated data.

So they could compare the actual data, with the simulated data, to see if they fit.

If not they must find out why, and make modifications.

What nonsense you have first you post WS-15 was installed on J-20 from the day one and then you have a this CRAPY false assertions and wishful thinking again with no prove, how can you directly put high risk extremely new engine to your sensitive stealth jet, to reduce the risk WS-15 will be air testing on other plate form instead directly putting WS-15 on J-20, even USA and russia can't put their new engines on there new airframes without extensive air testing on other aircrafts, I am reporting you for your baseless and clueless debates

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I seriously doubt that China is spending 600 billion dollars on their military. The best estimate is around 220 billion accounted for PPP or not; the PLA typically does not strictly base the budget out of a "percentage" of China's economy but in accordance with their own needs (and economic growth).

The 600 billion is the US figure, which is also probably higher in actuality. The 220 billion SIPRI estimate is at market exchange rates, but since the overwhelming majority of that is spent domestically, the PPP rate should be quoted. If that's done, it puts the figure at above 400 billion, i.e., two-thirds of US spending.

Furthermore, it's spent more "efficiently" since China doesn't have a sprawling network of bases around the world to maintain. A higher percentage of that money goes towards accumulating capabilities -- helped by the recent cuts to troop numbers.

 

[UKBengali]

The 600 billion is the US figure, which is also probably higher in actuality. The 220 billion SIPRI estimate is at market exchange rates, but since the overwhelming majority of that is spent domestically, the PPP rate should be quoted. If that's done, it puts the figure at above 400 billion, i.e., two-thirds of US spending.

Furthermore, it's spent more "efficiently" since China doesn't have a sprawling network of bases around the world to maintain. A higher percentage of that money goes towards accumulating capabilities -- helped by the recent cuts to troop numbers.

Why are you bothering with people who are predicting J-20 production with China's production
rate when it was much poorer and also did not have any reliable domestic engine supply?

 

[Figaro]

The 600 billion is the US figure, which is also probably higher in actuality. The 220 billion SIPRI estimate is at market exchange rates, but since the overwhelming majority of that is spent domestically, the PPP rate should be quoted. If that's done, it puts the figure at above 400 billion, i.e., two-thirds of US spending.

Furthermore, it's spent more "efficiently" since China doesn't have a sprawling network of bases around the world to maintain. A higher percentage of that money goes towards accumulating capabilities -- helped by the recent cuts to troop numbers.

China is not spending 600 billion dollars or around 4 trillion Yuan. If it was indeed, we would be seeing a massive Chinese military buildup to the likes of the former USSR. That just means China gets more bang for the buck; it can buy 600 billion dollars of equipment (at prices overseas) for just 180-200 billion because many things are cheaper in China (tbh, the 600B is probably too much).

China is not spending 600 billion dollars or around 4 trillion Yuan. If it was indeed, we would be seeing a massive Chinese military buildup to the likes of the former USSR. That just means China gets more bang for the buck; it can buy 600 billion dollars of equipment (at prices overseas) for just 180-200 billion because many things are cheaper in China (tbh, the 600B is probably too much, more like 400B).

 

[Deino]

"Even more I really question these reports concerning the WS-15 being based on the R-79; in fact an unreliable and unsuccessful engine that was a failure even in Russia."

I beg to differ, Bro.

Cancelling due to lack of funding, and cancelling due to technical failures, could be two entirely different things.

The YAK 141 was cancelled, due to lack of further funding, after USSR was collapsed. The R-79 engine continued development till 1996. The YAK 141 successfully demonstrated at Paris Airshow. It was the first VTOL aircraft with supersonic capability. Lockheed Martin even brought the tilting nozzle technology for its F-35.

Like other advanced formerUSSR technologies, the R-79 engine was put up for a fire sale, in the 1990s. It is not unconceivable, that China would be interested, in acquire such advanced technology, at a ridiculous fire sale price.

China brought the 70% finished Varyag Aircraft carrier at the incredible price of $20 millions. The Ukranians throws in all the technical documentations and blueprints for another 3 millions. China probably hired the same engineers, who worked on it, to help with refurbished the aircraft carrier.

Agreed; during these days no-one can be sure what was and what wasn't sold those years and given the close connection between Yakowlew and Hongdu for example it is not impossible that CHina also got hand on the Yak-141 and its engine.
Anyway I highly doubt that even if the R-79 was surely a powerful "beast" it is unlikely that the PLAAF's future high-thrust powerplant for the J-20 and future generation engines is based on an engine that was bench tested for the first time in 1984 ??

Deino