Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Figaro]

"I've already stated that one doesn't need to be Chinese in order to access Chinese sources. This is the 21st century"

Sure, if you say so, Figaro. You have got Bing to do the translations for you.

Your point being ... ?!? Doesn't that already contradict your bigoted argument?

 

[Asoka]

Your point being ... ?!? Doesn't that already contradict your bigoted argument?

sarcasm, my friend.

"So Chinese can read foreign documents, while the same cannot be true, vice-versa?"

As I have said, proficiency in English or other foreign languages are required in Chinese Universities. And there is a system setup to translation all major foreign languages' technical papers and books into Chinese.

Unless other countries have such system to translate Chinese technical papers and books into their own language, in that field.

Their non-chinese speaking researchers or intelligence analysts won't have access to Chinese materials, even though they are openly published, like other countries.

Your mention of using BING translation to help you understand Chinese technical papers, makes me want to laugh.

I can't even make sense of some BING translated news articles, without getting a headache.

But that's just me. There are people who could deciphers coded communications. May be you are such talented individual.

I am not trying to show off. I am merely trying to help you understand why CIA reports on China's military technology, are so wildly off target, in their predictions.

CIA predicted in 2009, that China will not have the 5 Gen. fighter before 2020, and only a few before 2025. And partly based on this prediction, Mr. Robert Gates, "happily" killed off the most formidable and fearsome, F-22, for good.

I haven't seen a bigger strategic blunder, since the end of the Cold War.

I predict, this blunder will end US's Air Superiority over the Pacific, since the end of WWII, for good.

 

[Figaro]

sarcasm, my friend.

"So Chinese can read foreign documents, while the same cannot be true, vice-versa?"

As I have said, proficiency in English or other foreign languages are required in Chinese Universities. And there is a system setup to translation all major foreign languages' technical papers and books into Chinese.

Unless other countries have such system to translate Chinese technical papers and books into their own language, in that field.

Their non-chinese speaking researchers or intelligence analysts won't have access to Chinese materials, even though they are openly published, like other countries.

Your mention of using BING translation to help you understand Chinese technical papers, makes me want to laugh.

I can't even make sense of some BING translated news articles, without getting a headache.

But that's just me. There are people who could deciphers coded communications. May be you are such talented individual.

Poorly using sarcasm given the context of this debate makes you seem ignorant. You are completely basing your argument on how only Chinese are able to analyze Chinese documents, which I have proved you wrong on many occasions. There is substantial use of translator software, third parties, and other ways of accurately translating one language to another. And you can patronize Bing or other translating software all you want, but it does sum up the gist of the document to give you a general sense of what is going on. There is no shame in doing so ... maybe from your point of view though.

 

[Asoka]

"You are completely basing your argument on, how only Chinese, are able to analyze Chinese documents, which I have proved you wrong, on many occasions."

No, you didn't. You were only active on PDF, two days ago.

 

[Figaro]

"You are completely basing your argument on, how only Chinese, are able to analyze Chinese documents, which I have proved you wrong, on many occasions."

No, you didn't. You were only active on PDF, two days ago.

I've already had more than 15 engagements with you ...

 

[Asoka]

I've already had more than 15 engagements with you ...

You have not proven me wrong, on any occasion, Zero, None, Zip, in the last two days. Your "knowledge" on J-20, WS-15 and China, in general, are laughably poor. I am sorry to say, in danger, of being rude and offensive.

 

[Ultima Thule]

"Provide me an explicit example."

I am not going to give any examples. I am shocked by your request.

"If the Chinese followed Sun Tzu's deception to the core, the PLA would be a serective monolith like the former a Soviet Union. "

Absolute secrecy means, there is no deterrence value, either. If I don't know what you got, I am not going to be afraid of you.

Weapons are used to fight wars, but more often, its used to deter wars.

It is not true that the USSR was a secretive monolith. They paraded their military and weapons, every year, in the Red Square.

"you've mentioned before that there are many Chinese documents detailing advanced weaponry, meaning the Chinese are more than willing to show off."

It is true, Chinese scientific researches are quite open, about their research results, like other countries. They are deposited in searchable databases. This is true, until a research topic was advanced enough, that they got taken over by the military and classified.

This is the same as US, and other countries.

However, the papers published in China are written in Chinese. For a foreigner to understand them, he must be in that field and fluent in Chinese. Bing translation does not work in understanding technical subject.

That is the barrier that prevents the foreign intelligences, to understand the state of Chinese scientific researches.

This is not the same for Chinese.

Chinese could read foreign papers, because English proficiency are a requirement for University. And there are dedicated translators, in every fields, to translate English, German, French, Japanese, Russians technical books and papers.

This system have been set up, since the early 1950s.

For a CIA analyst to properly understand the state of Chinese aviation, he must have a background in Aviation, like a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, and is fluent in Chinese. So he could understand what he has downloaded, like me.

There is a problem here.

A US government employee is paid around 60k-80k a year, and thats the entry salary with a degree with engineering.

If this candidate is born in China with relatives in China, he has a zero chance in obtaining a top secret clearance and work in CIA.

So where or how do you get a fluent Chinese speaker, with an Aeronautical Engineering degree to work in CIA for 60k-80k a year, to do analysis on Chinese aviation?

When I do my research, I simply downloaded every Chinese papers on J-20 and WS-15, I could find. Those papers are written by professionals for professionals, in very technical languages.

But they don't contain the project names. They were censored out. Replaced by words like "certain airplane", "certain engine". So if your search is based on those keywords, you won't find many hits. But if you search with chinese technical terms, you will find them.

I discover this "trick", after reading the articles by a non-Chinese, American College professor, who is happen to be fluent in Chinese, and thus able to access the Chinese technical papers.

His predictions on the state Chinese military technology are right on the money, unlike the CIA reports, which often were years off, even a whole decade off.

What a crap reasons you have, CIA have not aviation experts in hand nothing knows about Chinese languages and you do nothing about " certain engines" means WS-15 and " certain jets" means j-20 in any fighter jets preliminary design and development phases there are not single planform alignment assessment companies are working on different options for their country needs like Delta, Delta canard , crop deltas, tailed deltas, tailed cropped deltas, forward swept wings, arrow or diamond back back wings ( YF-23) and as for deception policy of your ill brain thoughts why China hiding WS-15 development from the world if China developed WS-15 and put in the j-20 , they proudly present to tell tells the world that China completed WS-15 development project and put in the j-20 and don't consider China is a weak country please answer my questions you brain fart @Asok kid

 

[Figaro]

You have not proven me wrong, on any occasion, Zero, None, Zip, in the last two days. Your "knowledge" on J-20, WS-15 and China, in general, are laughably poor. I am sorry to say, in danger, of being rude and offensive.

Dude. You know that your argument is very weak. I have provided multiple instances when one does not need to speak Chinese in order to understand Chinese document. As for your superficial remark in the last sentence, I can just as easily say that you're being racist against non-Chinese people ... keep that in mind

 

[Ultima Thule]

"you're being racist against non-Chinese people ..."

To claim that non-speaker of a foreign language, can not (at least, not easily) understand, what's written in that foreign language, is not Racism, my friend.

If someone said, Asok can not understand, what's written on this German, or French, or Russian, or Japanese . . . document, he is merely telling the truth, he is not being racist, because I really can't understand, any languages other Chinese and English.

Are you being offended by what I have said? I am sorry about that. But being offended doesn't make you right. May be you shouldn't feel offended, in the first place.

Develop a thick skin like me. Figaro.

I got insulted here at PDF, all the time, for expressing my candid opinions regarding J-20 and WS-15.

I am beginning to develop an immunity to them.

Please answer my post # of 9094 @Asok and you are reported for your trolling without prove

 

[Figaro]

Please answer my post # of 9094 @Asok and you are reported for your trolling without prove

Don't report him ... I believe Asok does truly care about the J-20 and occasionally posts *some* logical stuff. Either way, he is much better than the racist trolls who come from one particular *unnamed* country just to spew hate on PDF.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Don't report him ... I believe Asok does truly care about the J-20 and occasionally posts *some* logical stuff. Either way, he is much better than the racist trolls who come from one particular *named* country just to spew hate on PDF.

No brother @Asok acting like insane he is knows everything about j-20/WS-15 is right all other Chinese Senior members here on PDF is wrong he is a problem child here on j-20 discussion thread

 

[Asoka]

"you constantly reject other people's points, despite overwhelming evidence, and press on with your own ludicrous ideas."

It is more like the other way, around, Bro. I am the one, with overwhelming evidence, and they have none, and still won't give up, their ludicrous ideas.

I can't be more understanding and compassionate now. A lie repeated a thousand times, has became the truth for them, now.

I am actually begin to appreciate them and thankful to them. Their vociferous opposition has made me to dig deeper and found the truth. And their incessant attacks and insults, has worn down my pride, and I am actually begin to apologize, if I think I was being rude and offensive.

This is unimaginable just 2 months, before.

Mr. @Deino, I thank God for him, and may God bless him. Banned me for two weeks, so I could cool down, when I went on a vicious attack on him. I have reflected on myself.

I realized that what I received in life, good or bad, is precisely what I dished out, myself.

If I give respect, where it is due, I will get respect, back. If I give disrespect, I will receive exactly the same thing, back, whether, I was "right" or not. It doesn't matter

I still want to tell the truths, as I know them, be of service to mankind. But I have much to learn to be gentle, and soften my "blows".

So I apologize if I have ruffled your feathers. Mr. Figaro.

I know you have said, that you came here to PDF to learn a few things or two.

I respect that.

If you want Peace, between China and US, and among all nations, on earth, then you are not my enemy, but my comrade, in arms.

 

[Ultima Thule]

"you constantly reject other people's points, despite overwhelming evidence, and press on with your own ludicrous ideas."

It is more like the other way, around, Bro. I am the one, with overwhelming evidence, and they have none, and still won't give up, their ludicrous ideas.

I can't be more understanding and compassionate now. A lie repeated a thousand times, has became the truth for them, now.

I am actually begin to appreciate them and thankful to them. Their vociferous opposition has made me to dig deeper and found the truth. And their incessant attacks and insults, has worn down my pride, and I am actually begin to apologize, if I think I was being rude and offensive.

This is unimaginable just 2 months, before.

Mr. @Deino, I thank God for him, and may God bless him. Banned me for two weeks, so I could cool down, when I went on a vicious attack on him. I have reflected on myself.

I realized that what I received in life, good or bad, is precisely what I dished out, myself.

If I give respect, where it is due, I will get respect, back. If I give disrespect, I will receive exactly the same thing, back, whether, I was "right" or not. It doesn't matter

I still want to tell the truths, as I know them, be of service to mankind. But I have much to learn to be gentle, and soften my "blows".

So I apologize if I have ruffled your feathers. Mr. Figaro.

I know you have said, that you came here to PDF to learn a few things or two.

I respect that.

If you want Peace, between China and US, and among all nations, on earth, then you are not my enemy, but my comrade, in arms.

What overwhelming evidence just some from Internet false bloggers who spreading false assertions and rumors on the net and what is talking about Chinese Senior members here on PDF knows nothing about history of chinese military you are a jester here on j-20 discussion thread Mr @Asok who don't listen other Chinese senior members with reasonable logic, @cirr ,@Beast ,@cnleio ,@ChineseTiger1986 ,@grey boy 2 and other knows nothing about history of j-20/WS-15 development, what a loser ego you have Mr @Asok

 

[Figaro]

"you constantly reject other people's points, despite overwhelming evidence, and press on with your own ludicrous ideas."

It is more like the other way, around, Bro. I am the one, with overwhelming evidence, and they have none, and still won't give up, their ludicrous ideas.

I can't be more understanding and compassionate now. A lie repeated a thousand times, has became the truth for them, now.

I am actually begin to appreciate them and thankful to them. Their vociferous opposition has made me to dig deeper and found the truth. And their incessant attacks and insults, has worn down my pride, and I am actually begin to apologize, if I think I was being rude and offensive.

This is unimaginable just 2 months, before.

Mr. @Deino, I thank God for him, and may God bless him. Banned me for two weeks, so I could cool down, when I went on a vicious attack on him. I have reflected on myself.

I realized that what I received in life, good or bad, is precisely what I dished out, myself.

If I give respect, where it is due, I will get respect, back. If I give disrespect, I will receive exactly the same thing, back, whether, I was "right" or not. It doesn't matter

I still want to tell the truths, as I know them, be of service to mankind. But I have much to learn to be gentle, and soften my "blows".

So I apologize if I have ruffled your feathers. Mr. Figaro.

I know you have said, that you came here to PDF to learn a few things or two.

I respect that.

If you want Peace, between China and US, and among all nations, on earth, then you are not my enemy, but my comrade, in arms.

It is more like the other way, around, Bro. I am the one, with overwhelming evidence, and they have none, and still won't give up, their ludicrous ideas.
You have not given me even a single shred of evidence. I guess you'll just have to continue digging ...
So I apologize if I have ruffled your feathers. Mr. Figaro.
Don't worry about it, you haven't been rude ... although unnecessarily stubborn . I have been in far more contentious arguments and topics.
If you want Peace, between China and US, and among all nations, on earth, then you are not my enemy, but my comrade, in arms.
Really? Why do you have mention "peace" when your posts don't have any peaceful nature in them?

 

[Brainsucker]

Why don't both sides to agree to disagree? It's tiring to see this never ending pointless debate like this. Asok opinion won't hurt anyone, so let his opinion alone. And if you afraid that his "baseless" opinion dirtied this thread, then you can make him a thread with title "Asok's prediction of J-20 development program". So he can post whatever he wants, and only people who believe in him can follow his thought without spark unnecessary debate.