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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

the test hasnt been finalized yet, how come it has started mass production???


for projects like H-20, SSBNs, WS-15 and 5th gen fighters, "official" reports are only becoming "reliable" when the thing is actually out with clear pictures, and doing all the "physicall maneuvers" infront of naked eyes or "amature camera lenses"```until then, just treat them as bedtime stories```````


For the WS-15 and 5th gen fighters project . . ., "official" reports are NOT "reliable", because for the last 6 years,

1.) the thing is NOT actually out with hundreds of clear pictures,
2.) NOT doing all the "physicall maneuvers", infront of naked eyes, or "amature camera lenses"
3.) So they are just "bedtime stories".

Ok, I got it. So let's just ignore the official Chinese documentary reports. They are not a reliable source.
 
For the WS-15 and 5th gen fighters project . . ., "official" reports are NOT "reliable", because for the last 6 years,

1.) the thing is NOT actually out with hundreds of clear pictures,
2.) NOT doing all the "physicall maneuvers", infront of naked eyes, or "amature camera lenses"
3.) So they are just "bedtime stories".

Ok, I got it. So let's just ignore the official Chinese documentary reports. They are not a reliable source.


Point is simply that none of these three points is clear as hell as we all would like to:

Just take point 1:

IMO none and in fact not a single one of the hundreds of images available gives for me the final proof for a WS-15. In fact it is quite to the contrary and I take ALL of them for granted proof that it si an AL-31FN-derivate.
I do not want to start that discussion again, but You see that images You take for proof for a WS-15 do others interpret for exactly the contrary and not since they are blind, stupid ot ignorant, but simply since they are not conclusive.

Also point 2:

You interpret this IMO lame display at Zhuhai with a gentle pass and a soft climb a rocket-like, the best-seen ever and proof for a +210kN thrust engine.
Again here too I don't want to open the can of worms again, but none of this points is as conclusive as we like.

And in the same You interpret this video, which does not mention the WS-15 nor a WS-10XYZ by name and which was soon removed as a proof for the WS-15 is already in production and so on.

That's what is called having the same evidence on the table and coming to complete conclusions ... .

Deino
 
Point is simply that none of these three points is clear as hell as we all would like to:

Just take point 1:

IMO none and in fact not a single one of the hundreds of images available gives for me the final proof for a WS-15. In fact it is quite to the contrary and I take ALL of them for granted proof that it si an AL-31FN-derivate.
I do not want to start that discussion again, but You see that images You take for proof for a WS-15 do others interpret for exactly the contrary and not since they are blind, stupid ot ignorant, but simply since they are not conclusive.

Also point 2:

You interpret this IMO lame display at Zhuhai with a gentle pass and a soft climb a rocket-like, the best-seen ever and proof for a +210kN thrust engine.
Again here too I don't want to open the can of worms again, but none of this points is as conclusive as we like.

And in the same You interpret this video, which does not mention the WS-15 nor a WS-10XYZ by name and which was soon removed as a proof for the WS-15 is already in production and so on.

That's what is called having the same evidence on the table and coming to complete conclusions ... .

Deino

That's what I am saying, official Chinese reports are NOT a reliable source.

Let's rely on our trusty CIA and Pentagon intelligence estimates, which informed Honorable Mr. Robert Gates, that China will not have a 5-generation fighter, till 2020, and only a few by 2025.

Let us keep ignore, what the vice PLAAF Commander, predicted in 2009, that the Chinese 5-generation fighter will be flying shortly, and will be in service around 2017-2019. He is clearly delusional and not informed on the state of Chinese military aviation.

In summary, those reports, pictures, videos, and eye-witness sightings of J-20, of the last 6 years, are just "bedtime stories", made up for kids.
 
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That's what I am saying, official Chinese reports are NOT a reliable source.

Let's rely on our trusty CIA and Pentagon intelligence estimates, which informed Honorable Mr. Robert Gates, that China will not have a 5-generation fighter, till 2020, and only a few by 2025.

Let us keep ignore, what the vice PLAAF Commander, predicted in 2009, that the Chinese 5-generation fighter will be flying shortly, and will be in service around 2017-2019. He is clearly delusional and not informed on the state of Chinese military aviation.

In summary, those reports, pictures, videos, and eye-witness sightings of J-20, of the last 6 years, are just "bedtime stories", made up for kids.

Come on, be a man and not a stubborn five-year old boy and admit at least that none of these images clearly shows the afterburner of the LRIP J-20A so close and clear that without any doubt it can be said which engine it is or is not.
Admit that there is - esp. not in this obscure CCTV-report - not expressively mentioned the current LRIP J-20A are powered by WS-15 engines.

All images so far, be these the nozzle or flying images are in the final conclusion not clear enough to say without any doubt this is the conclusion.
 
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"in this obscure CCTV-report - [it is] not expressively mentioned the current LROP J-20A are powered by WS-15 engines."

1.) Sure, official Chinese CCTV documentary is "obscure". Perhaps, Mr. Deino could find us a more official and authoritative source of information, like the CIA or NATO Intelligence reports on China. I am sure Mr. Deino can get us a report from those venerable intelligence agencies, who are better informed about PLAAF, than its own Commander.

2.) Sure, [it is] not expressively mentioned the current LROP J-20A are powered by WS-15 engines.", in this report:

"Taihang" aircraft engine, to the [domestically produced] fifth generation "Emei" (WS-15) aircraft engine, . . . The J-20 stealth fighter’s engine's part, tooling and final assembly, were all completed, in the assembly factory of AECC Shenyang Liming Group Co. Ltd. China's aircraft engine industry, has achieved a historic leap, which has astounded the entire world.”

3.) Sure, the Chinese would have audacity or stupidity to claim that they "has achieved a historic leap, which has astounded the entire world.", even though the WS-15 has not even flown, yet, but it's still doing ground tests.
 
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Oh again Mr. Asok cannot accept that none of his claims is conclusive and instead of accepting or admitting is trying again to make the others look blind, stupid or foolish.

No, I cannot prove my point but I at least admit it ... but the failing to prove my point does not in return makes Your claims confirmed.
If we both are discussion about the certain colour of a fruit and I say green and You say yellow and I cannot prove my claim green is this in return a prove for yellow??

Man; I really don't know what You are doing in profession but it surely has nothing to do with science, nature science and technology.

Again: show a single high-resolution image so we can decide what engine it is ... but IMO You tend to hang on a lousily researched and probably wrong TV-report without an prove ... just claims


By the way ... and I know it would ruin one if not Your only alleged prove: Do You have an answer why this video was soon deleted and is in no way repeated again? Maybe simply since they claimed wrong things ?? Could at least be an option.
But You surely will tell us that it was deleted since it unveiled too much of the highest secret engine technologies.... since "War is The Art of Deception".



Anyway ... I'm out again.
Deino
 
Oh again Mr. Asok cannot accept that none of his claims is conclusive and instead of accepting or admitting is trying again to make the others look blind, stupid or foolish.

No, I cannot prove my point but I at least admit it ... but the failing to prove my point does not in return makes Your claims confirmed.
If we both are discussion about the certain colour of a fruit and I say green and You say yellow and I cannot prove my claim green is this in return a prove for yellow??

Man; I really don't know what You are doing in profession but it surely has nothing to do with science, nature science and technology.

Again: show a single high-resolution image so we can decide what engine it is ... but IMO You tend to hang on a lousily researched and probably wrong TV-report without an prove ... just claims


By the way ... and I know it would ruin one if not Your only alleged prove: Do You have an answer why this video was soon deleted and is in no way repeated again? Maybe simply since they claimed wrong things ?? Could at least be an option.
But You surely will tell us that it was deleted since it unveiled too much of the highest secret engine technologies.... since "War is The Art of Deception".



Anyway ... I'm out again.
Deino

"Anyway ... I'm out again."

Sure, those sneaky, devilishly clever Chinese, somehow, has designed, tested, and completed an greatly improved Russian AL-31-FN-M2 engine, and installed it on the new 5-gen fighter, J-20 for flight testing, back in 2010, a full two and half years, before, it's development plan was announced by the Russian in Sept. 2012.

Sure, that could happen. We are talking about China, after all. But somehow, it still haven't managed to test fly, it's supposed "Frankenstein" engine, WS-15, after at least 25 years of development.

That is really puzzling to me. But I am just a dumb fan-boy. That I have to admit.

And sure, Mr. Deino has the proofs that those damn Chinese, really has did the "impossible", but he has choose not give us any evidences.

May be, the Chinese just time travelled into the FUTURE, and stole several copies of the AL-31-FN-M2 engines, from the Russian, for its LRIP J-20.

Anything could happen, I admit.
 
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Hmm ... ok. I was wrong, now I see it ... how could I've been so blind, so stupid? :crazy:

YES for sure, the J-20 is already a close to 6th generation type, has a Mach 3.5 capability, can fly further and faster than any active military fighter. It will reach any opponent - maybe even the moon in half the time Apollo 11 reached - and that all alone only due to its mystical mega-hyper- +210 kN engine.
It has a system that can feel the pilot's input, that can kill by a thought and even will be invisible due to a Romulan cloaking device in batch 4 aka J-20C (C for cloaking!). :eek:

The USAF will abandon all future fighter projects and will bow down to China - pardon, to You Asok the Great; the man who can deduct such mysteries only from 5sec video clips and grainy 5kB images. Mysteries the PLAAF HQs desperately wants to hide esp. from such ignorant, stupid Germans :hitwall:- and surrender ....

Upps. I woke up ... what a nice, funny dream I had. :laughcry::yay:

Deino
 
Hmm ... ok. I was wrong, now I see it ... how could I've been so blind, so stupid? :crazy:

YES for sure, the J-20 is already a close to 6th generation type, has a Mach 3.5 capability, can fly further and faster than any active military fighter. It will reach any opponent - maybe even the moon in half the time Apollo 11 reached - and that all alone only due to its mystical mega-hyper- +210 kN engine.
It has a system that can feel the pilot's input, that can kill by a thought and even will be invisible due to a Romulan cloaking device in batch 4 aka J-20C (C for cloaking!). :eek:

The USAF will abandon all future fighter projects and will bow down to China - pardon, to You Asok the Great; the man who can deduct such mysteries only from 5sec video clips and grainy 5kB images. Mysteries the PLAAF HQs desperately wants to hide esp. from such ignorant, stupid Germans :hitwall:- and surrender ....

Upps. I woke up ... what a nice, funny dream I had. :laughcry::yay:

Deino

"Hmm ... ok. I was wrong, now I see it ... how could I've been so blind, so stupid?"

Thank you, Mr. Deino. I feel my mission is finally accomplished. :yay: :yay: :yay:

You are not "so blind" or "so stupid", just stubborn, some times. But hey, who isn't?

Auf Wiedersehen, Herr Deino!
 
I think some day when the truth is finally out ... surely several years from now and when we are already a bit (at least) grey, we should sit together and remember these good old days when we were fighting for and against each argument, stubborn like teenagers and have a good meal together. :-)
 
Hmm ... ok. I was wrong, now I see it ... how could I've been so blind, so stupid? :crazy:

YES for sure, the J-20 is already a close to 6th generation type, has a Mach 3.5 capability, can fly further and faster than any active military fighter. It will reach any opponent - maybe even the moon in half the time Apollo 11 reached - and that all alone only due to its mystical mega-hyper- +210 kN engine.
It has a system that can feel the pilot's input, that can kill by a thought and even will be invisible due to a Romulan cloaking device in batch 4 aka J-20C (C for cloaking!). :eek:

The USAF will abandon all future fighter projects and will bow down to China - pardon, to You Asok the Great; the man who can deduct such mysteries only from 5sec video clips and grainy 5kB images. Mysteries the PLAAF HQs desperately wants to hide esp. from such ignorant, stupid Germans :hitwall:- and surrender ....

Upps. I woke up ... what a nice, funny dream I had. :laughcry::yay:

Deino
i taste the sarcasm suttle yet so effective :eek:
 
Some years from now, I will remember Oct 2016 to Now, was one of my intellectually most active and interesting period.

To solve the mystery of J-20's engine, I was intensely pulled into understand how Jet Engine and how aircraft fly.

Sometimes, I spend more than 10 hrs a day on it. I must have downloaded and read over 100 technical papers and articles, on these subjects. Not very amusing for my wife and daughter to see me, constantly, glued to the monitor, reading those papers.

Before, I didn't even know how a jet engine works, how the airplane controls works, not even know how the wings of generates lift, despite a life long interest in airplane. I was just looking at pretty aircraft pictures. I am ashamed to admit.

Thank you for being my worthy debate "opponent"! :cheers:

It takes another stubborn person, to get the best and worst, out of another stubborn man.

I have insisted that there is a War of Deception going on, being waged by the Chinese over J-20.

There is a chance, that the continuous public disclosures of J-20 is diversionary tactic, designed to divert attention, away from the even more secretive H-20, strategic stealth bomber project.

To admit being fooled is not easy. The Chinese have fooled the fanboys, the CIA and Pentagon, big time, over the J-20 project.

They have fooled Mr. Robert Gates into cancel the formidable F-22, and put their money on the lesser F-35, thus forfeited their Air Superiority and air dominance, that the US has enjoyed since WWII.

I really doubted US would have cancelled F-22 at 187 units, if they knew, what they knew now.

Now, they can either reopen the F-22 production line, which takes 5 years even with no major upgrades, or bet their money on the sixth-generation fighter, which may take another 15 years, like F-22 and F-35.

There is no guaranteed, that China won't beat US and Russia to it, and produce a better sixth-generation, at an earlier date.

Either case, US have forfeited its Air Superiority over China. There will be no more generation gap between US and China air forces.

Their air powers' quality and quantity will be at PARITY, in the near future.

If the US has kept their production goal of 800+ F-22, China will not have 800 J-20 for another 10-15 years, and US would still have their Air Superiority.

And since the F-22's production line is still open, if it weren't canceled, US could keep increase the production F-22, past 800 units, and keep making continuous upgrades, like the F-15 and F-16, at the expense of F-35, in order, to keep up with J-20's production.

There would be no danger of losing the Air Superiority to China.

Now, US faces the prospect of 184 F-22 against 500-1000 J-20, in the next 10-20 years.

And J-20 will keep improving, at a rapid rate, while F-22 will not.
 
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Beauty of J 20

download (1).jpg

J20 with External Fuel Tank
C5MPJHnXUAAWrJ4.jpg
download.jpg
C5MPKuIW8AAfgY_.jpg
 
"in this obscure CCTV-report - [it is] not expressively mentioned the current LROP J-20A are powered by WS-15 engines."

1.) Sure, official Chinese CCTV documentary is "obscure". Perhaps, Mr. Deino could find us a more official and authoritative source of information, like the CIA or NATO Intelligence reports on China. I am sure Mr. Deino can get us a report from those venerable intelligence agencies, who are better informed about PLAAF, than its own Commander.

2.) Sure, [it is] not expressively mentioned the current LROP J-20A are powered by WS-15 engines.", in this report:

"Taihang" aircraft engine, to the [domestically produced] fifth generation "Emei" (WS-15) aircraft engine, . . . The J-20 stealth fighter’s engine's part, tooling and final assembly, were all completed, in the assembly factory of AECC Shenyang Liming Group Co. Ltd. China's aircraft engine industry, has achieved a historic leap, which has astounded the entire world.”

3.) Sure, the Chinese would have audacity or stupidity to claim that they "has achieved a historic leap, which has astounded the entire world.", even though the WS-15 has not even flown, yet, but it's still doing ground tests.
I believe that what CCTV reported is official.

However, I can not make sure that it is 100% percent describing the J-20 equipped with WS-15.
The key point is, the Chinese language used in that report can have different meanings.
I have studied frame by frame for that report. But right now, I think we need to wait for more proof.
 
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For the WS-15 and 5th gen fighters project . . ., "official" reports are NOT "reliable", because for the last 6 years,

1.) the thing is NOT actually out with hundreds of clear pictures,
2.) NOT doing all the "physicall maneuvers", infront of naked eyes, or "amature camera lenses"
3.) So they are just "bedtime stories".

Ok, I got it. So let's just ignore the official Chinese documentary reports. They are not a reliable source.
name one stuff that was 'revealed' by official news report which was prior to “翻墙党"'s clear pics and insiders' "side-talks" since 90s, just name one please``j-20? type 052C? J-10B/C/D? Y-20? J-31? Z-20? 055? or 039? or new SSBNs?

you have no idea the rigidness of the security works in that circle```and official news outlet is in line with the system, relying on official news regarding our military progress is as solid as relying on Jackpot to get rich```as matter of the discussion, WS-15 is nowhere near "mass production", and there is not one picture of WS-15 out yet (not the core, but the whole set)
 
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