Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Xenophon]

We should start negotiating about this plane .

 

[S10]

cool . I will wait for final product or atleast final specs . I guess it will be for Shoot and scoot role unlike PakFa or F22 which can tail any versatile aircraft

Prototype #2016 is actually quite close to production model. I would say it might actually be the last one or two prototype before limited production.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Prototype #2016 is actually quite close to production model. I would say it might actually be the last one or two prototype before limited production.

One thing i am proud of this program is its our first 5th gen fighter from Asia . But i like to be careful before studying its capabilities . there are many challenges to get a level of F22 or PakFa .

J20 on my view :

Good Range

moderately good stealth to be called as 5th gen fighter better than EF or Rafale

High speed

Medium altitude

short of Dogfight capabilities .Inferior to 30s , EF rafale F15 j11 but superior in BVR thanks to new missiles(yet to be developed but on its way and thanks to its stealth with reduce range of getting detected and locked by enemy)

Major changes in airframe is not possible unless completely new fighter will be produced which is likely .

Prototype #2016 is actually quite close to production model. I would say it might actually be the last one or two prototype before limited production.

Given some official info on its capabilities

 

[BoQ77]

The sensors and cyber warfare capability of the J-20 are as good as Lockheed Martin's F-35, the source said.
..........
The J-20 development has been done at a faster pace than Russian T-50 fifth generation fighter.

1. How "the source" know "how F-35 perform in sensor and cyber warfare capability" ? to conclude J20 as good as F-35
maybe J20 even better ? but we are not sure.

2. How J-20 at faster pace than T-50 ? please declare !!!

 

[S10]

One thing i am proud of this program is its our first 5th gen fighter from Asia . But i like to be careful before studying its capabilities . there are many challenges to get a level of F22 or PakFa.

What "level" is F-22 or PAK-FA? Everything is mere speculation.

J20 on my view :

Good Range

moderately good stealth to be called as 5th gen fighter better than EF or Rafale

High speed

Medium altitude

short of Dogfight capabilities .Inferior to 30s , EF rafale F15 j11 but superior in BVR thanks to new missiles(yet to be developed but on its way and thanks to its stealth with reduce range of getting detected and locked by enemy)

Major changes in airframe is not possible unless completely new fighter will be produced which is likely .

Long range is a given, as the plane has a large internal tank. How did you arrive at the "moderately good stealth" part? First, what is your standard of good? You can't measure RCS with your eyes and it's not dependent on size (i.e. B-2). Second, the delta-canard shaping with leading wing edge and thrust vectoring were designed to have good maneuverability in high subsonic speeds in the first place, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that it can't dogfight?

 

[Ind4Ever]

What "level" is F-22 or PAK-FA? Everything is mere speculation.

Because each of these two projects have dedicated futuristic engine and more than enough experience.

Long range is a given, as the plane has a large internal tank. How did you arrive at the "moderately good stealth" part? First, what is your standard of good? You can't measure RCS with your eyes and it's not dependent on size (i.e. B-2). Second, the delta-canard shaping with leading wing edge and thrust vectoring were designed to have good maneuverability in high subsonic speeds in the first place, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that it can't dogfight?

You should think about these points below :

- no better way of guaranteeing a radar reflection and compromise of stealth” than adding canards to the aircraft.
Thats the reason you wont see Canards in all (ALL) 5th gen fighter . There is a good reason for doing so .

2)Engine nozzle stealth compromised due to heat generated by high thrust engines to propel over all fat body of larger fighter like J20 will be more !!!

 

[Beast]

Because each of these two projects have dedicated futuristic engine and more than enough experience.




You should think about these points below :

- no better way of guaranteeing a radar reflection and compromise of stealth” than adding canards to the aircraft.
Thats the reason you wont see Canards in all (ALL) 5th gen fighter . There is a good reason for doing so .

View attachment 258652


2)Engine nozzle stealth compromised due to heat generated by high thrust engines to propel over all fat body of larger fighter like J20 will be more !!! View attachment 258658

Really?

Boeing 6th generation fighter concept

 

[Ind4Ever]

Really?

View attachment 258680

Boeing 6th generation fighter concept

good one but epic fail . its 6th gen technology yet to be developed . thats generation leap from 5th gen . please dont compare j20 with 6th gen ,,,

 

[S10]

Because each of these two projects have dedicated futuristic engine and more than enough experience.

Where is the supposed "futuristic engine" for PAK-FA? It's an AL-31 derivative. Russia has yet to develop to develop the 117 engine. Don't count your chicken before it hatches, especially when Russia aviation industry suffered from chronic funding shortage and brain drain for the past 20 years.

The 117S engine had grounded 1 prototype and destroyed another already:

You should think about these points below :

- no better way of guaranteeing a radar reflection and compromise of stealth” than adding canards to the aircraft.
Thats the reason you wont see Canards in all (ALL) 5th gen fighter . There is a good reason for doing so .

View attachment 258652


2)Engine nozzle stealth compromised due to heat generated by high thrust engines to propel over all fat body of larger fighter like J20 will be more !!! View attachment 258658

No, you should think about these below. The presence of canard does not automatically mean RCS return will be put above the low observable threshold, nor does having a larger airframe.

Northrop Gruman

SAAB

KF-X

X-36

JAST

good one but epic fail . its 6th gen technology yet to be developed . thats generation leap from 5th gen . please dont compare j20 with 6th gen ,,,

No, the fail is on you. Canard designs were proposed for SAAB's next generation fighter, US Naval Advanced Tactical Fighter, South Korean KF-X as well as Boeing's 6th generation concept. All of those have the requirement of being low observable, so obviously the presence of canard does not exclude a design from being considered "stealth".

 

[Beast]

Where is the supposed "futuristic engine" for PAK-FA? It's an AL-31 derivative. Russia has yet to develop to develop the 117 engine. Don't count your chicken before it hatches, especially when Russia aviation industry suffered from chronic funding shortage and brain drain for the past 20 years.

The 117S engine had grounded 1 prototype and destroyed another already:

No, you should think about these below. The presence of canard does not automatically mean RCS return will be put above the low observable threshold, nor does having a larger airframe.

Northrop Gruman

SAAB

KF-X

X-36

JAST

No, the fail is on you. Canard designs were proposed for SAAB's next generation fighter, US Naval Advanced Tactical Fighter, South Korean KF-X as well as Boeing's 6th generation concept. All of those have the requirement of being low observable, so obviously the presence of canard does not exclude a design from being considered "stealth".

THe indian is just spreading lies to ease their ego of not able to compete on the same ground. They are at least 2-3 level lower than the Chinese when comes to aviation fighter development.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

New J-20 Stealth Fighter Prototype Undergoes Flight Tests

J-20 Stealth Fighter Aircraft

The latest prototype of the Chengdu J-20, China’s fifth-generation stealth fighter, with the temporary tail number “2016” has begun taxiing tests recently, according to Sina’s military news web portal.

There are at present seven prototypes of the aircraft, which had its maiden test flight in early 2011. The main mission of the prototype with the initial tail number “2001” was to undertake a maiden flight and to test the aircraft’s aerodynamic structure and stealth capabilities. The prototype which originally had the tail number “2002” (now been repainted as “2004”) was used mainly to test avionics, as well as the hydraulics and the pneumatics of the weapons bay. Later it was also used to test bomb drops.

Another two prototypes have not conducted test flights, including what is now the “2002” and the “2003,” and have likely been used for static strength tests, ground-based radar cross-section tests, fatigue tests and the “iron bird” test platform. Six prototypes have previously carried out flight tests, the “2001,” the “2002,” (now the “2004”) and the 2011, as well as three newer prototypes with the tail numbers “2012,” “2013” and “2015.”

The next batch of prototypes will halt use of simulated flight systems, fly-by-wire control systems, electronic warfare systems and pneumatics, which will all be actually installed within the craft, to allow for more comprehensive test flights, according to commentators.

The current J-20 prototypes are equipped with an electro-optical distributed aperture system (EODAS) similar to that of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II. They are also equipped with the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar developed for the J-20 over a number of years by the Nanjing Electronic Technology Research Institute, also known as the No. 14 Institute. The AESA radar is similar in its specs to the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-77 low probability of intercept radar installed on the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and the AN/APG-79 developed for the US Navy’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Boeing EA-18G Growler.

The next batch of J-20 prototypes will reportedly be equipped with imported Russian AL-31FN series 3 engines. The engine’s specs are similar to the AL-31F M1 and are equipped with a full authority digital electronics control (FADEC) system. As research and development on the domestically built Xian WS-15 engine has fallen well behind, with the engine not even having undergone high-altitude test flights, it is unlikely to be installed in the first production batch of the J-20.

The first batch of J-20s to enter into production will be handed over to the PLA Air Force test flight and training center in Cangzhou and will be handed over to frontline air force units in 2017. It is expected to achieve initial operational capable (IOC) status in 2019. This batch will likely be equipped with Russian-made AL31F-M2 or AL-41F1S engines until around 2020. The domestic WS-15 will likely mature in time to be installed in the second batch of J-20s to be manufactured, which will be called the J-20A.

There has been continuous bad news emerging about the T-50 prototype of the Russian fifth-generation Sukhoi PAK FA fighter. The T-50 is reportedly inferior to the J-20 in terms of its avionics, the material used to make the plane and its stealth capabilities, and it iss uncertain whether it will enter service at all. Production of the US F-22 has halted after 187 planes came off the line and many of the aircraft have been grounded due to a problem with its oxygen supply systems. The F-35 has faced interminable delays and its overall capabilities do not seem to match up to the T-50, never mind the J-20.

If China’s air force were to be equipped with 500 J-20s, it would rank first among the world’s air forces, according to the website. The J-20 does not currently have a carrier-based variant and China is yet to establish an overseas air base, so its primary objective will likely be to protect China’s airspace and air defence capabilities.
New J-20 Stealth Fighter Prototype Undergoes Flight Tests | Air Force & Aerospace News at DefenceTalk

 

[gambit]

No, the fail is on you. Canard designs were proposed for SAAB's next generation fighter, US Naval Advanced Tactical Fighter, South Korean KF-X as well as Boeing's 6th generation concept. All of those have the requirement of being low observable, so obviously the presence of canard does not exclude a design from being considered "stealth".

No, the fail is on YOU, for failing to understand what I tried to teach you guys a long time ago.

In designing a low radar observable body, there are three main rules of control:

- Quantity of radiators
- Array of radiators
- Modes of radiation

Rule 1: There is no set quantity of radiators. What this rule mean is that you should minimize the quantity of structures that would be in the radar beam.

Rule 2: A single vertical stab for yaw axis control and stability have been the norm for decades. But for a low radar observable design, a single vertical stab would mean a pair corner reflectors created between the vertical stab and the aircraft's body. So in using twin canted vertical stabs to avoid the critical 90 deg corner reflector, you are less obedient to rule 1. You did not violate rule 1. Just less obedient to it.

Rule 2: There are many modes of radiation. The surface wave mode is one of them. Absorber to control surface waves would deny the enemy's radar much of this mode of radiation.

You can have a requirement that a body be low radar observable, but if the quantity of radiators elevates your design above a certain threshold, your design failed your requirement. So just because an experimental design have canards and the low radar observable requirement, that does not mean both are natural allies with each other.

For all we know, those experimental aircrafts may have low radar observable requirement, but it was the canards that raised the overall RCS to over that threshold.

 

[kungfugymnast]

The T-50 is reportedly inferior to the J-20 in terms of its avionics, the material used to make the plane and its stealth capabilities, and it iss uncertain whether it will enter service at all. Production of the US F-22 has halted after 187 planes came off the line and many of the aircraft have been grounded due to a problem with its oxygen supply systems. The F-35 has faced interminable delays and its overall capabilities do not seem to match up to the T-50, never mind the J-20.

If China’s air force were to be equipped with 500 J-20s, it would rank first among the world’s air forces, according to the website. The J-20 does not currently have a carrier-based variant and China is yet to establish an overseas air base, so its primary objective will likely be to protect China’s airspace and air defence capabilities.

US congress has decided not to replace all f15s with f22 upon seeing the high maintenance and limited multi-role capability. F15s would remain in service until new stealth aircraft or probably non-stealth better agility multi-role fighters will be developed instead. Stealth fighter only limited to intercept role or deep interdiction strike taking over role of f117.

The f35 too might not be built in large numbers bt as supplement to fighters they intended to replace due to very limited armaments carried internally. It is more suitable for attacking strategic targets such as enemy command centre, SAM sites, logistics while air support and combat air patrol roles are done by conventional fighters.

Navalised j20 will only materialize after China managed to build proper catapult launch system allowing it to take off on full fuel & payloads attacking targets deeper inside enemy territories.

 

[Oldman1]

US congress has decided not to replace all f15s with f22 upon seeing the high maintenance and limited multi-role capability. F15s would remain in service until new stealth aircraft or probably non-stealth better agility multi-role fighters will be developed instead. Stealth fighter only limited to intercept role or deep interdiction strike taking over role of f117.

The f35 too might not be built in large numbers bt as supplement to fighters they intended to replace due to very limited armaments carried internally. It is more suitable for attacking strategic targets such as enemy command centre, SAM sites, logistics while air support and combat air patrol roles are done by conventional fighters.

Navalised j20 will only materialize after China managed to build proper catapult launch system allowing it to take off on full fuel & payloads attacking targets deeper inside enemy territories.

F-15s are being planned to be upgraded. And no doubt the F-35 will be built in large numbers.

 

[ultron]

F-15s are being planned to be upgraded. And no doubt the F-35 will be built in large numbers.

J-20 compared to F-35 is essentially F-18E compared to F-16.