Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[blain2]

President leaves for China today

Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: President Asif Ali Zardari will leave for China on Friday (today), on his second visit to the friendly neighbour since assuming office last year.

He will explore avenues of economic cooperation in various fields, including Chinese investment in Pakistan’s energy sector.

During his visit from February 20 to 23, the president will visit Hubei, Yichang and Shanghai – the industrial hubs of China. “The visit will provide an opportunity for both sides to explore the avenues of economic cooperation and investments particularly in agriculture, industry and energy sectors,” the Foreign Office spokesman said.

Sources said the president would focus on seeking Chinese cooperation, expertise and investment to tackle the energy crises in Pakistan. He would ask Chinese firms to invest in renewable energy sources.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Hope we will get good news abt J-10s

There maybe a news about the signing of the deal with regards to the FC-20, however I would not put money on it. Usually Pakistan-China defence deals are simply covered in news releases under the garb of "x agreements/MoUs were signed" etc. Details come later.

 

[Quwa]

There maybe a news about the signing of the deal with regards to the FC-20, however I would not put money on it. Usually Pakistan-China defence deals are simply covered in news releases under the garb of "x agreements/MoUs were signed" etc. Details come later.

It's not always necessary to have a high profile figure in China to sign it...the first 4 KJ-200 AEW&C were inked out of the blue. For all we know an MoD official will head out to China in a few weeks and PAF will announce it then and there.

 

[Neo]

Could this be the J-10B/FC-20?

 

[Super Falcon]

dark black camo on j 10 will be good and desert camo on jf 17 willl be great which camo in our f 16 have it is very boring paf use to present fighter jets like fighter jets not like bamboo

 

[Munir]

Could this be the J-10B/FC-20?

Just from engineering point of view Neo... Delta and canards with V tail is not possible. You will have impossible strengthening and accept disfunctional rudder. Fan-art is nice but they never had aviation engineering classes like i did. On the other hand... I suck in producing fan-art...

If it is possible then EF2000 would have it. Do mind that mki is not a delta and the canards are small. And outside the range of the rudders.

 

[Munir]

Talking about aeronautics. The Indians have shown an big UAV. The most important mistake... Jumping from nothing right towards MALE or even towards Global Hawk aspirations. Since I only look at pictures and structure I can tell that this latest plane is just a mockup. Wooden engine blocks. Laughable rudder. Just look at the T size and the antenna's on the elevator... Furthermore the gear looks almost playmobil and the sandbags in the middle are clearly a sign that there is nothing real in it. The paint job is amaturistic. So whoever wanted to show that they are doing something did a real bad job. I hope the other parties did not look at it. Or it was an cheap advertisement to get foreign aprties involved in another "indeg Indian" product. I am a bit sarcastic but somehow I often have the correct conclusions.

And they already talking about weapons on their Rustum... Well... It will be a major Israeli program and int he end they will buy something Israeli...

DSC01572-781162.JPG (image)

 

[Quwa]

Speaking of UAVs, H Khan said we'll soon see "locally designed and produced Armed-UAVs (AUAV). I suspect it is either the Turkish TIHA or an indigenous program we haven't heard about yet....

 

[shehbazi2001]

Just from engineering point of view Neo... Delta and canards with V tail is not possible. You will have impossible strengthening and accept disfunctional rudder. Fan-art is nice but they never had aviation engineering classes like i did. On the other hand... I suck in producing fan-art...

If it is possible then EF2000 would have it. Do mind that mki is not a delta and the canards are small. And outside the range of the rudders.

Just for the combination of canards, delta wing and dual fins, take a look at XB-70 Valkyrie bomber. Although it did not enter production, it did prove from engineering point of view that the above combination is possible.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2077109280037627062rydIEp

Also Su-30 does not have V-tail, yes it has dual vertical fins.

 

[Munir]

When that bomber was developed it had simple purpose of flying high and fast. They had no idea what the impact would be if the rudder was placed in the wake of canard turbullence... The problems starts being clear with F14... That one has kind of canards and double rudders... They advised that those canards would stay inside! Each time they see something they did not know.

There is a big difference between the size of a small fighterjet and a bomber. There is a lot of difference how the flight profiles are. And there is something that you surely do not know when you make prototypes. The problems occur often during operational frame.

It is nothing new that if you put a canard in front that causes drag and wake which wil impact the rudder that is placed in the back. Even without a canard you do need to know that two vertical rudders can have impact in they are placed close to eachother (like F15/F14).

About V or normal vertical rudders... If you get terrible airflow you cannot do anything good with them.

Think tank members rule! Good discussion.

 

[Munir]

Here some basic info. In aviation it is a well known fact. Just adding that canards produce vortices and the rest is the same as the paper explains...

>>>Unsteady flow phenomena associated with leading-edge vortices


C. Breitsamter, a,

aInstitute of Aerodynamics, Technische Universität München, Boltzmannstraße 15, 85748 Garching, Germany


Available online 11 January 2008.
Abstract

This paper presents selected results from extensive experimental investigations on turbulent flow fields and unsteady surface pressures caused by leading-edge vortices, in particular, for vortex breakdown flow. Such turbulent flows may cause severe dynamic aeroelastic problems like wing and/or fin buffeting on fighter-type aircraft. The wind tunnel models used include a generic delta wing as well as a detailed aircraft configuration of canard-delta wing type. The turbulent flow structures are analyzed by root-mean-square and spectral distributions of velocity and pressure fluctuations. Downstream of bursting local maxima of velocity fluctuations occur in a limited radial range around the vortex center. The corresponding spectra exhibit significant peaks indicating that turbulent kinetic energy is channeled into a narrow band. These quasi-periodic velocity oscillations arise from a helical mode instability of the breakdown flow. Due to vortex bursting there is a characteristic increase in surface pressure fluctuations with increasing angle of attack, especially when the burst location moves closer to the apex. The pressure fluctuations also show dominant frequencies corresponding to those of the velocity fluctuations. Using the measured flow field data, scaling parameters are derived for design purposes. It is shown that a frequency parameter based on the local semi-span and the sinus of angle of attack can be used to estimate the frequencies of dynamic loads evoked by vortex bursting.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Here some basic info. In aviation it is a well known fact. Just adding that canards produce vortices and the rest is the same as the paper explains...

>>>Unsteady flow phenomena associated with leading-edge vortices


C. Breitsamter, a,

aInstitute of Aerodynamics, Technische Universität München, Boltzmannstraße 15, 85748 Garching, Germany


Available online 11 January 2008.
Abstract

This paper presents selected results from extensive experimental investigations on turbulent flow fields and unsteady surface pressures caused by leading-edge vortices, in particular, for vortex breakdown flow. Such turbulent flows may cause severe dynamic aeroelastic problems like wing and/or fin buffeting on fighter-type aircraft. The wind tunnel models used include a generic delta wing as well as a detailed aircraft configuration of canard-delta wing type. The turbulent flow structures are analyzed by root-mean-square and spectral distributions of velocity and pressure fluctuations. Downstream of bursting local maxima of velocity fluctuations occur in a limited radial range around the vortex center. The corresponding spectra exhibit significant peaks indicating that turbulent kinetic energy is channeled into a narrow band. These quasi-periodic velocity oscillations arise from a helical mode instability of the breakdown flow. Due to vortex bursting there is a characteristic increase in surface pressure fluctuations with increasing angle of attack, especially when the burst location moves closer to the apex. The pressure fluctuations also show dominant frequencies corresponding to those of the velocity fluctuations. Using the measured flow field data, scaling parameters are derived for design purposes. It is shown that a frequency parameter based on the local semi-span and the sinus of angle of attack can be used to estimate the frequencies of dynamic loads evoked by vortex bursting.

Firstly if you want to quote an article, its good to quote its CONCLUSION part and not the abstract. Abstract is an introduction to the content of the article and Conclusion contains the results of the research article.

Secondly , I dont see any solid reference to the point being discussed. First you referred to structural complexity and then you are referring to turbulence and wake effects etc. But it does not mention that delta, canard and V-tail are incompatible.

The purpose of dual fins mostly is to gain more control of aircraft at high angles of attack. Besides, two small fins are better than one big fin from RCS point of view. Side RCS shall be lower, because one fin will not be visible to the radar.

 

[shehbazi2001]

When that bomber was developed it had simple purpose of flying high and fast. They had no idea what the impact would be if the rudder was placed in the wake of canard turbullence... The problems starts being clear with F14... That one has kind of canards and double rudders... They advised that those canards would stay inside! Each time they see something they did not know.

There is a big difference between the size of a small fighterjet and a bomber. There is a lot of difference how the flight profiles are. And there is something that you surely do not know when you make prototypes. The problems occur often during operational frame.

It is nothing new that if you put a canard in front that causes drag and wake which wil impact the rudder that is placed in the back. Even without a canard you do need to know that two vertical rudders can have impact in they are placed close to eachother (like F15/F14).

About V or normal vertical rudders... If you get terrible airflow you cannot do anything good with them.

Think tank members rule! Good discussion.

Almost all existing vertical fins+elevators face more or less the wake of the canards+wings, whether V-tail or T-tail or dual vertical fin or simple single vertical fin. But this wake effect is serious only at higher angles of attack. To improve controllability at higher angles of attack, designers put dual rudders. But even then the designers have now found methods to address this issue somehow even with a single vertical fin.

 

[shehbazi2001]

I would also like to add that we should use the words "vertical fin" or "vertical stabilizer" instead of rudder because a "rudder" is only the movable part of a vertical stabilizer.

 

[Owais]

Just from engineering point of view Neo... Delta and canards with V tail is not possible. You will have impossible strengthening and accept disfunctional rudder. Fan-art is nice but they never had aviation engineering classes like i did. On the other hand... I suck in producing fan-art...

If it is possible then EF2000 would have it. Do mind that mki is not a delta and the canards are small. And outside the range of the rudders.

I dont know either it is real or mock-up but This thing have V tail and canards as well

 

[lmjiao]

I can assure you that the picture above is a fake one made by a military fan with softwares.

From the official newspapers we can conclude that the 5-th generation fighters are under development, but untill now, no pictures or futher information are open to the public.

The only thing that is certain is that all the pictures of Chinese 5-th generation you can get on line is not true.