PAFAce
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Exactly. You've nailed it. Investing in education and research today will benefit our defence program as well, we just have to be patient.
Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions
- Thread starter EagleEyes
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Exactly. You've nailed it. Investing in education and research today will benefit our defence program as well, we just have to be patient.
Luftwaffe
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Confused where to post! i am posting it here...
An Armature thought...Wish It would come true.
Pakistan future apart from current fleets must include a large fleet of J-10 with state of the art technology it is apparent that J-10s in due time will have state of the art avionics and most importantly AESA radar that at least might be comparable to European counterparts or a step lower and above Russians. A Fleet of 150 J-10s till 2023 that is in next 14 years will ensure Pakistan’s fleet with high-tech Jets. This is my opinion if Pakistan wants a good product we must not look to Europeans or Americans for out next procurement of fighter jets after F-16 due to American and european sanctions factor etc Better our Nuclear Weapons Program continue and advance as well number of Nukes in our stocks and adding more. We must concentrate on J-10 look forward to China as our only guarantor providing us with some of the best weapons on the earth. We have seen Chinese revolution in Weapons and Jets making by the fact that China is in many areas has totally got independence from Russians. I think in next 5 Years China will come up with a better AESA that Russians are offering Indians on MIG-35. It’s a clear sign that China is working on an AESA radar project looking at the development on their AWACS though the radar is not AESA but then again Chinese might be working on AESA version for their AWACS. We know later JXX will appear after 2020 till than we should totally concentrate on Nukes developments and Missiles programs and keep pushing the development of the JF-17 Thunder. I disagree that Pakistan should only develop around 240 JF-17s because we know F-7s and Mirages will be decommissioned around 2018 definitely after giving upgrades to these Jets some members are saying they will soon be decommissioned such statements are foolish. Seriously thinking 240 fleet of JF-17s plus around 54 F-16s not counting J-10s after complete decommissioning of F-7s and Mirages doesn’t make sense. To me Pakistan must have a strong fleet of 400 JF-17s with top notch avionics and new blocks. By new blocks I mean J-17 must be designed sooner or later on basis of F-16. With new engine development in near future by Chinese engineers and enough engineering know how by our hard working Pakistani aeronautical aerospace engineers in due course I am pretty sure we can modify JF-17 block II must equally similar exactly in size and some design to F-16C blk52 if we need JF-17 that can be used for Naval and long range sorties partial deep strikes. I strongly feel that JF-17 blk II must in size and some area of deign should be = F-16C/D if we need something close or or equal to F-16 blk 60 in future. I’m sure some of you will say J-10 is the answer whatever others say it’s their opinion I respect but to me our need for future we must concentrate on JF-17 blk II after first 50 JF-17s or after 100/150 Fleet. 150 JF-17 blk I and 250 JF-17 blk II all equipped with AESA will neutralize the effects of large fleet of Indian Jaguars, Mig 21, Migs 23, Mig 27, Mig 29, Mirage 2000s and lca. We know JF-17 has more room for upgradation and expansion and it is where Migs lack for future looking at their upcoming upgrades and also the age of these old birds.
2024
400 JF-17s Block I/II
150 J-10s Blocks ??
54 F-16s block 52/MLU
If economy was better might get our hands on French Rafale up to 36
640 Fleets
VS
Jaguars 110
Mig 23/Mig27/Mig29/possible Mig35 340
SU-30s 230
FA/18E 126 possible more license to build to round up figure to 200
Mirage 2000s 69-70 plus 30 more purchases from third parties. 100
LCA 250
No MIG 21s
1230-1300 Fleets
This is Just a speculation dream imaginations i am not saying this is going to be the way but it might we can’t say for sure but can hope in regards to Pakistan.
We must not look for quantity frankly quantity is out of our reach. But certainly we can and must reduce this 3:1 to 2:1 till 2024.
Also we must have a robust better Air Defense systems with Army & Air Force we must reach an agreement with China to get stuff that’s top notch when it comes to Defense of our country.
We must obtain in next few years SAMs that are comparable to S-300 or better from China fair enough to protect our Air Space heavily that enemy has to think not twice but thrice. Also this Missile defense System is must for Pakistan sooner or later Indian is getting it from US for sure. If China is working on its Missile Defense System to which frankly I don’t have knowledge if anyone on thread or forum knows let me know thanks..So we must get it whenever it’s available to neutralize the problem the soonest in near future.
640 VS 1300 is not a bad ratio considering India will store almost half of its inventory for China which bring 1:1 in true sense.
An Armature thought...Wish It would come true.
Pakistan future apart from current fleets must include a large fleet of J-10 with state of the art technology it is apparent that J-10s in due time will have state of the art avionics and most importantly AESA radar that at least might be comparable to European counterparts or a step lower and above Russians. A Fleet of 150 J-10s till 2023 that is in next 14 years will ensure Pakistan’s fleet with high-tech Jets. This is my opinion if Pakistan wants a good product we must not look to Europeans or Americans for out next procurement of fighter jets after F-16 due to American and european sanctions factor etc Better our Nuclear Weapons Program continue and advance as well number of Nukes in our stocks and adding more. We must concentrate on J-10 look forward to China as our only guarantor providing us with some of the best weapons on the earth. We have seen Chinese revolution in Weapons and Jets making by the fact that China is in many areas has totally got independence from Russians. I think in next 5 Years China will come up with a better AESA that Russians are offering Indians on MIG-35. It’s a clear sign that China is working on an AESA radar project looking at the development on their AWACS though the radar is not AESA but then again Chinese might be working on AESA version for their AWACS. We know later JXX will appear after 2020 till than we should totally concentrate on Nukes developments and Missiles programs and keep pushing the development of the JF-17 Thunder. I disagree that Pakistan should only develop around 240 JF-17s because we know F-7s and Mirages will be decommissioned around 2018 definitely after giving upgrades to these Jets some members are saying they will soon be decommissioned such statements are foolish. Seriously thinking 240 fleet of JF-17s plus around 54 F-16s not counting J-10s after complete decommissioning of F-7s and Mirages doesn’t make sense. To me Pakistan must have a strong fleet of 400 JF-17s with top notch avionics and new blocks. By new blocks I mean J-17 must be designed sooner or later on basis of F-16. With new engine development in near future by Chinese engineers and enough engineering know how by our hard working Pakistani aeronautical aerospace engineers in due course I am pretty sure we can modify JF-17 block II must equally similar exactly in size and some design to F-16C blk52 if we need JF-17 that can be used for Naval and long range sorties partial deep strikes. I strongly feel that JF-17 blk II must in size and some area of deign should be = F-16C/D if we need something close or or equal to F-16 blk 60 in future. I’m sure some of you will say J-10 is the answer whatever others say it’s their opinion I respect but to me our need for future we must concentrate on JF-17 blk II after first 50 JF-17s or after 100/150 Fleet. 150 JF-17 blk I and 250 JF-17 blk II all equipped with AESA will neutralize the effects of large fleet of Indian Jaguars, Mig 21, Migs 23, Mig 27, Mig 29, Mirage 2000s and lca. We know JF-17 has more room for upgradation and expansion and it is where Migs lack for future looking at their upcoming upgrades and also the age of these old birds.
2024
400 JF-17s Block I/II
150 J-10s Blocks ??
54 F-16s block 52/MLU
If economy was better might get our hands on French Rafale up to 36
640 Fleets
VS
Jaguars 110
Mig 23/Mig27/Mig29/possible Mig35 340
SU-30s 230
FA/18E 126 possible more license to build to round up figure to 200
Mirage 2000s 69-70 plus 30 more purchases from third parties. 100
LCA 250
No MIG 21s
1230-1300 Fleets
This is Just a speculation dream imaginations i am not saying this is going to be the way but it might we can’t say for sure but can hope in regards to Pakistan.
We must not look for quantity frankly quantity is out of our reach. But certainly we can and must reduce this 3:1 to 2:1 till 2024.
Also we must have a robust better Air Defense systems with Army & Air Force we must reach an agreement with China to get stuff that’s top notch when it comes to Defense of our country.
We must obtain in next few years SAMs that are comparable to S-300 or better from China fair enough to protect our Air Space heavily that enemy has to think not twice but thrice. Also this Missile defense System is must for Pakistan sooner or later Indian is getting it from US for sure. If China is working on its Missile Defense System to which frankly I don’t have knowledge if anyone on thread or forum knows let me know thanks..So we must get it whenever it’s available to neutralize the problem the soonest in near future.
640 VS 1300 is not a bad ratio considering India will store almost half of its inventory for China which bring 1:1 in true sense.
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Keysersoze
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luftwaffe
actual numbers will be more like this for iaf around 2024
100-200 PAK-FA
230 mki's
70 mig-29s
50 m2ks
250-300 lca
200 mrca (prolly rafael or typhoon)
so instead of 1300 more like 900-1000
vs
400 jf-17
150 j-10
60 f-16
maybe j-xx
rafael too expensive
as for support aircraft (aewacs, refuellers, and ew)
paf:
10 aewacs (6 eyrie, 4 chinese ones)
20 refuellers
10 ew planes
iaf:
20 aewacs (10 phalcons and 10 ingeneous)
30 refuellers?
20 ew planes
These numbers are probably the dumbest thing i have seen in a long while......
Luftwaffe
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No Indian Jaguars well above 100 are being upgraded or being under upgradation process as well as Indian will do anything to lay its hands on those Mirage 2000 from third parties and upgrade them to bring total number of fleet to 100. Yes possibilities of completely phasing out mig23s is possible till 2019. 100 PAK-FA never for ur sake it'll be only 70
. I'm talking about total number of MIG 29, that is India has 69-70 already plus 16 ordered Naval version, that makes already 85-86 add 15 or 16 more i am sure India loves 100 figure 
. Correct 250 lca, 230 SU-30 MKI after red flag exercises India is not in mood to get more than 230
, I am pretty sure there will be a time when India cries out again and will get 74 license to produce 74 more to bring total number to 200 (My bet FA/18E is certain), you did not read news did you?, India is upgrading more than 100 mig27s they already have about 130-140 mig27s. calculate they won't let these migs go easily before 2027. No fool would decommission a plane after upgrading it i don't think an upgrade is for 4-5 year its for a long term yes again u might be right Indian might decommission atleast 60 of them in 2020 rest will go till 2028.
Still its going to be 1200 fleet. umm JXX i hope if JXX becomes reality and again as you said rafale are expensiveu can expect a better economy by Pakistan till 2020+ till that time Gawadar port will be in full swing i believe. Haven't you read at fullest gawadar can make 60 billion dollars a year though i do not believe it but yes at the most 15 billions dollars and 2020 will be the start of it I can expect atleast that Pakistan will be making 5-6 billion dollars a year from 2018 and beyond. sorry to bring gawadar in this topic
approx 600 V 1200 is expected till 2024 i believe so India is also going towards Quality we've to watch that factor as well.
100 Mirage 2000
100 Mig29
120 Jaguars
120 Mig 27
40 Mig 23
250 lca
230 SU-30
200 FA/18
70 PAK-FA for you
again I strongly have this feeling Pakistan will increase the number of JF-17s to
400 jf-17 BLK I/II
150 J-10
54 F-16
36 rafale
pakistan:add karney mein kya harj hai bhai)
Remember in my earlier post India will store half of the Inventory for China so no worries they are not using it all against Pakistan they have to protect the other side hehe Indians are squeezed. till 2024 along with an Increase in our fleet Quality will be at the peak for Pakistan Air Force.
. I'm talking about total number of MIG 29, that is India has 69-70 already plus 16 ordered Naval version, that makes already 85-86 add 15 or 16 more i am sure India loves 100 figure . Correct 250 lca, 230 SU-30 MKI after red flag exercises India is not in mood to get more than 230, I am pretty sure there will be a time when India cries out again and will get 74 license to produce 74 more to bring total number to 200 (My bet FA/18E is certain), you did not read news did you?, India is upgrading more than 100 mig27s they already have about 130-140 mig27s. calculate they won't let these migs go easily before 2027. No fool would decommission a plane after upgrading it i don't think an upgrade is for 4-5 year its for a long term yes again u might be right Indian might decommission atleast 60 of them in 2020 rest will go till 2028. Still its going to be 1200 fleet. umm JXX i hope if JXX becomes reality and again as you said rafale are expensive
u can expect a better economy by Pakistan till 2020+ till that time Gawadar port will be in full swing i believe. Haven't you read at fullest gawadar can make 60 billion dollars a year though i do not believe it but yes at the most 15 billions dollars and 2020 will be the start of it I can expect atleast that Pakistan will be making 5-6 billion dollars a year from 2018 and beyond. sorry to bring gawadar in this topicapprox 600 V 1200 is expected till 2024 i believe so India is also going towards Quality we've to watch that factor as well.
100 Mirage 2000
100 Mig29
120 Jaguars
120 Mig 27
40 Mig 23
250 lca
230 SU-30
200 FA/18
70 PAK-FA for you
again I strongly have this feeling Pakistan will increase the number of JF-17s to
400 jf-17 BLK I/II
150 J-10
54 F-16
36 rafale
pakistan:add karney mein kya harj hai bhai)Remember in my earlier post India will store half of the Inventory for China so no worries they are not using it all against Pakistan they have to protect the other side hehe Indians are squeezed. till 2024 along with an Increase in our fleet Quality will be at the peak for Pakistan Air Force.
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Keysersoze
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Ok now you have started as well....this is now starting to get stupid....... time to let this thread have a break until you guys come to your senses...
A request to the moderator(s)/Admin(s).
Please do not close threads that go out of control, instead warn, brig or ban the offenders. Closing a thread is penalizing the serious members because of the actions of some over-enthusiastic trolls and is unfair. Infact, it provides an opportunity for anyone to derail the topic and have it closed.
Sorry for the off-topic post. Just a suggestion/request, rest you guys know best how to run the forum.
Please do not close threads that go out of control, instead warn, brig or ban the offenders. Closing a thread is penalizing the serious members because of the actions of some over-enthusiastic trolls and is unfair. Infact, it provides an opportunity for anyone to derail the topic and have it closed.
Sorry for the off-topic post. Just a suggestion/request, rest you guys know best how to run the forum.
iceman2009
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Those Air force numbers are outrageous for two developing countries..
We are not oil rich arabs or Western Europeans..
Look at our GDPs or defense budgets first,,, look were we are heading
AT BEST THEY WILL BE BY 2020
PAF 70 F16 52/MLU
60 FC20/J10
140 JF17 block 1 & 2
80 F7P/PG
350 FIGHTERS (230 NEW FIGHTERS IN 11 Years) not bad for a country with a GDP of $160b & defense budget of $6b currently
compare
IAF 200 SU30MKI
100 MRCA RAFAEL/F18
80 Tejas 1/2
50 mirage 2000-5
60 mig29smt
70 jaguar
550 planes ( 280 new planes in 11 years)
Only 70 more planes from a country with a $1.1 trillion gdp and defense budget of $27b currently
We are not oil rich arabs or Western Europeans..
Look at our GDPs or defense budgets first,,, look were we are heading
AT BEST THEY WILL BE BY 2020
PAF 70 F16 52/MLU
60 FC20/J10
140 JF17 block 1 & 2
80 F7P/PG
350 FIGHTERS (230 NEW FIGHTERS IN 11 Years) not bad for a country with a GDP of $160b & defense budget of $6b currently
compare
IAF 200 SU30MKI
100 MRCA RAFAEL/F18
80 Tejas 1/2
50 mirage 2000-5
60 mig29smt
70 jaguar
550 planes ( 280 new planes in 11 years)
Only 70 more planes from a country with a $1.1 trillion gdp and defense budget of $27b currently
PAFAce
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Pakistan: An advanced jet designed, developed and produced in 10 years, not bad for a country with a GDP per capita of $2,600 (in a steady incline since 2003) and 40.8 million people below the poverty line.
Not Pakistan: An advanced jet in production for 10 years but not yet completed, not bad for a country with a GDP per capita of $2,900 (down $1,100 in 1 year) and 285 million people below the poverty line
Sources:
CIA World Fact Book
Index Mundi
(Sorry mods, could not resist. It will never happen again.)
Not Pakistan: An advanced jet in production for 10 years but not yet completed, not bad for a country with a GDP per capita of $2,900 (down $1,100 in 1 year) and 285 million people below the poverty line
Sources:
CIA World Fact Book
Index Mundi
(Sorry mods, could not resist. It will never happen again.)
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Quwa
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PAC clearly stated that they will produce 50 JF-17 a year to meet the PAF's requirement of 250-300 by 2019. Beyond this PakDef has the FC-20 figures at 60~150...with the first batch of initial 36 arriving in 2010-2011. PAF will retain its F-7PG and Mirage ROSE as well.
hj786
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I understand keeping F-7PG, those things are nearly new. But Mirage ROSE? Do those airframes still have lots of life left? Which ones will be kept? If the older airframes will stick around too, does it make financial sense to keep rebuilding them?
I am guessing only the strike platforms (ROSE 2 and 3?) will be kept in service since the interceptor platforms (ROSE 1?) will be replaced by the JF-17.
I like the ROSE Mirages very much but I don't see the point of spending money to rebuild them all the time, especially when the ROSE 1 interceptor variants are pretty much obsolete anyway.
Just to not go off the topic, Mark weren't some of your sources at Pakdef also saying that J-10s could POSSIBLY arrive at the end of this year?
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Quwa
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Who was it specifically?
hj786
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Can't remember, but I thought I read that somewhere either on Pakdef or PDF. Never mind, probably just me.
shehbazi2001
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Actually the Nov 2008 issue of Asian Military Review also says that initial 26 J-10s shall be delivered to Pakistan in 2009.
I dont know the exact configuration of J-10 but perhaps these initial 26 birds may be inducted with chinese weapons and avionics. Any modifications of western avionics and weapons carried out in china on these fighters specifically for Pakistan are not known.
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