Chasing the Dragon

[jdme]

Well the OP is quite accurate, I don't see the point. Even in so called BRICs, neither India nor China lead the "pack" sans economy due to their massive population.

 

[roadrunner]

Sorry, but that make no sense. May be am not 'sophisticated' enough. As long as there are independent thoughts given to us by nature or by some deity there WILL BE inequality, in ideas, labor, and products. In short, there will be inequality in everything.

A purely Communist society is possible. It may not be best for every country just as capitalism or even democracy may not be.

Communism doesn't mean everyone is equal in thoughts and ideas. In fact a true Communist society could not function if everyone thought the same things.

Communism just means equality in front of the law, equality in finances etc etc. Not in individual thought or ideas etc etc.

 

[gambit]

A purely Communist society is possible.

Yes it is. The family unit and the monastery.

It may not be best for every country just as capitalism or even democracy may not be.

So far the democracy/capitalism combo worked pretty good.

Communism doesn't mean everyone is equal in thoughts and ideas. In fact a true Communist society could not function if everyone thought the same things.

Actually, the more sheeple there are the better the communism society will take root and hold.

Communism just means equality in front of the law,...

Fair enough

...equality in finances etc etc. Not in individual thought or ideas etc etc.

How do you mean 'equality in finances'? You mean if I work hard and make more money than you that give you justification to take from me?

 

[jdme]

If all my thinking leads to a life which is equal to that of a street bum who just lives on government welfare, why would I even bother to think? Monetary gain has been one of most important motivators behind most human adventures.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

A family unit and a monastry is NOT cummunism, but dictatorship. Communism is about pure equality in EVERYTHING.

Haha, everything should be equal? That means my wife should not be more pretty than others'? Oh, evil. Haha

 

[OrionHunter]

In fact the gap is increasing constantly, which makes sense considering the fact that China has averaged much higher growth rates than India has, with a larger base economy. In order to catch up, India is going to have to significantly bypass China's growth rate, since their base economic size is much smaller.

You seem to not understand the basic reason as to why the gap is so wide. You see, India is a flourishing democracy in contrast to a one party China that steam-rolls its way to get things done. The ordinary folk don't have a chance against the State to protest the usurping their lands by the State. Protesters are just imprisoned or shot if they even think of fighting for their rights. How many millions have been displaced to make Shangai?

You can't trample on citizens rights in India. Acquiring land, for example for industrialization and power generation etc, is easier said than done. It take years in contrast to China. Well, that's the pitfall of a democratic system. The people voices count unlike China where the Party is supreme. Fall out of line and you're screwed!

But India will soon catch up. India has other advantages that China doesn't. It's just a question of time. China's economic bubble will soon burst, as the US of A's economy goes kaput! Then we'll talk!

Cheers!

 

[oct605032048]

You seem to not understand the basic reason as to why the gap is so wide. You see, India is a flourishing democracy in contrast to a one party China that steam-rolls its way to get things done. The ordinary folk don't have a chance against the State to protest the usurping their lands by the State. Protesters are just imprisoned or shot if they even think of fighting for their rights. How many millions have been displaced to make Shangai?

You can't trample on citizens rights in India. Acquiring land, for example for industrialization and power generation etc, is easier said than done. It take years in contrast to China. Well, that's the pitfall of a democratic system. The people voices count unlike China where the Party is supreme. Fall out of line and you're screwed!

But India will soon catch up. India has other advantages that China doesn't. It's just a question of time. China's economic bubble will soon burst, as the US of A's economy goes kaput! Then we'll talk!

Cheers!

Instead of crapping nonsense, you could have just said 'you're screwed and india will catch up'. By doing so you could have saved a penny of electricity fee which is important for your countryman to make a day's living.

 

[oct605032048]

I have to point out that the Economist is compareing 2010's India and 2000's
China to a degree.At least, I know many datas are 2000's China census datas
.For example,the adult literacy has rise to 96%(94% in 2000);Car per 1000
pop is 75,not 2000's data,34.

 

[roadrunner]

Yes it is. The family unit and the monastery.

I suppose a family unit could be a Communist replica.

What would the Capitalist equivalent be? A dysfunctional family? One kid leaves school at 15, the other becomes a professor, parents end up living the high life and squandering everything?

So far the democracy/capitalism combo worked pretty good.

It does in the US but even now you see more socialist policies becoming more important. Obama was accused of being a Socialist if I'm not mistaken.

Actually, the more sheeple there are the better the communism society will take root and hold.

This applies to Capitalist societies equally. The more sheeple, the easier it is to swindle the population.

The same applies to Communist or any other society.

In fact I think Communist societies function best when people aren't sheeple but they haven't got a competitive greed instinct.

Fair enough

How do you mean 'equality in finances'? You mean if I work hard and make more money than you that give you justification to take from me?

In essence you would be a selfless immaterialistic individual. The question is do you consider this to be a good trait?

 

[Developereo]

I don't know which country has more entrepeneurs. If you take a look at the Chinese and Indian diaspora you will see that the Chinese generaly have more economic cloud and the Indian more political cloud.

The Indians are the best students of the Zionist lobbying machine.

For all their technical and economic prowess, the Chinese still haven't caught up with that skill.

 

[gambit]

I suppose a family unit could be a Communist replica.

What would the Capitalist equivalent be? A dysfunctional family? One kid leaves school at 15, the other becomes a professor, parents end up living the high life and squandering everything?

You cannot take an anomaly to be emblematic of the theory. Every family is 'dysfunctional' to some degree. But the point here is that the family CANNOT be anything but a Marxist dictatorship. You have members of this society that for a large measure of their lives are incapable of making wise decisions and need guidance. That is what the parents are for. No matter how flawed their decisions may be, those decisions are still far better than what the children can do for themselves. The father is usually the figure who does the physical 'manly' jobs around the house so he will need to use more of the family's resources to satisfy those responsibilities. The children may have some responsibilities but far less demanding so they will receive less of the family's resources. Remember the Marxist credo: From each according to the his abilities. To each according to his needs.

It does in the US but even now you see more socialist policies becoming more important. Obama was accused of being a Socialist if I'm not mistaken.

What is usually accepted as nominally 'socialist' policies were previously considered to be moral imperatives. Eventually some became legal obligations. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the people are PERSUADED into believing that these programs are morally worthwhile beyond their personal moral realm.

This applies to Capitalist societies equally. The more sheeple, the easier it is to swindle the population.

Sorry, but you are wrong here. And it is not capitalist but democratic. If people are so easily convinced to give up their intellectual and emotional resources towards an ideology or political persuasions, we would not have campaign reasons and seasons, no political parties, no national debates, no exposures of scandals, no 'dirty' politics, no 'mudslinging', no fixing the ballot boxes or at least charges thereof, no elections laws, and the list goes on. Do you see any of those under dictatorships? More like bullets than ballots.

In fact I think Communist societies function best when people aren't sheeple but they haven't got a competitive greed instinct.

Yeah...Good luck in trying to remove greed from the human nature. Communists tried and failed.

In essence you would be a selfless immaterialistic individual. The question is do you consider this to be a good trait?

Of course it would be. Was that not Jesus? But look at it this way, there is NOTHING to prevent you or I or Bill Gates from giving away most our earned income and accumulated wealth, keeping only what we need to survive. But we have to do it from internal compulsions, not external coercion.

You still have not answered the essence of my question, so I will put it another way: If I cut ten cords of wood and you cut only five, even though I need only five cords of wood to keep warm, give me a morally compelling argument that you have the right to take away the excess of the fruits of my labor. Not that I can give away. But that you have the right to TAKE what I do not need.

 

[Developereo]

If I can interject, the fundamental flaw in communism is that it doesn't scale up beyond a certain point.

Most people are not heartless; they would love to live in a society where basic needs are guaranteed for everyone. The only requirement is that everyone contribute to the best of their ability. It doesn't even have to be equal contribution; just equal effort. In small communities, there is peer pressure for people to abide by this expectation but, once a group becomes large enough to afford anonymity, that social pressure dissipates and the basic contract breaks down.

 

[JustForFun]

A 'dictatorship' is a catch-all term for any country that does not allow competing political ideas. I said 'not allow'. Did not say 'does not have'. An allowance simply encourages the creation thereof. Anyway, a 'communist' country not only violently suppresses competing political parties but also enforces, not encourages, characteristics of communism, such as communal property, anti-capitalism, and conformity. A dictatorship can encourages capitalism under state controlled capitalism like China today. So yes, we can dispense with the label 'communist' for China and insert 'dictatorship'. For Cuba, can still keep the 'communist' label. Same for the former USSR.

Well actually communism is:
a classless stateless society with common ownership of means of production and free access to articles of consumption in which everybody had equal say in decision making.
So the characteristics are:
1. classless
2. stateless
3. common ownership of means of prodcution
4. Free access to articles of consumption
5. equal say in decision making.

So lets examen for the USSR:
1. Classless - Nope, politicians certainly were another class to common workers
2. stateless - Nope, noe need to explain this
3. common ownership of means of production - Nope, state ownership
4. Free access to articles of consumption - Nope, except mayby for healthcare
5. equal say in decision making - ROFL.

The USSR just scored 1 in 5 if I am very very generous.

 

[JustForFun]

If I can interject, the fundamental flaw in communism is that it doesn't scale up beyond a certain point.

Not only does is not scale beyond a certain point, it alse stops working when there is an interaction needed with other societies. Because if everything is free, it is worthless (a value of 0). But as soon as there is trade with others, the products stop being worthless (a value > 0), so you need a monetairy system => there goes communism.

 

[Veeru]

The economist should get its facts corrected they are still using old data about India for example literacy