Changing times: Ijtihad and other questions Muslims must revisit

[Gunsnroses]

I won't be going to any ulema based Islamist forum for ijtihad if that's what you want! I hate these dumb braindead ulema who have produced nothing but misery for the 1.6 billion human beings called Muslims for the past 1000 years. I do not expect any kind of ijtihad, reformation of Islam from those lunatics and morons who are only educated from creepy madrassas, and therefore know nothing about real world issues.

You got me wrong there. I most certainly won't either do so. Anyways!

 

[syedali73]

I won't be going to any ulema based Islamist forum for ijtihad if that's what you want! I hate these dumb braindead ulema who have produced nothing but misery for the 1.6 billion human beings called Muslims for the past 1000 years. I do not expect any kind of ijtihad, reformation of Islam from those lunatics and morons who are only educated from creepy madrassas, and therefore know nothing about real world issues.

So what you have done in this regard? Ever picked up a religious book and tried to understand or researched on it? Complaining is the easiest thing to do in the world but coming up with a solution is what is needed. I have no right to ridicule others while myself not making any effort.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I have enough knowledge of ancient Hindu texts and I can tell them which Hindu god married how many and had how many concubines

Please enlighten us. You could have replied in a different way stating that his conclusions are wrong. But no, you had to drag Hinduism into this mess to find equivalence. So now that you have done that, pray, educate us about the details. I can assure you that you won't be reported unless you use any vulgar adjectives.

On the subject, where did you learn Sanskrit from? Without a rudimentary knowledge of classical Sanskirt a first hand information of the scriptures becomes very difficult. Otherwise you can also let us know about the prominent historians who you have read that led you to have the 'knowledge of ancient Hindu text'.

I can assure you again, that only the fallacy of your argument(the threat of bringing in equivalence) will be proved.

@Akheilos - Off topic: Will tag you in Whatever...

 

[Gunsnroses]

Please enlighten us. You could have replied in a different way stating that his conclusions are wrong. But no, you had to drag Hinduism into this mess to find equivalence. So now that you have done that, pray, educate us about the details. I can assure you that you won't be reported unless you use any vulgar adjectives.

On the subject, where did you learn Sanskrit from? Without a rudimentary knowledge of classical Sanskirt a first hand information of the scriptures becomes very difficult? Otherwise you can also let us know about the prominent historians who you have read that led you to have the 'knowledge of ancient Hindu text'.

I can assure you again, that only the fallacy of your argument(the threat of bringing in equivalence) will be proved.

Just a small note. Most hindus are also eager to quote verses from Quran and hadiths. Your message should be reciprocated for them as well. That's all.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

oh i thought you were calling me an ignorant like him lollllzzzz :p

Lol.. So he is ignorant but Zarvan enlightened?

 

[Norwegian]

So what you have done in this regard? Ever picked up a religious book and tried to understand or researched on it? Complaining is the easiest thing to do in the world but coming up with a solution is what is needed. I have no right to ridicule others while myself not making any effort.

LOL. Its not my job to do ijtihad alone. Other Muslims must come up with suggestions as well. Did you know that ijtihad was very common among practicing Muslims for the first 300 years of Islam?

Around the beginning of the 900s, most Sunni jurists argued that all major matters of religious law had been settled, allowing for taqlid, "the established legal precedents and traditions," to take priority over ijtihad. However, the Shi'i Muslims recognized "human reasoning and intellect as a legal source that supplements the Quran and other revealed texts," thus continuing to acknowledge the importance of ijtihad. Due to the Sunni movement towards taqlid during this era, some Western scholars today argue that this period led to the notion of the "closure of the doors of ijtihad" in Islam. Joseph Schacht, a well-known Western scholar argued, "closure of the door ofijtihad" had occurred by the beginning of the 10th century CE: "hence a consensus gradually established itself to the effect that from that time onwards no one could be deemed to have the necessary qualifications for independent reasoning in religious law, and that all future activity would have to be confined to the explanation, application, and, at the most, interpretation of the doctrine as it had been laid down once and for all." (Other scholars believe that debates about the `closing of the gate of ijtihad` "were not apparent in legal literature until the end of the eleventh century, and even then only as a theoretical issue".

Ijtihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No outsider conspired against Muslims that led to closure of ijtihad in Islam. It was our established rigid clergy that took that decision for the rest of Ummah and its consecutive downfall. Water must flow endlessly, otherwise it stinks. Islam as it's practiced today is not flowing at all as it remains unreformed and therefore stinks like steady water of the swamp!

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Just a small note. Most hindus are also eager to quote verses from Quran and hadiths. Your message should be reciprocated for them as well. That's all.

Very true. But Qu'ran in comparison has a slight problem - 'the finality of the message'. That rules out a revolutionary reinterpretation for example. Besides Indians don't give original Arabic quotes but do from accepted and trustworthy sources like say Pickthall etc. So the authenticity cannot be seriously questioned.

I personally have no issues if you quote the Rig Veda etc at all. Only difference is that in Indian scriptures the message is subject to change like everything else in the universe. So quote from respectable sources, and we can discuss. Because Sanskrit is a multi-dimensional language (a single word has many many meanings ), it requires trained people to decipher the real context and meaning. Quran has a far more literal message to convey, while the Indian scriptures are very different. To simply say - not literal at all.

Personally I have read the Md. Pickthall's Qu'ran translation. Not any hadith though.

 

[Gunsnroses]

Very true. But Qu'ran in comparison has a slight problem - 'the finality of the message'. That rules out a revolutionary reinterpretation for example. Besides Indians don't give original quotes but do from accepted and trustworthy sources like say Pickthall etc. So the authenticity cannot be seriously questioned.

I personally have no issues if you quote the Rig Veda etc at all. Only difference is that in Indian scriptures the message is subject to change like everything else in the universe. So quote from respectable sources, and we can discuss. Because Sanskrit is a multi-dimensional language (a single word has many many meanings ), it requires trained people to decipher the real context and meaning. Quran has a far more literal message to convey, while the Indian scriptures are very different. To simply say - not literal at all.

Personally I have read the Md. Pickthall's Qu'ran translation. Not any hadith though.

No, this is where you stand corrected. Most of the wrong going on right now is because Quranic verses were taken literary. Examples are Talibans, ISIS, Boko they all interpret Quran according to their whims and wills and later issue a fatwa. That's why traditional scholars condemn them. Arabic language in Quran, time of revelations, context behind revelation and there is a lot to consider before coming up with summing up. Why do you think people learn Quran by heart? Translation might come close but twist starts when you interpret it as per YOUR understanding. This is a whole science if that is the correct word which requires years to study and even then modests do not dare to interpret on their own. Hadiths is another art which runs side by side with the Quran. Unless you have command on both and many other branches of jurisprudence, you cannot utter a single word out of your own understanding.

 

[Zarvan]

@Horus @Oscar @WebMaster Why this thread is still running ?

 

[Norwegian]

@Horus @Oscar @WebMaster Why this thread is still running ?

What's wrong with this thread? If you get sensitive problems reading this thread, don't visit it. Are you screaming and calling moderators for rescue because your jahil ulemas are being exposed here? Each and every time someone raises issues of ijtihad in Islam, orthodoxy which you represent start bullying such sane voices into submission.

 

[VCheng]

Islam is a balanced religion; there is neither radicalism nor liberalism in Islam. But there are two groups of (Gumraah)people; one is leading Islam towards radicalism and the other is taking it towards liberalism.

So who is "right"? Everyone likes to think they are the ones defining what the center and correct position should be.

Like George Carlin said, "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

 

[Sugarcane]

What's wrong with this thread?

I don't know what's going on in this thread but one thing i am sure about is that if @Zarvan is asking to close the thread than Islam will be in danger

 

[Jf Thunder]

Lol.. So he is ignorant but Zarvan enlightened?

Yes, Zarvan is first only to Mullah Fazlullah lolllzzzzzz (no offense meant )

 

[Zarvan]

I don't know what's going on in this thread but one thing i am sure about is that if @Zarvan is asking to close the thread than Islam will be in danger

Religious topics are banned and the ...... who started this thread thinks he knows Islam better than Sahabas and wives off PROPHET SAW

 

[Dubious]

Did you just curse my country? What is wrong with you? If you are drunk get off the forum idiot! Reported Izzat tou tum ko raaz hi nai atti!

THIS is what I wrote! Not regarding whatever you said abt the prophet´s wife bit....

loose ur temper n call me idiot

and I answered why I lost my temper:

Izzat tou tum ko raaz hi nai atti!

please before quoting out of context take a look at what you wrote!

Regarding Isis there are many formers in this forum itself who consider them model Muslims. There are many contradictions in what u believe. Refrain frm calling names

Well then go lock horns with them! Not my country

If you can point a single contradiction then talk otherwise stop trolling!

I didnt call you no name I addressed you for what you showed to be from your post:

I hope Isis wil come knocking in Pakistan soon

'Hybrid's don't create problems. The 'purists' do that.

No hybrids just get confused and confuse others..

Claiming to worship 1 god and no other then sit next to an elephant statue...its a mess...and a problem known as contradiction as well as hypocrisy!