Changing Dynamics of Air Warfare in South Asia

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Again what is past is past. We need to prepare for the future. I think we need to be positive but not underestimate the issues facing us. I gave the example of Badr and Uhad. People need to read the Quran to see what I mean. The ayat of Allah are a stark reminder of how a slight mistake was turned into a degrading defeat. Subhanallah if it can Happen when Habeeb of Allah SAW was amongst the best of the ummah then it can happen to us. We must all take Badr as our benchmark and study and contemplate how Rasool of Allah SAW Prayed and cried to Allah all night for us to understand what himility is. It is the most important lesson we have not learnt yet and we need to do so to be secured against the hardships of any defeats that come our way subsequently before Allah izza waJal granta us victory.
A

Of course brother.

PAF has people that are studying and planning strategically day in and day out. They're not going to take the Operation Swift Retort victory for granted and suddenly become complacent. They have thousands of plans and scenarios honed for years to come. All centred around, if that happens, then do this and If that then this and so on.

PAF had planned and prepared for Balakot flop and Balakot success. Alhamdu'lillah, it was a Balakot flop so the appropriate retaliation took place. Had it been Balakot success, then also the alternative appropriate retaliation would've taken place.

What I am surprised with how Indians found themselves in total shock on 27th February. I remember one Indian anchor on NDTV News asking their guest (retired military?), "Were we not prepared for this? Did we not think Pakistan will retaliate and how we would respond?" (paraphrased)

I also remember another retired military personal shouting at an anchor, asking him to shut up, change his attitude how he's talking and show respect to him because he was older than him. The anchor complied.

Now, whoever planned and plotted the Balakot flop on the Indian side did not think of the consequences and why they thought Pakistan would not retaliate is beyond me considering.

 

[TsAr]

Why wasn't IAF up to mark already?

Like PAF, IAF also have issues, now they are on a procurement spree but things take time. Pilots take time to get used to new systems.

 

[Signalian]

and should have mourned the 300 "dead" madrassah students---and made the world know---they killed out 300 students---we had to strike hard in revenge---.

and "Created" a war that was correctly avoided. Also admitted that such camps as well as 300 students existed who had been trained specifically to enter India. Your posts will come alive in upcoming bollywood movies.

Paf had its own internal grown fears hold them back---the lack of numbers----.

Didnt hold PAF back in 1965, 1971, 1999 or 2019.
Wouldn't hold PAF back in future also because its a fact that PAF had accepted decades also. IAF will always be numerically superior.

When the world would come looking and tell you---where the 300 dead madrassah students---there is no clue of any dead---you would say---how could we know---the enemy claimed and we thought they were obliterated and we had a lot of public pressure on us thus we had to strike hard otherwise the public was at our throats---.

We found an IAF pilot within seconds getting beaten up by locals, but we couldn't find 300 bodies. The world is naive and plain stupid. Pakistan is supposed to follow and act on Indian narrative - the Pakistani leadership is led by India?

Could have decimated the indian air strike force in kashmir and the sub in the ocean---and the world would not have questioned---.

Perfect opportunity to start a war - bas kisi tareekay se jang shuru ho jaye. It's Pakistan's fault for not starting war even when India was giving hints and opportunities. Pakistan should have fallen in trap set by India.

Preface: Uri drama failed. Surgical strike was rebuffed. Bollywood movie made.

Step 1: Stage an attack in Pulwama
Step 2: Start a media campaign and escalate the situation on borders
Step 3: Send Mirage 2000 to lure PAF
Step 4: Bomb an imaginary undefined target - unfortunate trees
Step 5: Let Pakistan start a war.
Step 6: Attack Pakistan with full force and make complete use of two front war.
Pakistan slapped India at Stage 4 and rest is history. Escalation kept alive through news of SSm deployment.

Slapped hard after IAF failure, time for IN to be brought into the scene, sub sent and detected. Back to square one - LOC.

 

[Tumba]

Without Air Dominance no short or long term wars can be won, I see lots of posters here bash Russian fighters including some Indians for some reasons like support/logistics rightly so but how many of you have personally know the details of Russians Platforms?

If I have to present you an analogy I will say its like Windows vs Linux ...
Windows are Nato fighters Much more in numbers costly and has lot of eco systems of programs/weapons systems in Nato case.
Lately Russians basically are willing to sell their fighters as a platform for cheap in Linux case basically free but an end user with Russian support can mix match 100 different suppliers and can basically mate all the western internals and make the overall system in many cases even superior.

Su-30 MKI was such a case specially in 2000s, its due for MLU but its still as potent in South Asian skies as latest F-15s in far east and Euro canards in Europe.

And no matter what pakistani posters write and reality is completely different in no parameter F-16 Blk 52 trumped MKI on 27 Feb, MKI was and still is a monster in front of BLK52 and never in past 10 years a BLK52 from any exercise were able to paint MKI in BVR...
And with the planned MLU Su-30 MKI will become even more lethal and will be premier Air Dominance fighter in IAF not Rafale.

Many ppl who knows the mission profile from both sides of border only missions flown by F-16s near MKI CAPs were supersonic withdrawals.

Even after Rafale the most powerful radar in any fighter will remain in MKI kitty and after MLU even more powerful hybrid PESA will keep on MKI as top predators in South Asian skies.

 

[SIPRA]

Now it is even impossible to laugh on posts such as the above @SIPRA

Is it disassociationism ... or mental absentism ... difficult to diagnose @Windjammer

However, one thing remains true that Gangum Besharamum Sundrum ... keeps PDF a fun place....

@newb3e looks like the poster above needs some GoldenJuice Booster!

Tumba is again "wajjing".

 

[Signalian]

Without Air Dominance no short or long term wars can be won, I see lots of posters here bash Russian fighters including some Indians for some reasons like support/logistics rightly so but how many of you have personally know the details of Russians Platforms?

If I have to present you an analogy I will say its like Windows vs Linux ...
Windows are Nato fighters Much more in numbers costly and has lot of eco systems of programs/weapons systems in Nato case.
Lately Russians basically are willing to sell their fighters as a platform for cheap in Linux case basically free but an end user with Russian support can mix match 100 different suppliers and can basically mate all the western internals and make the overall system in many cases even superior.

Su-30 MKI was such a case specially in 2000s, its due for MLU but its still as potent in South Asian skies as latest F-15s in far east and Euro canards in Europe.

And no matter what pakistani posters write and reality is completely different in no parameter F-16 Blk 52 trumped MKI on 27 Feb, MKI was and still is a monster in front of BLK52 and never in past 10 years a BLK52 from any exercise were able to paint MKI in BVR...
And with the planned MLU Su-30 MKI will become even more lethal and will be premier Air Dominance fighter in IAF not Rafale.

Many ppl who knows the mission profile from both sides of border only missions flown by F-16s near MKI CAPs were supersonic withdrawals.

Even after Rafale the most powerful radar in any fighter will remain in MKI kitty and after MLU even more powerful hybrid PESA will keep on MKI as top predators in South Asian skies.

... and This is exactly why, Ladies and Gentlemen, IT and AEROSPACE are separate fields.

 

[newb3e]

Now it is even impossible to laugh on posts such as the above @SIPRA

Is it disassociationism ... or mental absentism ... difficult to diagnose @Windjammer

However, one thing remains true that Gangum Besharamum Sundrum ... keeps PDF a fun place....

@newb3e looks like the poster above needs some GoldenJuice Booster!

sanghi bhungees are like zombie baboons they smell bs and start thumping their boobies! i thank god that we are blessed with such entertaining delusional enemy! their arrogance and over confidence will be the reason they end!!

i have no hate for indians or hindus i hate arrogant piece of sh1ts who think their small weiner can fk the world and rule over everything but in reality they suffer from ED kaam keh waqt in ka flag lower he rehta hai!

Without Air Dominance no short or long term wars can be won, I see lots of posters here bash Russian fighters including some Indians for some reasons like support/logistics rightly so but how many of you have personally know the details of Russians Platforms?

If I have to present you an analogy I will say its like Windows vs Linux ...
Windows are Nato fighters Much more in numbers costly and has lot of eco systems of programs/weapons systems in Nato case.
Lately Russians basically are willing to sell their fighters as a platform for cheap in Linux case basically free but an end user with Russian support can mix match 100 different suppliers and can basically mate all the western internals and make the overall system in many cases even superior.

Su-30 MKI was such a case specially in 2000s, its due for MLU but its still as potent in South Asian skies as latest F-15s in far east and Euro canards in Europe.

And no matter what pakistani posters write and reality is completely different in no parameter F-16 Blk 52 trumped MKI on 27 Feb, MKI was and still is a monster in front of BLK52 and never in past 10 years a BLK52 from any exercise were able to paint MKI in BVR...
And with the planned MLU Su-30 MKI will become even more lethal and will be premier Air Dominance fighter in IAF not Rafale.

Many ppl who knows the mission profile from both sides of border only missions flown by F-16s near MKI CAPs were supersonic withdrawals.

Even after Rafale the most powerful radar in any fighter will remain in MKI kitty and after MLU even more powerful hybrid PESA will keep on MKI as top predators in South Asian skies.

yabbbaa dabbba doooo!!

jai siri paye!

 

[newb3e]

Same here, dear Brother mine!

I never engaged in any of the stuff regarding Gangum Mahaum Chootium .... I still believe every single person on this earth is more human than I am.

But after the ongoing Genocide of PakKashmiris and that 26th Attack on OurLand... I have made a committment to keep these dark creatures in their place...since, they have lost touch with anything remotely Human.

And this arrogance... I have seen it in real life as well... this utter delusion of being 'superior'.... thinking OurPeople to be meleech... I say CrushGanguz anywhere, everywhere.

However, we should NEVER overestimate ourselves and this time NO Peace n Love crap... and if our boys get the lock..they KILL... same for OurNavy... I am still cross that PNS wasn't allowed to sink that
Sub!

PakistanZindabad

DownGanguzDown

i have a theory this racist hindutuva wont succeed in throwing out Muslims and sane indians wont enjoy life under safron rule and their will be protests and to save their hindutva ego they will end up attacking Pakistan and try and unite india so tought time ahead from Pakistan! and this war might end us (Allah na karay) or end india (insha Allah) but many innocents will die!

 

[MastanKhan]

and "Created" a war that was correctly avoided. Also admitted that such camps as well as 300 students existed who had been trained specifically to enter India. Your posts will come alive in upcoming bollywood movies.


Didnt hold PAF back in 1965, 1971, 1999 or 2019.
Wouldn't hold PAF back in future also because its a fact that PAF had accepted decades also. IAF will always be numerically superior.


We found an IAF pilot within seconds getting beaten up by locals, but we couldn't find 300 bodies. The world is naive and plain stupid. Pakistan is supposed to follow and act on Indian narrative - the Pakistani leadership is led by India?


Perfect opportunity to start a war - bas kisi tareekay se jang shuru ho jaye. It's Pakistan's fault for not starting war even when India was giving hints and opportunities. Pakistan should have fallen in trap set by India.

Preface: Uri drama failed. Surgical strike was rebuffed. Bollywood movie made.

Step 1: Stage an attack in Pulwama
Step 2: Start a media campaign and escalate the situation on borders
Step 3: Send Mirage 2000 to lure PAF
Step 4: Bomb an imaginary undefined target - unfortunate trees
Step 5: Let Pakistan start a war.
Step 6: Attack Pakistan with full force and make complete use of two front war.
Pakistan slapped India at Stage 4 and rest is history. Escalation kept alive through news of SSm deployment.

Slapped hard after IAF failure, time for IN to be brought into the scene, sub sent and detected. Back to square one - LOC.

Hi,

I thought you were more intelligent than that---.

In due time---it would have been found out after the action---there were no 300 dead---. How---by using the same photography---time stamped photos---damage to the area or lack of damage---no remains of the dead---.

Think Tank---when a large bomb explodes in a confined space of a room filled with 300 students---the damage to the limb and body is atrocious---body parts---skin and flesh pieces---blood splatter flies far and away---and this being a wooded area---pieces of flesh and skin and bllod droplets could fly a 50 / 100 yards away and be hanging on tree limbs---or a head blown away could be sitting behind a rock after it had rolled down a hill.

Plus where would the mourning families of the "300" students disappear if there were no deaths---.

You kids try every opportunity to put me down---don't take my posts personal---don't cut your nose to spite your face---.

There was no war---india was only testing the capabilities of the Pak military and the pak air force as a pre cursor to Kashmir annexation

So---if the war had started what would have happened---.

You had already shot down possibly 6 of their SU30;s---maybe a couple of mirage 2000's and a mig 21 and sunk a frontline submarine---.

Basically in the first hour of the counter strike---you had smashed the enemy power base to smithereens---the enemy air force pilot's psyche would have been shattered by this news of the JF17 downing the mighty SU30's---. The monstrosity of the little Sparrow hawk would have made the enemy legs jello---.

That would have been a true WTF happened moment for the Iaf pilots---everyone of them would be looking at each other and asking---WTF happened---how did we fck up so bad about assessing the capabilities of this aircraft---.

The momentum was with the Paf and pak military---.

A similar thing happened with Pak navy in 1965---. War was oin on in kashmir---on the 4th the Submarine Ghazi saw thru the periscope the indian aircraft carrier sitting at the port---.

Could have and should have sunk it---the captain of the sub a great soldier but never had the ability to grab the opportunity offered at hand---.

An israeli commander would have---a british commander would have---a mongol commander of Chengiz army would have---but a german commander and a pakistani commander would not have---.

Moments like these build the fortunes of nations---it is your own incompetence and a lack of confidence that lets you down---.

What is war---we are at the verge of a war like never before---a war if it happened---the enemy had the time to prepare very well---.

On feb 27th the enemy was totally ill-prepared for the war---.

How is it possible for cowards to be allowed to become Think Tank members of this defense forum.

How is it that every Think Tank member of this pakistani defense forum is hiding from a war and covering down with fear of war---@WebMaster---.

What is the reason that no think tank member of this pakistani forum takes an aggressive stance against the enemy---.

Why is every Think Tank member suddenly become anti war---?

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

I thought you were more intelligent than that---.

In due time---it would have been found out after the action---there were no 300 dead---. How---by using the same photography---time stamped photos---damage to the area or lack of damage---no remains of the dead---.

Think Tank---when a large bomb explodes in a confined space of a room filled with 300 students---the damage to the limb and body is atrocious---body parts---skin and flesh pieces---blood splatter flies far and away---and this being a wooded area---pieces of flesh and skin and bllod droplets could fly a 50 / 100 yards away and be hanging on tree limbs---or a head blown away could be sitting behind a rock after it had rolled down a hill.

Plus where would the mourning families of the "300" students disappear if there were no deaths---.

You kids try every opportunity to put me down---don't take my posts personal---don't cut your nose to spite your face---.

There was no war---india was only testing the capabilities of the Pak military and the pak air force as a pre cursor to Kashmir annexation

So---if the war had started what would have happened---.

You had already shot down possibly 6 of their SU30;s---maybe a couple of mirage 2000's and a mig 21 and sunk a frontline submarine---.

Basically in the first hour of the counter strike---you had smashed the enemy power base to smithereens---the enemy air force pilot's psyche would have been shattered by this news of the JF17 downing the mighty SU30's---. The monstrosity of the little Sparrow hawk would have made the enemy legs jello---.

That would have been a true WTF happened moment for the Iaf pilots---everyone of them would be looking at each other and asking---WTF happened---how did we fck up so bad about assessing the capabilities of this aircraft---.

The momentum was with the Paf and pak military---.

A similar thing happened with Pak navy in 1965---. War was oin on in kashmir---on the 4th the Submarine Ghazi saw thru the periscope the indian aircraft carrier sitting at the port---.

Could have and should have sunk it---the captain of the sub a great soldier but never had the ability to grab the opportunity offered at hand---.

An israeli commander would have---a british commander would have---a mongol commander of Chengiz army would have---but a german commander and a pakistani commander would not have---.

Moments like these build the fortunes of nations---it is your own incompetence and a lack of confidence that lets you down---.

What is war---we are at the verge of a war like never before---a war if it happened---the enemy had the time to prepare very well---.

On feb 27th the enemy was totally ill-prepared for the war---.

How is it possible for cowards to be allowed to become Think Tank members of this defense forum.

How is it that every Think Tank member of this pakistani defense forum is hiding from a war and covering down with fear of war---@WebMaster---.

What is the reason that no think tank member of this pakistani forum takes an aggressive stance against the enemy---.

Why is every Think Tank member suddenly become anti war---?

You sound a little frustrated. Calm down and think a little bit logically, normally you bring great content to your posts. Happy Holidays !!!

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Hi,

I thought you were more intelligent than that---.

In due time---it would have been found out after the action---there were no 300 dead---. How---by using the same photography---time stamped photos---damage to the area or lack of damage---no remains of the dead---.

Think Tank---when a large bomb explodes in a confined space of a room filled with 300 students---the damage to the limb and body is atrocious---body parts---skin and flesh pieces---blood splatter flies far and away---and this being a wooded area---pieces of flesh and skin and bllod droplets could fly a 50 / 100 yards away and be hanging on tree limbs---or a head blown away could be sitting behind a rock after it had rolled down a hill.

Plus where would the mourning families of the "300" students disappear if there were no deaths---.

You kids try every opportunity to put me down---don't take my posts personal---don't cut your nose to spite your face---.

There was no war---india was only testing the capabilities of the Pak military and the pak air force as a pre cursor to Kashmir annexation

So---if the war had started what would have happened---.

You had already shot down possibly 6 of their SU30;s---maybe a couple of mirage 2000's and a mig 21 and sunk a frontline submarine---.

Basically in the first hour of the counter strike---you had smashed the enemy power base to smithereens---the enemy air force pilot's psyche would have been shattered by this news of the JF17 downing the mighty SU30's---. The monstrosity of the little Sparrow hawk would have made the enemy legs jello---.

That would have been a true WTF happened moment for the Iaf pilots---everyone of them would be looking at each other and asking---WTF happened---how did we fck up so bad about assessing the capabilities of this aircraft---.

The momentum was with the Paf and pak military---.

A similar thing happened with Pak navy in 1965---. War was oin on in kashmir---on the 4th the Submarine Ghazi saw thru the periscope the indian aircraft carrier sitting at the port---.

Could have and should have sunk it---the captain of the sub a great soldier but never had the ability to grab the opportunity offered at hand---.

An israeli commander would have---a british commander would have---a mongol commander of Chengiz army would have---but a german commander and a pakistani commander would not have---.

Moments like these build the fortunes of nations---it is your own incompetence and a lack of confidence that lets you down---.

What is war---we are at the verge of a war like never before---a war if it happened---the enemy had the time to prepare very well---.

On feb 27th the enemy was totally ill-prepared for the war---.

How is it possible for cowards to be allowed to become Think Tank members of this defense forum.

How is it that every Think Tank member of this pakistani defense forum is hiding from a war and covering down with fear of war---@WebMaster---.

What is the reason that no think tank member of this pakistani forum takes an aggressive stance against the enemy---.

Why is every Think Tank member suddenly become anti war---?

My 2 cents:

In 2016 when the drama of surgical strikes first started we retaliated with the same force as India did and settled the scores. On Feb. 27 we retaliated in the same way as IAF did. They dropped bombs we did too. When India did that first one to congratulate India was US.

If PAF did as you say India would have been forced to retaliate and it will escalate from there to nukes.

 

[MastanKhan]

My 2 cents:

In 2016 when the drama of surgical strikes first started we retaliated with the same force as India did and settled the scores. On Feb. 27 we retaliated in the same way as IAF did. They dropped bombs we did too. When India did that first one to congratulate India was US.

If PAF did as you say India would have been forced to retaliate and it will escalate from there to nukes.

Hi,

There would be no escalation to nucs at all---.

India did not have any aircraft capable of BVR arsenal to combat Paf aircraft with BVR---.

The Israeli air force under similar conditions would have smashed the enemy air force---.

We talk big to combat Israel---but then we cannot match with the size of their COJONES---.

Suddenly the Paf and pakistani citizens develop the roundels the size of squirrels---.

Amazing---isn't that---.

 

[Windjammer]

Hi,

There would be no escalation to nucs at all---.

India did not have any aircraft capable of BVR arsenal to combat Paf aircraft with BVR---.

The Israeli air force under similar conditions would have smashed the enemy air force---.

We talk big to combat Israel---but then we cannot match with the size of their COJONES---.

Suddenly the Paf and pakistani citizens develop the roundels the size of squirrels---.

Amazing---isn't that---.

Walkium Hi ,
Just wondering if Israelis were ever sanctioned for using their F-16s against gun-totting Palestinians or if it has ever been placed on FATAF list, has US ever threatened to bomb it back to Moses age or would US even consider ever supplying lethal equipment to Israeli enemies.
Until and unless Pakistan becomes free from all the shackles, it has to tread very carefully.
Unless one has the brain of a squirrel and forgets that mission US is to counter China with India and it certainly wouldn't like to see it's pet being kicked around wuith liberty by Pakistan .

 

[MastanKhan]

Walkium Hi ,
Just wondering if Israelis were ever sanctioned for using their F-16s against gun-totting Palestinians or if it has ever been placed on FATAF list, has US ever threatened to bomb it back to Moses age or would US even consider ever supplying lethal equipment to Israeli enemies.
Until and unless Pakistan becomes free from all the shackles, it has to tread very carefully.
Unless one has the brain of a squirrel and forgets that mission US is to counter China with India and it certainly wouldn't like to see it's pet being kicked around wuith liberty by Pakistan .

Hi,

American call it a "SOB STORY"---. The china factor is almost finished. India has been found useless---.

Paf could have pushed it into its grave on the 27th feb.

But the Paf gave IAF the opportunity to recoup its asset and adjust its game plan and weaponry---.

 

[Mentee]

Hi,

There would be no escalation to nucs at all---.

India did not have any aircraft capable of BVR arsenal to combat Paf aircraft with BVR---.

The Israeli air force under similar conditions would have smashed the enemy air force---.

We talk big to combat Israel---but then we cannot match with the size of their COJONES---.

Suddenly the Paf and pakistani citizens develop the roundels the size of squirrels---.

Amazing---isn't that---.

My biggest concern is the proportionality of the response from our side and not preemptive - - - - - OK opening up of strategically dormant fronts if the need arises.

"see the enemy slapped from the north east and we returned the favor by delivering a blow only to the north eastern flank"

Why the duck the enemy dictates our threshold ?

yabbbaa dabbba doooo!!

jai siri paye!