Captured CST Terrorist

[Halaku Khan]

Haqqani may be attacking the US, and may have carried out the Embassy bombing, but not with Pakistani support, overt or covert.

The Pakistani establishment bitterly complains about the Indian presence in Afghanistan. You may justify that with allegations of Indian involvement in Baluchistan - but I think that the real reason is the fear in the mind of the Pakistani establishment that India will win hearts and minds in Afghanistan, and that the Afghans will no longer be a Pakistani colony. There is a desire in some circles in Pakistan to recreate an Islamic Empire and getting hold of Afghanistan would be the first step.

I don't know exactly what communication intercepts were obtained by India and the US after the embassy bombing - but because of Haqqani's relationship with the Pakistani establishment it is very difficult to accept the claim that there was no institutional Pakistani involvement.

Given the history of Pakistani support to non-state actors, and consistent Pakistani deceptions over things like Kargil, it is very difficult to believe the Pakistani establishment any more. As GW Bush says - the intelligence that is given to the Pakistani establishment goes straight to the bad guys.

If Pakistan could demonstrate sincerity by say handing over Tiger Memon (for the 1993 blasts) or the LeT chief Hafeez Sayeed then it may alleviate international distrust.

 

[TacOps]

The people at hotel had locked their rooms it was very difficult for agencies to make them open doors risking a terrorist or a hostage. Terrorist had recce before attacks they new Taj very well than agencies. Terrorist made hostages to put fires at different places which only added to delays.

Isn't that what I am saying too?. There's no logic as to why a Pakistani intel agency would plan such an attack which meant that the terrorists would be captured and identified (or killed and identified)

There are several possibilities, including the one that perhaps certain elements within the Pakistani establishment are working to scuttle the peace process between the two nations. Perhaps the bullets were a deliberately procured to implicate Pakistan and thus sabotage the peace-process.

Well, going to a war footing or making direct accusations is pretty much making it "mission successful" in their favour isn't it?

 

[Flintlock]

Bush Vows Aid to India, Says Terror Not ‘Final Word’ (Update1)
By Roger Runningen

Nov. 29 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush pledged his administration’s full support to the Indian government after militants attacked Mumbai in the Asia nation’s deadliest terrorist assault in more than 15 years.

“The killers who struck this week are brutal and violent, but terror will not have the final word,” Bush said upon arriving at the White House after spending the Thanksgiving holiday at Camp David in Maryland. India “can count on the world’s oldest democracy to stand by their side.”

The president conferred with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and his national security advisers today in a secure video conference at Camp David for updates on the attacks, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said in an e-mailed statement. U.S. Ambassador to India David Mulford in New Delhi also participated in the call at 7:30 a.m. Washington time.

At least 195 people died in the attacks on the Taj Mahal Palace and Tower and Oberoi-Trident hotels, a Jewish center, a railway station and a restaurant, said S Jadhav, an official at the Mumbai’s disaster management unit. More than 295 people were injured in attacks that began Nov. 26 and ended early today, Mumbai time.

Six Americans died in the carnage in Mumbai’s cultural and financial district, and an unknown number are missing, Mulford said. India, with 1 billion people, is the world’s largest democracy.

“We pledge the full support of the United States as India investigates these attacks, brings the guilty to justice and sustains its democratic way of life,” Bush said in a statement on the South Lawn of the White House.

Obama Briefed

Throughout the past four days, the president said he’s kept President-elect Barack Obama informed of step-by-step developments and shared information, as U.S. authorities work “to ensure that American citizens in India are safe.”

President-elect Barack Obama called Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh last night to offer condolences. “He told the prime minister that there is one president at a time, but that he would be monitoring the situation closely,” said Nick Shapiro, an Obama spokesman, in an e-mailed statement.

Bush said people of India are “resilient” and “strong,” and they’ve built an enduring multi-ethnic democracy that “can withstand this trial.” Mumbai, the financial capital, will bounce back from the attacks, he said.

Bush made no comment on whether the U.S. was concerned about the potential for increased tensions between the two nuclear-armed South-Asian neighbors, nor did he elaborate about the kind of the U.S. may be offering.

Perino said in response to a question that she couldn’t be specific about whether the FBI is helping authorities in India with the investigation. “We’ve offered assistance, and that’s all we can say for now,” she said in an e-mail.

‘By their Side’

“As the people from the world’s largest democracy recover from these attacks, they can count on the world’s oldest democracy to stand by their side,” the president said.

While more than 300 people have died in attacks on Indian markets, mosques and theaters this year, the indiscriminate killing of businessmen and tourists in five-star hotels marks an escalation in the country’s fight again Islamic extremism. Singh will convene an all-party meeting tomorrow to seek support for a nationwide agency mirroring the Federal Bureau of Investigation to probe terror-related attacks.

To contact the reporter on this story: Roger Runningen in Washington rrunningen@bloomberg.net

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

 

[PeaceForAll]

whether evidence or not, Pak will be under pressure unnecessarily and thats not good at the present economic and FATA situation at hand.

Second, deep seeded mistrust between the two nations has always been used by these perpetrators! I mean, there are reports of some Pakistani hand in here not Pakistan's hand itself!

third, Its very demoralizing to see people here fight online - nothing on ground is going to change - the least we can do is to be positive and calm down and think of ways we can help change the way we live!

how can we build trust? by having flaming wars in every possible place? even on forums like this? if the Indian media has found something to talk about why blame the whole of India and if there was some Pakistani connection found, why blame the whole of Pakistan?

And is it so hard to accept that a Pakistani could do this? He definitely is not the normal public for sure and definitely seems to be motivated by those ill educated religious heads for whom there s no greater salvation than killing young bright people! that guy could have been an asset in the PA if he could hold the Indian commando s for so long without even sleeping!

And is it so hard for India to acknowledge that there could be people inside India who are dissatisfied with the leadership that they can do this sort of thing?? How many times has this not happened?

I think we should behave in a more matured fashion before we point fingers at our politicians!!

 

[Flintlock]

And is it so hard for India to acknowledge that there could be people inside India who are dissatisfied with the leadership that they can do this sort of thing?? How many times has this not happened?

I think we should behave in a more matured fashion before we point fingers at our politicians!!

There was definitely help from within India. Its not possible to carry out such an operation without atleast some local cooperation.

However, none of the terrorists have been identified as Indian nationals.

So, I really don't see why India needs to acknowledge something that doesn't exist.

There have been bombings carried out in India by India-based terror groups, and India has "admitted" this before (albeit these groups are supported by their Pakistani counterparts)

However, in this case, it seems that the entire operation was planned and conceived outside India.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Atleast two major international agencies - the FBI and Scotland Yard, are cooperating with the Indian Agencies.

If both these agencies corroborate the findings by Indians, Pakistan will be put under immense international pressure to take action.

Remember, 6 American citizens have been killed, a number of British, Australian, even Chinese citizens I believe have been killed.

This isn't India versus Pakistan anymore. those two hotels contained citizens of atleast 50+ nations. The whole world wants to know who was behind this.

Pakistan wants to know as well.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

I think we should behave in a more matured fashion before we point fingers at our politicians!!

Trust me despite whatever you have read this in fact is the most mature platform of discussion available to most people. Remember this is the internet, you will find all ranges of IQ.

 

[Flintlock]

Pakistan wants to know as well.

Yes, I'm sure even Pakistan wants to know.

By the way, correction - that would be 20+ nations, not 50+ Nations.

 

[Flintlock]

French president condemns Mumbai attacks with offer of intelligence assistance

English_Xinhua 2008-11-29 22:34:56

DOHA, Nov 29 (Xinhua) -- French President Nicolas Sarkozy here Saturday condemned the deadly attacks in India's Mumbai with an offer of intelligence assistance.

Sarkozy made the condemnation and pledged the offer in sideline remarks of a UN-sponsered international conference on financing for development which opened in the Qatari capital Doha on Saturday.

Strongly condemning the attacks as "barbarity in its most exact sense of the word," Sarkozy stressed that "no cause that can make that acceptable."

The French president revealed that he had contacted Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and told him that French intelligence services would cooperate to the utmost to help India to face up to the "insane, gratuitous, barbaric terrorism."

In one of the most violent terror attacks on Indian soil, Mumbai came under an unprecedented night attack as militants used heavy machine guns, including AK-47s, and grenades to strike at the city's most high-profile targets, killing at least 143 and injuring hundreds of others, according to a Mumbai police commissioner late Friday.

French president condemns Mumbai attacks with offer of intelligence assistance_English_Xinhua

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Pakistani establishment bitterly complains about the Indian presence in Afghanistan. You may justify that with allegations of Indian involvement in Baluchistan - but I think that the real reason is the fear in the mind of the Pakistani establishment that India will win hearts and minds in Afghanistan, and that the Afghans will no longer be a Pakistani colony. There is a desire in some circles in Pakistan to recreate an Islamic Empire and getting hold of Afghanistan would be the first step.

I don't know exactly what communication intercepts were obtained by India and the US after the embassy bombing - but because of Haqqani's relationship with the Pakistani establishment it is very difficult to accept the claim that there was no institutional Pakistani involvement.

Given the history of Pakistani support to non-state actors, and consistent Pakistani deceptions over things like Kargil, it is very difficult to believe the Pakistani establishment any more. As GW Bush says - the intelligence that is given to the Pakistani establishment goes straight to the bad guys.

If Pakistan could demonstrate sincerity by say handing over Tiger Memon (for the 1993 blasts) or the LeT chief Hafeez Sayeed then it may alleviate international distrust.

The real reason for Pakistan's concerns is exactly what you hear expressed from officers in the field, law enforcement and the vast majority of the intelligentsia - which revolves around suspect Indian activity in conjunction with anti-Pakistan elements within the Goa, some with ties to the NA.

I see no reason to dredge up a fanciful theory from the fringes of Pakistani thought and propose that it trumps all else. This would be the equivalent of my argument, advocated by quite a few people in the Indian intelligentsia, that the plethora of commentary advocating a weak and even divided Pakistan serving India's interests, best reflects the 'true' Indian sentiment towards Pakistan.

Pakistan's concerns in Afghanistan are as they have been articulated by the majority of its establishment.

Since no intercepts have been released, we really do not know what the claims centered around, and whether the intercepts indicated direct involvement, or merely continued communication between the ISI and Haqqani as part of the 'deal' encompassing Nazir and Gul Bahadur as well. Again, I have attempted to explain Pakistan's relationship with Taliban groups such as Haqqani, Nazir and Gul Bahadur. Ambivalence towards their activities as part of a means of limiting the influence of the TTP does not equal support for their actions in Afghanistan.

Support for 'non state' actors is not merely the domain of Pakistan - India did it in 1971 as well as in Baluchistan. The list of 'non-state actors' supported by the US is too long to narrate. No one's hands are clean on that count. Your contention on Kargil is flawed as well since one could argue that Indian perfidy in Siachen was not a great example of 'trustworthiness' either.

So really the only argument we are left with in your 'trustworthiness' argument is that related to Bush's comments, with which I disagree as well. Pakistan has arrested/brought to justice more AQ/terrorists than most other nations. Blain addressed this point in an excellent post elsewhere, some intelligence leakage is always going to happen given the nature of the work. More than normal may have occurred given the antipathy with which the Taliban threat was viewed. But despite that some big fish were nabbed, and several smaller ones neutralized. This trend will hopefully continue to improve, as Pakistanis realize more and more that the Taliban/AQ pose a serious threat to the nation.

On the issue of Dawood Ibrahim and company, I refer you to Asims point - both of them operate businesses in the UAE. Yet I have seen no move to seize their resources or crackdown on their activities through an ostensibly 'friendly' country, for equally ostensible reasons. I do not believe Pakistan has the influence to get him out of Dubai. You guys should try, or at least get the authorities to crack down on his assets.

 

[smeaglegolum]

One of the dead cockroach's picture.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081130/images/30militant1.jpg

 

[smeaglegolum]

One of the dead cockroach's picture.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

On the issue of Dawood Ibrahim and company, I refer you to Asims point - both of them operate businesses in the UAE. Yet I have seen no move to seize their resources or crackdown on their activities through an ostensibly 'friendly' country, for equally ostensible reasons. I do not believe Pakistan has the influence to get him out of Dubai. You guys should try, or at least get the authorities to crack down on his assets.

Agreed, wed never know the truth, but what happened to Omar Sayeed Shake, Mazod Azhar and the Hijakers of Indian Airlines. Don't tell me that they vanished like thin air once they landed in Pakistan. Both were terrorists convicted in India. If Pakistan could provide them asylum then it means they are officially patronising terrorism, no two ways about it.

 

[Flintlock]

Scene of Unimaginable Carnage Inside Taj Majal Hotel

Saturday , November 29, 2008

FC1
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The scene Saturday night inside the Taj Majal hotel was one of unimaginable carnage in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist onslaught across Mumbai.

Two Indian commandos told FOX News that 150 bodies still were inside the hotel, and dead victims were found all over the hotel, on all five floors.

The terrorists used incendiary bombs, or grenades thrown on gas or fuel canisters, indicating they had access to the Taj hotel in advance, though the Taj Majal hotel denies any staffers were involved.


The rampage on 10 different sites in India's financial capital began late Wednesday night, and it didn't draw to a close until Saturday morning with the terrorists' final standoff at the Taj Majal.

The last two terrorists were taken out on the first floor. Indian forces threw grenades at them from four different directions and then shot and killed them.


The reason the siege at the hotel took so long to end, Indian commandos say, was that they didn't know how many terrorists were inside.

The commandos also said they were surprised at how much ammunition the terrorists had. There still was a lot left, even after the attack.

"Terrorists are far more advanced today. We didn't realize that they had satellite phones for communication or that they would be so advanced and use incendiary bombs," one commando said. The siege was particularly troubling because "they didn't spare women or children."

FOX News' Reena Ninan contributed to this report.

FOXNews.com - Scene of Unimaginable Carnage Inside Taj Majal Hotel - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agreed, wed never know the truth, but what happened to Omar Sayeed Shake, Mazod Azhar and the Hijakers of Indian Airlines. Don't tell me that they vanished like thin air once they landed in Pakistan. Both were terrorists convicted in India. If Pakistan could provide them asylum then it means they are officially patronising terrorism, no two ways about it.

You guys are the ones that let them go after paying them off.

I think if their culpability in any incidents after the hijacking is shown, they should be tried and incarcerated, or extradited if some extradition arrangement/treaty can be worked out.

As far as I know, OSS was sentenced to death for the DP murder (pending appeal), and is still in jail is he not?