Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

[Asian.Century]

So when is PAK FC-31 comming to pakistan and what tech is pakistan providing for it........???

Hehe, PAK FC-31 will have PAF specs, though it is not a joint venture like JF17, and it is a simple purchase, 30-40 coming by 2018-2020. Not shut up.

 

[帅的一匹]

ToT is not an issue in Rafale deal.It is a clause for taking responsibility of fighters developed by HAL.That is the main issue.Dassault Rafale offset agreement is 50% .Means if we spend 20 billion ,10 billion will return to the our own market.
Rafale dont have any other customers.So price may slightly higher but less EFT .But we will get necessary ToT.

Do you think its reasonable to take Rafale for responsibility for delay instead of HAL? It sounds like a despotic clause.

 

[sathya]

So when is PAK FC-31 comming to pakistan and what tech is pakistan providing for it........???

Hahaha...

I love your avatar and name..

Please post ur thoughts on topic in funny way..

I will be your biggest fan..

 

[anant_s]

Or it might kill India's indigenous defence industries.

If we were happy to only buy foreign goods like Sony and Apple, then what would happen to our own indigenous companies like Lenovo?

Indigenous industries need a chance, and enough capital to become great. If their own country prefers foreign products, what can they do?

Valid point sir, but for Defence Aviation industry in particular, we need foreign support. The point is that almost all of 70s, 80s and good part of 90s, govt. didn't pay much attention towards domestic manufacturing and that coupled with sanctions and weak economic growth led to deep depletion of IAF fleet. Only at the turn of millennium, did govt. start realizing that it is unrealistic to expect cutting edge technology overnight from domestic manufacturers simply because there is little or no R&D in the sector.
Also that the sector has almost all of government run PSU presence didn't help, made the matters worse.
Therefore the point of having Invest Back Clause in major defence dealing is a major step towards achieving competency buildup. With the new govt. allowing private participation, things will slowly but surely improve. There is a huge market in India for defence equipment and therefore it is important that govt. uses large deals to bring in technology as well. Other wise, it will like the case of Saudi Arabia, were large money purses led to country getting most advanced equipment without any tangible gain for domestic industry. India really can't afford that kind of scenario.

 

[anant_s]

Do you think its reasponable take Rafale for responsibility for delay instead of HAL? It sounds like a despotic clause.

True!

 

[Dash]

Then you ask why the French are charging you an arm, a leg and a testicle for Rafales?

The original deal economics re well in place with little bit of price escalation for which we are evenly responsible. Please get your facts right.

 

[帅的一匹]

Or just India lacks confidence in HAL's efficiency and the ability to indegenize Rafale? How a nation shall ourtsource its efficeincy management to suppliers instead of its own? I think its very weird. Someone shed some lights?

 

[SpArK]

The elephant shupa powa shows Putin its muscle!

Please make use of auto grammar . Its been a while since you are repeating the same shupa powa thing.

A little education would do much good for maintaining quality of a forum that's dealing with defence.

 

[Zarvan]

Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

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NEW DELHI: Ahead of President Vladimir Putin's visit here early next month, India has told Russia to come back with a plan to substantially reduce the delivery timeframe for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) if it wants to seal the futuristic project by next year.

The plan till now was that India would begin inducting the stealth fighters only 94 months — at the earliest — after the two countries inked the final design and R&D contract, which itself has already been delayed by over two years by now.

"Russia has now been told that India cannot wait for a decade to get the FGFA. The delivery schedules should be compressed instead of IAF waiting for the FGFA till 2024-2025. The Russians will probably respond during Putin's visit," a defence ministry source said on Monday.

View attachment 156349

As was first reported by TOI, India is already upset with Russia for not giving its experts "full technological access" to the FGFA project despite being an equal funding partner. The final design contract, which is yet to be inked after missing the mid-2012 deadline, envisages the two countries chipping in with $5.5 billion each towards designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development and flight testing.

With the 127 single-seat FGFA that IAF wants costing extra, India will spend around $25 billion on the entire project. India had already spent $295 million on it after inking the preliminary design contract with Russia in December 2010.

The Indian "perspective multirole fighter" is to be based on the under development Russian FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50, which undertook its first flight-test in January 2010, but will be tweaked to IAF's requirements.

View attachment 156350

The delivery of aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya by Russia to India was delayed by several years.

As per the initial plan, with Indian scientists and experts also being based in Russia, the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik was to get three FGFA prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for test-flying by IAF pilots. The final production was to begin only around 2022. All these timelines, of course, have gone awry with the final design contract yet to be sealed.

With IAF down to just 34 fighter squadrons, when at least 44 are required, alarm bells have finally begun to clang loudly in the Indian defence establishment over the long delays in all its three fighter induction projects.

The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, first approved in 1983, for instance, will get final operational clearance only by mid-2015. But IAF will get what it actually wants, the four Tejas Mark-II squadrons, from 2022 onwards.

View attachment 156351
Vladimir Putin, who was the Russian prime minister then, walks near a new Russian fighter jet Sukhoi T-50, after its flight in Zhukovksy, outside Moscow on June 17, 2010. (Getty Images photo)

Negotiations for the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multirole combat aircraft) project for 126 Rafale fighters, too, are stuck with France yet to accept full responsibility for the 108 of the jets to be produced in India. "MoD wants at least two of the three projects (FGFA, LCA and MMRCA) to be speeded up," said a source.

Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia - The Times of India

Well Russian Jet is facing massive problems it would be at least 2025 when India will get its first Stealth Jet from Russia if it sticks to the same plane.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Or it might kill India's indigenous defence industries.

If we were happy to only buy foreign goods like Sony and Apple, then what would happen to our own indigenous companies like Lenovo?

Indigenous industries need a chance, and enough capital to become great. If their own country prefers foreign products, what can they do?

Sir you can't say it is gonna kill indigenous industry. We are still not capable of making a plane like rafale and the only option is import.As we don't follow the Chinese policy of producing pirated version or steal tech.
Peace
Hope u get how it's not gonna affect now.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Sir you can't say it is gonna kill indigenous industry. We are still not capable of making a plane like rafale and the only option is import.As we don't follow the Chinese policy of producing pirated version or steal tech.
Peace
Hope u get how it's not gonna affect now.

Well you still haven't inducted the LCA right?

How much more "killed" can it be?

 

[vayuu1]

The elephant shupa powa shows Putin its muscle!

What has that got to do with apa srilanka, NaMo NaMo mata.

 

[Tshering22]

@anant_s
Bhaisahab, I guess NaMo must tell Mr. Putin if they can deliver FGFA by 2020, deal will be scraped. Russia has taken India for a ride too many times. Its about time it stops.




Agreed.

And what alternates do we take? Knowing how useful HAL and ADA are, AMCA will take at least 50 years if they go at it alone.
Otherwise we will have to pull Israel in on the AMCA project if we have to get it on time and based on the design shown in various air shows.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Or just India lacks confidence in HAL's efficiency and the ability to indegenize Rafale? How a nation shall ourtsource its efficeincy management to suppliers instead of its own? I think its very weird. Someone shed some lights?

As I said hal doesn't have the capability to produce rafale atm.Moreover we don't produce pirated or stolen versions.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Well you still haven't inducted the LCA right?

How much more "killed" can it be?

As I said lca was not killed by rafale. Just understand their roles in IAF and capabilities.Lca is not inducted due to inefficiency of Hal.True Af.