Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

[Echo_419]

You can fund the whole project, yet somethings will only move at their natural pace. This is the world of engineering.

Doesn't mean we cannot put pressure

 

[Donatello]

j-31 will use rd-93 engine unless chinese develop a substitute.With a max thrust of just 98 kn in some variants its grossly underpowered.

Not to mention its just a prototype yet and needs rigorous testing to come into service.

Same with T-50. Engine is not an issue for J-31, since Klimov is already willing to work on a higher thrust engine and the WS13 is expected to be available with higher (100KN) thrust anyway.

Two engines are enough.......for Mig 29 Maximum TOW for 20,000KG two RD33 are fine, so please tell me, using technical details, why two RD93s would not be enough for J-31's 18,000KG MTOW?

 

[Donatello]

Doesn't mean we cannot put pressure

You can when you are contributing a lot from your side and your own efforts are being hampered due to Russian lack of interest. It is not the case here. India is more like funding, learning....meanwhile Russians are the ones taking the lead.

 

[haviZsultan]

Right there you have figures explaining why Russia is now categorizing Pakistan in class B of arms sales. indias biggest supplier of weapons has changed from Russia to the United States.

 

[Sanchez]

Russia could say to India, that you have to wait patiently or you can have your money back...

 

[he-man]

Same with T-50. Engine is not an issue for J-31, since Klimov is already willing to work on a higher thrust engine and the WS13 is expected to be available with higher (100KN) thrust anyway.

Two engines are enough.......for Mig 29 Maximum TOW for 20,000KG two RD33 are fine, so please tell me, using technical details, why two RD93s would not be enough for J-31's 18,000KG MTOW?

1)Product 117 is the latest and the best russian engine at the moment with each producing 147 kn vs 100 kn of j-31

2)Mig-29 is an old 4 th generation plane so any comparison with that is moot.

3)India doesnot even want product 117,we want idz 30 wih each generating 170-180 kn

4)Apart from 117 and 117s with limited supercruise,no other russian engine is capable of that.

Fact is that china still is dependant on russia for engines.

 

[he-man]

fingers crossed, yes yes !

My fingers are bent now after keeping them twisted for 2 years now

 

[he-man]

Russia could say to India, that you have to wait patiently or you can have your money back...

We haven't given money yet cowboy

 

[Omega007]

With rafale and both pakfa consuming 20+35=55 billion over next 25 years AMCA is effectively dead and so will be research on newer engine etc.

Well,I'm not really concerned about the AMCA right now.Because it's a dream that DRDO (ADA to be more specific) wants to persue,not the IAF.Besides,it simply doesn't add any new capabilities which the FGFA won't have.I'm more concerned about the development of next generation turbofan engines and of course,the AURA.If we really buy both Rafale and FGFA,it will create tremendous strain on our resources and then there won't be any money left for the afore mentioned projects.It's time to bite the bullet and scrap the MMRCA deal altogether and go for more Su 30MKIs straight from thr Irkutsk instead of placing the order on HAL.

 

[he-man]

Right there you have figures explaining why Russia is now categorizing Pakistan in class B of arms sales. indias biggest supplier of weapons has changed from Russia to the United States.

True but what happens when we sign pakfa deal worth 35 billion?

 

[Echo_419]

You can when you are contributing a lot from your side and your own efforts are being hampered due to Russian lack of interest. It is not the case here. India is more like funding, learning....meanwhile Russians are the ones taking the lead.

We are contributing the most Imp thing of all $$$$ we are just making sure that Russians are pushing as hard as they can

 

[he-man]

Well,I'm not really concerned about the AMCA right now.Because it's a dream that DRDO (ADA to be more specific) wants to persue,not the IAF.Besides,it simply doesn't add any new capabilities which the FGFA won't have.I'm more concerned about the development of next generation turbofan engines and of course,the AURA.If we really buy both Rafale and FGFA,it will create tremendous strain on our resources and then there won't be any money left for the afore mentioned projects.It's time to bite the bullet and scrap the MMRCA deal altogether and go for more Su 30MKIs straight from thr Irkutsk instead of placing the order on HAL.

True,that was the best way forward,too bad both IAF and defence ministry turned out to be uber stupid.

 

[Donatello]

1)Product 117 is the latest and the best russian engine at the moment with each producing 147 kn vs 100 kn of j-31

2)Mig-29 is an old 4 th generation plane so any comparison with that is moot.

3)India doesnot even want product 117,we want idz 30 wih each generating 170-180 kn

4)Apart from 117 and 117s with limited supercruise,no other russian engine is capable of that.

Fact is that china still is dependant on russia for engines.

I merely asked you why Rd 93 would be insufficient....and as usual you went on a completely different tangent. Similar design MTOW has similar thrust ratings. Yes, supercruise is one feature where you would need more thrust without the burners, but J-31 is equally good without supercruise. The main capability here is low RCS and low observability to enhance the survival chance.

 

[Omega007]

True,that was the best way forward,too bad both IAF and defence ministry turned out to be uber stupid.

Well common sence is not so common in our part of the world,I hope you are alrady aware of that.Why do you think there is still the quota system in place which has been tremendously damaging for our country??!!

 

[he-man]

I merely asked you why Rd 93 would be insufficient....and as usual you went on a completely different tangent. Similar design MTOW has similar thrust ratings. Yes, supercruise is one feature where you would need more thrust without the burners, but J-31 is equally good without supercruise. The main capability here is low RCS and low observability to enhance the survival chance.

I merely inferred that with just 200 kn total thrust it would be the worst performing 5 th generation in the world.Nothing else is known at the moment regarding it.

Sensors and rcs wise it would be quantum leap for paf though.