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Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

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Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

Sukhoi-T-50.jpg


NEW DELHI: Ahead of President Vladimir Putin's visit here early next month, India has told Russia to come back with a plan to substantially reduce the delivery timeframe for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) if it wants to seal the futuristic project by next year.

The plan till now was that India would begin inducting the stealth fighters only 94 months — at the earliest — after the two countries inked the final design and R&D contract, which itself has already been delayed by over two years by now.

"Russia has now been told that India cannot wait for a decade to get the FGFA. The delivery schedules should be compressed instead of IAF waiting for the FGFA till 2024-2025. The Russians will probably respond during Putin's visit," a defence ministry source said on Monday.

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As was first reported by TOI, India is already upset with Russia for not giving its experts "full technological access" to the FGFA project despite being an equal funding partner. The final design contract, which is yet to be inked after missing the mid-2012 deadline, envisages the two countries chipping in with $5.5 billion each towards designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development and flight testing.

With the 127 single-seat FGFA that IAF wants costing extra, India will spend around $25 billion on the entire project. India had already spent $295 million on it after inking the preliminary design contract with Russia in December 2010.

The Indian "perspective multirole fighter" is to be based on the under development Russian FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50, which undertook its first flight-test in January 2010, but will be tweaked to IAF's requirements.

45266287.jpg


The delivery of aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya by Russia to India was delayed by several years.

As per the initial plan, with Indian scientists and experts also being based in Russia, the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik was to get three FGFA prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for test-flying by IAF pilots. The final production was to begin only around 2022. All these timelines, of course, have gone awry with the final design contract yet to be sealed.

With IAF down to just 34 fighter squadrons, when at least 44 are required, alarm bells have finally begun to clang loudly in the Indian defence establishment over the long delays in all its three fighter induction projects.

The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, first approved in 1983, for instance, will get final operational clearance only by mid-2015. But IAF will get what it actually wants, the four Tejas Mark-II squadrons, from 2022 onwards.

45266295.jpg

Vladimir Putin, who was the Russian prime minister then, walks near a new Russian fighter jet Sukhoi T-50, after its flight in Zhukovksy, outside Moscow on June 17, 2010. (Getty Images photo)

Negotiations for the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multirole combat aircraft) project for 126 Rafale fighters, too, are stuck with France yet to accept full responsibility for the 108 of the jets to be produced in India. "MoD wants at least two of the three projects (FGFA, LCA and MMRCA) to be speeded up," said a source.

Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia - The Times of India
 
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but what are our options in case FGFA is delayed to extent mentioned in the report.
Besides, it makes quick signing of Rafale deal even more pressing.
 
@anant_s
Bhaisahab, I guess NaMo must tell Mr. Putin if they can deliver FGFA by 2020, deal will be scraped. Russia has taken India for a ride too many times. Its about time it stops.
:coffee:

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but what are our options in case FGFA is delayed to extent mentioned in the report.
Besides, it makes quick signing of Rafale deal even more pressing.

Agreed.
 
final production of FFGA to begin after 2022


& meanwhile some People say lets scrap Rafale as we would be getting FFGA by 2018 so whats the point of buying rafale

around 7-8 years from now it would start production & instantly also they/india cant produce 100 fighters with in a year
after starting it's production. It takes it's time to produce a 9-10 jets per year

so one can imagine what would be condition of IAF squadron strength if we scrap the rafale deal thinking that FFGA would be inducted around 2020

CHEERS
 
@anant_s
Bhaisahab, I guess NaMo must tell Mr. Putin if they can deliver FGFA by 2020, deal will be scraped. Russia has taken India for a ride too many times. Its about time it stops.
:coffee:

Yes, it won't be wrong to ask for reasonable timeline and milestone achievement. For some strange reason, it looks Russia is lingering on with the things. & it doesn't give a good vibe with the fact that complete information sharing isn't being done with an equal partner (at least as far as money is concerned).
Hopefully Putin will come up with a concrete reply on the matter. During his upcoming visit he has a lot lined up including sale of two more 1000 MWe reactors for KKNPP. He would want to leave India with new PM impressed.
 
& meanwhile some People say lets scrap Rafale as we would be getting FFGA by 2018 so whats the point of buying rafale

Doc thats jingoism at best. Even if FGFA comes by 2018 (which doesn't look very likely), IAF needs Rafale. It is a distinctly different platform for completely different set of needs. I therefore also don't endorse to the thought of increasing number of Su 30MKIs in lieu of Rafale. Hope good sense prevails.
 
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but what are our options in case FGFA is delayed to extent mentioned in the report.
Besides, it makes quick signing of Rafale deal even more pressing.

Not pressing.

We need to be clear, why we need FGFA or Rafale fast.. ?

I believe, we need to be collecting or producing technologies, cost effectively.

Russia has to prove that it can sell us technologies cheaper than we could produce them ourselves. Only then the deal goes ahead.
 
Doc thats jingoism at best. Even if FGFA comes by 2018 (which doesn't look very likely), IAF needs Rafale. It is a distinctly different platform for completely different set of needs. I therefore also don't endorse to the thought of increasing number of Su 30MKIs in lieu of Rafale. Hope good sense prevails.

at least you are generous you are talking to get more Su 30mki

plz go to DF1 forum MY GOD!!



jingoism at it's level best

some self proclaimed defence experts
say LCA mark2 should be inducted by 2020 & we should buy it & scrap rafale
LCA mark 2 is better than rafale
as BIGAAAA radar
BIGAA tyre
Biga cockpit
supa manuverable

Test pilots says it can shoot moon :rofl:

& if you disagrees with them on that you would be cerifiied as

"you are traitor & foreign arm buyer's dalllaaal":lol:

CHEERS
 
Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia

View attachment 156346

NEW DELHI: Ahead of President Vladimir Putin's visit here early next month, India has told Russia to come back with a plan to substantially reduce the delivery timeframe for the stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) if it wants to seal the futuristic project by next year.

The plan till now was that India would begin inducting the stealth fighters only 94 months — at the earliest — after the two countries inked the final design and R&D contract, which itself has already been delayed by over two years by now.

"Russia has now been told that India cannot wait for a decade to get the FGFA. The delivery schedules should be compressed instead of IAF waiting for the FGFA till 2024-2025. The Russians will probably respond during Putin's visit," a defence ministry source said on Monday.

View attachment 156349

As was first reported by TOI, India is already upset with Russia for not giving its experts "full technological access" to the FGFA project despite being an equal funding partner. The final design contract, which is yet to be inked after missing the mid-2012 deadline, envisages the two countries chipping in with $5.5 billion each towards designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development and flight testing.

With the 127 single-seat FGFA that IAF wants costing extra, India will spend around $25 billion on the entire project. India had already spent $295 million on it after inking the preliminary design contract with Russia in December 2010.

The Indian "perspective multirole fighter" is to be based on the under development Russian FGFA called PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50, which undertook its first flight-test in January 2010, but will be tweaked to IAF's requirements.

View attachment 156350

The delivery of aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya by Russia to India was delayed by several years.

As per the initial plan, with Indian scientists and experts also being based in Russia, the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik was to get three FGFA prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for test-flying by IAF pilots. The final production was to begin only around 2022. All these timelines, of course, have gone awry with the final design contract yet to be sealed.

With IAF down to just 34 fighter squadrons, when at least 44 are required, alarm bells have finally begun to clang loudly in the Indian defence establishment over the long delays in all its three fighter induction projects.

The indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, first approved in 1983, for instance, will get final operational clearance only by mid-2015. But IAF will get what it actually wants, the four Tejas Mark-II squadrons, from 2022 onwards.

View attachment 156351
Vladimir Putin, who was the Russian prime minister then, walks near a new Russian fighter jet Sukhoi T-50, after its flight in Zhukovksy, outside Moscow on June 17, 2010. (Getty Images photo)

Negotiations for the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multirole combat aircraft) project for 126 Rafale fighters, too, are stuck with France yet to accept full responsibility for the 108 of the jets to be produced in India. "MoD wants at least two of the three projects (FGFA, LCA and MMRCA) to be speeded up," said a source.

Can’t keep waiting for stealth fighter, India tells Russia - The Times of India


If the funding is not the issue the technology is. Russia may be struggling with producing a jet with satisfactory performance parameters. If it really gets delayed till 2024 then the IAF needs Rafale. However when rhe french find this out, they may as well hike the price again.
 
If the funding is not the issue the technology is. Russia may be struggling with producing a jet with satisfactory performance parameters. If it really gets delayed till 2024 then the IAF needs Rafale. However when rhe french find this out, they may as well hike the price again.

I completely agree with your assesment.
 
final production of FFGA to begin after 2022


& meanwhile some People say lets scrap Rafale as we would be getting FFGA by 2018 so whats the point of buying rafale

around 7-8 years from now it would start production & instantly also they/india cant produce 100 fighters with in a year
after starting it's production. It takes it's time to produce a 9-10 jets per year

so one can imagine what would be condition of IAF squadron strength if we scrap the rafale deal thinking that FFGA would be inducted around 2020

CHEERS


But Rafale could take until 2020 and beyond to be available. But the delay for FGFA could even be longer. As for LCA, its delays are legendary. India not only have trouble building planes, but it's incompetent at buying planes as well. The evidence is alarming.
 
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If the funding is not the issue the technology is. Russia may be struggling with producing a jet with satisfactory performance parameters. If it really gets delayed till 2024 then the IAF needs Rafale. However when rhe french find this out, they may as well hike the price again.

Again sir, India needs Rafale not as a substitute for FGFA but as a replacement for lot of other machines that will not be around by the end of this decade. In this context, India really had a golden opportunity to have closed the deal about 18 months back and moved on towards other things like FGFA business. Now unfortunately, things have come to a point where people are questioning persuading Rafale and FGFA together even though that is Apples and oranges, only on the basis of money involved.
On the issue of timeframe of introduction, even if Dassault starts supply Rafales from tomorrow, it will be atleast 2 years for IAF to develop and raise an operational squadron (with its training and maintenance facilities). this means atleast till mid 2017. By that time i worry it might already be a little too late.
 
If the funding is not the issue the technology is. Russia may be struggling with producing a jet with satisfactory performance parameters. If it really gets delayed till 2024 then the IAF needs Rafale. However when rhe french find this out, they may as well hike the price again.

And I'm certain that daussault has this figue out. Both the French and Russiane are squeezing India dry. And India can't do anything but getting shafted again and again.
 
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And I'm certain that daussault has this figue out. Both the French and Russia re squeezing India dry. And India can't do anything but getting shafted again and again.

You really need to change one of your flags. Every single post from you is about India, why the obsession? Go back to your other ID and stay there, please.

https://defence.pk/search/7787290/
 
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