Can Pakistan Armed Forced Become Leaner, Meaner & Younger by Copying India's AGNIPATH RECRUITMRNT PROGRAM?

[Longhorn]

Negative ratings won't change the truth.

 

[TheTallGuy]

@Joe Shearer

Agnipath = Waffen SS

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

Agnipath = Waffen SS

So you do see some shades of the SS in them.

Incidentally, I am willing to comment on the Agnipath in the Indian context. Really, whether or not Pakistan wants to take a cue from this is a different matter altogether, and it is not part of my personal policy to comment on that at all. Suffice it to say that I have a very negative impression about this in all locations in south Asia.

 

[Trango Towers]

Pakistan needs to hang the traitors within the Army first, then confiscate their land (dha) and
soldiers need to do their job which is to fight on borders and not change governments.

Why has this post got a negative rating.
Generals have become property dealers. This is a fact

 

[Super Falcon]

Agreed total overhaul to system we need small army like Israel but well equiped with hi tech weapons reduce the numbers and add technology edge to our soldiers India doing a good to invest much money on one soldier rather than have 10 soldiers with no output

Well equiped well educated troops will survive numbers don't matter anymore tech matters

 

[Al_Muhannad]

I prefer IDF way. Every able-citizen must go through a military/intelligence service, initially for a 3-4 period. Then promising candidates can be offered permanent service. This would raise the overall nation’s discipline and quality of life. A structure appears in thought process. Graduates with such experience tend to perform in what field they choose afterwards. Israel’s Talpot program is one such example. The cycle of innovation is much faster, both outgoing and incoming to military. South korea and turkiye are also good examples.

BUT this would weaken the grip of certain lot over military. Till now, that lot looks down on average citizens as uncultured savages. Hence the reason this concept is not feasible in Pakistan.

 

[Zulfiqar]

This whole idea is crap.

You can't teach experience in that short amount of time.

Practical example:

Many years ago my father (who back then was out of army for like 16 years) was on a firing range of some SPD related outfit on invitation of some officer.

Those SPD guys are given training like a regular soldier (although not in every aspect). However, their range time + ammo after training is far lower than a common soldier of PA.

As a result my father was a far better shot than those SPD guys (even though my father was out of the army for 15 yrs +). The reason being that those guys had very low range time.

Now coming to the topic, their are many skills that one learns oniy by messing up. For that you need to put in time. 3-4 years of service is not enough for that.

 

[Kompromat]

Indians simply are not willing to fight for their country. I'd have professional soldiers over part time punks, serving to pay off Uni debt any given day. That's why US Army went to garbage bin because its been recruiting people who aren't committed to soldiering as a way of life.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

So you do see some shades of the SS in them.

Incidentally, I am willing to comment on the Agnipath in the Indian context. Really, whether or not Pakistan wants to take a cue from this is a different matter altogether, and it is not part of my personal policy to comment on that at all. Suffice it to say that I have a very negative impression about this in all locations in south Asia.

Check out my post in this thread. It’s post #12.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/agneepath-scheme-my-question.745021/#post-13846752

 

[Joe Shearer]

Check out my post in this thread. It’s post #12.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/agneepath-scheme-my-question.745021/#post-13846752

This is what is happening to us.

 

[SaadH]

kaka g! that was last century when our forces were no better then indian forces. But now since turn of this century, the decades of real life hard battle field experiences. They have been completely changed from what they were in 90s. Now they r tough, hardened leaner and meaner troops with countless successes in the battle field of the past 2 decades.

And we showed the world a little glimpse of that in op. swift retort as well.


sir g chorain issy, mery posts parhain, dil khush ho jae ga!

How come our soldiers are getting slaughtered on the daily basis in Balochistan and in FATA areas?

Pakistan could raise a new paramilitary force from the ground up and use a similar scheme like this to mass recruit youth from Balochistan and Ex FATA.
The senior rank soldiers can come from army in the beginning to help the new paramilitary force.
If a big chunk of even majority of youth if Balochistan and Ex FATA have experience in armed forces, terrorism will significantly drop.
Even in Balochistan, if the soldiers fighting terrorism are Baloch them selves, terrorists will think twice before attacking them and public will have bad opinions of terrorists because they will see their own people are dying as a result of terrorism.

It was the native Bengali officers who rebelled against the Pakistan army and led the massacres of non-bengali officers and their families in E. Pakistan...

Same could have happen here given the pathetic state of lumber one agency which is also on the take of the foreign powers, where there would be an explosion of insider attacks from the Baloch and other recruits.

 

[Mahabahu kaunteya]

Indians simply are not willing to fight for their country. I'd have professional soldiers over part time punks, serving to pay off Uni debt any given day. That's why US Army went to garbage bin because its been recruiting people who aren't committed to soldiering as a way of life.

Hehehheehehheeeee ?
I bet you have never seen army recruitment rallies in india on youtube
Far More are rejected than selected, its not a man power issue
For every 1 post , there may be more than 70 applicants.
Though this agnipath scheme is a sham to be honest

Even if government continues , people will still apply in huge amounts.
Those protesters have any way lost their chance in getting into army , such mobs are available dime a dozen in india to do protests .
Those who are serious will be preparing for the recruitment exams

 

[Umair Nawaz]

How come our soldiers are getting slaughtered on the daily basis in Balochistan and in FATA areas?

Afghanistan! that's the reason....that's why u see our militarymen bending over backwards to Taliban to somehow convince them to take action or at least be able to stop them from these cross border attacks into our posts in border as well as stop radicalizing and instigating our unskilled, uneducated youth and people into doing such things within our country as well.

That is the reason, This is the fault of none other then ISI herself actually!!!! and of these analysts within that agency who never took advantage of the desperate situation Taliban were facing since 2007 to 2012/13 when they came here in our side of the border and were desperate for our help....When they were making their Quetta and Miranshah Shura!

We should have gotten written official guarantees from them that in return for our help and support they will; taker action against each and every Anti Pakistan group within Afghanistan, as well as remove this hatred of Pakistan from within Afghanistan that America and its NATO slaves have created in there on purpose to make them Anti Pakistan!

Had these so called high people in DG Analysis ISI posts and their teams would have done it or atleast thought abt it then we may not be seeing these days!

Thats why people like Faiz Hameed are send to talk to Taliban since it was he who served as DG analysis in ISI before becoming its Chief.....and then was made Peshawar Corps commander GOC for this very reason! as they deal with Afghanistan issues.

So that is/was the problem! It aint fault of Army but of ISI itself.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Indians simply are not willing to fight for their country. I'd have professional soldiers over part time punks, serving to pay off Uni debt any given day. That's why US Army went to garbage bin because its been recruiting people who aren't committed to soldiering as a way of life.

It’s the other way round. The reason US military kicked *** in two countries simultaneously with such little lose of life, while running operations in dozen other countries is because they have young, motivated, energetic, trained and technologically evolved supply of Recruits.

Vast majority of young recruits aren’t worried about supporting their family in first few years. They join Military ready to kick some butt. After 4 years of service 80% move on to do bigger and better things. Either to University or local work force. Companies prefer hiring veterans over average joe.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Modi govt announces Agnipath scheme for armed forces. Here's what 4-year service is all about

Enrolment under scheme will be all-India, all-class & will form a distinct rank in armed forces, besides having distinctive insignia. Aim is to keep 3 services younger & reduce pension burden.

theprint.in

Modi govt announces Agnipath scheme for armed forces. Here’s what 4-year service is all about​

Enrolment under scheme will be all-India, all-class & will form a distinct rank in armed forces, besides having distinctive insignia. Aim is to keep 3 services younger & reduce pension burden.​

New Delhi: In a move that will drastically change the recruitment procedure for the Indian military, the government Tuesday announced the Agnipath scheme, which will take in youth between 17-and-a-half years of age to those aged twenty-one, as soldiers for a period of four years.

Enrolment under this scheme, announced by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and the three service chiefs Tuesday, will be all-India and all-class, and will form a distinct rank in the armed forces, besides having distinctive insignia, sources in the defence and security establishment said.

The scheme was cleared by the cabinet committee on security Tuesday, which is chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Recruitment rallies will commence in 90 days and about 46,000 soldiers will be recruited under the scheme this year.

The scheme seeks to replace the existing recruitment model under which soldiers are recruited as sepoys into specific regiments, based on class patterns.

Sources in the defence and security establishment explained that soldiers under the Agnipath scheme — referred to as Agniveers — will be enrolled for a duration of four years, including the training period, and will get a salary of Rs 30,000 – Rs 40,000 per month, and allowances as applicable.



Those recruited under this scheme will have to meet the medical eligibility conditions as applicable for respective categories/trades within the armed forces.

Sources added that while all Agniveers will be given the option to enrol into the regular cadre after four years, only 25 per cent from each batch will be enrolled in the regular cadre of the armed forces, after their four-year service duration.

Sources explained that Agniveers can be posted to any regiment, unit and establishment and would be entitled to honours and awards under extant guidelines on the subject.

The soldiers recruited under this scheme will also get a post-release ‘Seva Nidhi Package’, of Rs 11.71 lakhs including interest (tax free), besides a non-contributory insurance cover of Rs 48 Lakhs.

The Rs 11.71 lakh will include 30 per cent of salary as contribution to the scheme and an equal amount put in by the government. An additional ex-gratia of Rs 44 lakh will be given in case of death attributable to service, and compensation under existing rules will be given in case of disability.

They will also get an Agniveer Skill Certificate, which will aim to assist them in finding post-release job opportunities.

Agniveers will also have an option of accessing a bank loan of Rs 18.2 lakhs over three years or more, against the Seva Nidhi package.

However, sources made it clear that the Agniveers who leave after four years will not get ex-servicemen status. This means that there shall be no entitlement to gratuity and pension benefits.

The eventual aim of the scheme is to keep the three services younger and agile, while reducing the overall pension burden.

International practices​

Sources said that essentially, recruitment of soldiers across the world is done in two broad categories — voluntary and conscription-based recruitment.

For example, Russia has a system of conscription-based service for a period of 12 months, Israel for 30 and 22 months — for men and women, respectively, South Korea for 21, 24 and 25 months, respectively, for army, navy and air force respectively, and Brazil for 12 months.

There are certain pseudo, or voluntary, conscription models as well in countries like China and USA, where the service period under this model ranges from two to eight years, with options for active and reservist service, as also conscription specific to certain ranks and specialisation, said sources.

What govt says about benefits of Agnipath scheme​

Sources claimed that the Aginpath scheme brings in the best of both the models of conscription and volunteer service for related benefits.

They said that a natural fallout or outcome of the Agnipath scheme would be reduction of stress on the military revenue budget, as also pension bills, which would empower the armed forces to re-channelise these funds for their capital procurements and modernisation programmes.

The sources underlined that the global security environment has been rapidly changing and armed forces across the world have been adapting to their futuristic requirements, by bringing in fresh ideas and schemes to meet the overall national ambitions and dreams in the long run.

Human resource management and modified structures for the Indian armed forces are also an important facet of this larger intent, they said.

The sources said that this scheme would help the forces to have younger, fitter, diverse, more trainable individuals, adaptable to changing dynamics and technology, which would enhance operational effectiveness.

The aim is also to achieve desired youth vs experience ratios, aiming to achieve a ratio of 1:1, sources said.

An official statement by the defence ministry said that the scheme will enhance the “youthful profile” of the armed forces and provide a fresh lease of “josh” and “jazba”, while at the same time bringing about a transformational shift towards a more tech-savvy armed forces, as needed today.

The current average age profile in the army is 32 years, said sources, adding, “It is envisaged that average age profile of Indian armed forces would come down by about 4-5 years by implementation of this scheme”.

They said that the scheme will churn out a large number of Agniveers from all across the country and with the high release rate (75 per cent being released after four years), there will be Agniveers in every village and every corner of the society.

“The young disciplined Agniveers who get released after four years of service will instill the same sense of pride in the next generation. This scheme will mainly provide an overall development of the nation by plugging in the problem of unemployment and will provide a stable economic growth,” sources added.

What naysayers argue​

Naysayers within the defence and security establishment argue, however, that the scheme should first undergo a test bed to really see the advantages and disadvantages.

According to them, the scheme will lead to a loss of institutional memory, especially the regiments in the army.

Many are sceptical of this scheme, and wonder whether someone who is getting recruited for four years, and only has 25 per cent chance of being permanent, will follow orders and fight with the same spirit as a regular soldier.

Another concern, according to them, is that 75 per cent of military-trained youth will be back in society without a guaranteed job prospect.

The concerns have been raised by several veterans and serving officers in private.

Lt. Gen. P. R. Shankar, former director general, artillery, has also hit out at the scheme in a scathing article, arguing that the tour of duty does not seem to be a good idea and needs to be proceeded with caution.

“However the government seems to be quite determined to push its way through.. Tour of Duty is an exercise being undertaken without adequate staff or capacity, in order to create which, the teeth have to be knocked off. Then the not so well trained tourist will be part of a subunit in which there is a rat race for retention with no bonding or no junior leadership,” Shankar wrote

He added: “This soldier will be expected to man Brahmos/Pinaka/Vajra weapon system which he cannot handle and defend his gun position from marauding Pakistanis or Chinese. In essence, the tour of duty proposal expects a superman from a kindergarten. We might be producing an Abhimanyu but he will not get out of the Chakravyuhu.”

What can Pakistan copy to make its armed forces:
-Younger keeping soldiers for 4 instead of 16
-Less Pension and expenses
-More capital expenses on Acquisitions

Indian are moving on to western model with is pretty smart move.

Soldiering takes quite a toll on human body. Majority of soldiers and marines end up with some sort of back or leg/foot problem after years of long hikes, tactical and Physical training.

Anabolic Hormones activity declines with age , so does natural recovery of body after intense physical activity.