Can Indonesia Lead ASEAN?

[Reashot Xigwin]

according to this figure, the people of the Philippines are better off than the Vietnamese. Congrat to the Pinoys. I just wonder why poverty is still widespread in the Philippines?

Philippines GDP is much better than Vietnam, but the HDI is much better in Vietnam. There's the difference, but I still prefer the Philippines over Vietnam. Its a personal taste so don't ask.

If ASEAN needs a leader, then Singapore is qualified for the job. She outperforms all others in every fields: strong economy, great education system, good governance, first class infrastructure, well-trained/financed military, stable society, good diplomacy etc.. Where is Indonesia? Nowhere.

Small but beautiful. That is Singapore.

If you actually know how Singapore operate you would be surprised. Don't forget its actually thanks to us that you guys get to keep your sands & rocks on the SCS.

 

[lcloo]

By the rules that laid down when ASEAN was formed, ASEAN can only act on 100% consensus from all member states, so no one can realy lead. But then ASEAN is not really a political group, its main purpose is economics.

 

[Indos]

In Indonesia, it was said that chinese control 95% of the economy, even they are just 5% of the population. Not sure about now though.

Who said that ???? 95 % just bullshit..... Many Conglomerates are Chinese because of Soeharto political tools....giving many Chinese businessmen low rate loan directly from our central bank (Bank of Indonesia)....they called it Kredit Likuiditas Bank Indonesia (KLBI)...it was happening in Soeharto New Order....(in 1999 KLBI was banned by our Parlemen Members). It creates many big Chinese-Indonesian businessmen that are in the level of Conglomerates. It is a political tools to contain Moslem businessmen as it can be a rival of Soeharto if they have money and power.....and it has been proven that now, in our democratic nation almost all candidate of our next President including Joko Widodo are businessmens and 75-80 percent of our parlemen members are also businessmen.

The local Malay (Sumatra) and Java get contained economically since Dutch time. The first national movement to challenge Dutch is actually coming from a Moslem businessmen organization called Syarikat Dagang Islam (Islam Merchant League). From here, our local moslem business people get contained and Dutch prefers Chinese businessmen and doing trade with them....(it makes capital accumulation that can be used in Indonesia independent era)....since Chinese people usually will not revolve politically (the same game played by Soeharto for 32 years...and Liem Sio Liong is actually his pet).

Many Malay/Java Indonesian do business...just like me.

 

[Indos]

Yes, that's a factor. But unless the strength in number and resources are well utilized to empower itself, it is just another India(population) or Africa (resources)

So do you talk about manufacturing output and not GDP where we are more than 3 times of yours....just see this data buddy ...Manufacturing, value added (current US$) | Data | Table Our manufacturing out put is A Giant compare to yours....4 times than yours. And raw material export will be banned starting next Januari insyaALLAH....

Where is your international status ????

 

[Viet]

The Helvetic Confederation is also a small, beautiful and well managed country, in many aspects much better than even Germany. Can it lead the EU (I know, they are not part of the EU but strongly integrated.)?

yes, Switzerland is a perfect candidate. As a country with German and French speaking population, she can lead the bloc and moderate between the two squabblers Germany and France.

Actually it is best for ASEAN to keep the current status quo: rotating chairmanship. Unimaginable for us Vietnam, that a foreign country tells us what to do. Unthinkable that Indonesia as muslim country tells Vietnam as Confucianism nation where to go.

 

[Thunder.sea]

Just for Info.
Many people in Indonesia Don't like the relationship with Western Country.
but, have a Positive Outlook with Russia and Rising China

and YES we can Lead ASEAN.
But, I Thought not Today

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

yes, Switzerland is a perfect candidate. As a country with German and French speaking population, she can lead the bloc and moderate between the two squabblers Germany and France.

Actually it is best for ASEAN to keep the current status quo: rotating chairmanship. Unimaginable for us Vietnam, that a foreign country tells us what to do. Unthinkable that Indonesia as muslim country tells Vietnam as Confucianism nation where to go.

The title said Lead not Leader (I might said natural "leader," but in the context that Indonesia should lead ASEAN)

Additionally, ASEAN lacks a major player with the bloc. Instead, what we have are mostly middle powers and developing countries. Some might suggest that having countries roughly on the same plane is a good thing. The downside, though, is that there isn’t a leader to mobilize support and action within the group. As a result, ASEAN is often rudderless, aimless.

Indonesia is Plural country that just happens to have muslim majority. At least learn something about the country before you yap your mouth/type/whatever.

 

[Fattyacids]

So do you talk about manufacturing output and not GDP where we are more than 3 times of yours....just see this data buddy ...Manufacturing, value added (current US$) | Data | Table Our manufacturing out put is A Giant compare to yours....4 times than yours. And raw material export will be banned starting next Januari insyaALLAH....

Where is your international status ????

If you're referring to Singapore, there is no comparison, they are a highly developed service-oriented economy. Manufacturing is limited, and only in high tech sector.

Where I'm from, we beat you flat in manufacturing.

The title said Lead not Leader (I might said natural "leader," but in the context that Indonesia should lead ASEAN)

I'm not for or against any country in ASEAN, a country with lower HDI and per capita income.... can never lead others with have a higher benchmark, it's akin to indians claiming they are next superpower when the facts and figures show otherwise.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

yes, Switzerland is a perfect candidate. As a country with German and French speaking population, she can lead the bloc and moderate between the two squabblers Germany and France.

Dream on!

 

[Fsjal]

according to this figure, the people of the Philippines are better off than the Vietnamese. Congrat to the Pinoys. I just wonder why poverty is still widespread in the Philippines?

Poverty is an issue because of rampant corruption within the government. If corruption in the government was less, less people would live in streets.

Anyway, are there any slums in Ho Chi Minh City? There is slums in Jakarta as well. Poverty is a big issue, even within ASEAN.

Just for Info.
Many people in Indonesia Don't like the relationship with Western Country.
but, have a Positive Outlook with Russia and Rising China

and YES we can Lead ASEAN.
But, I Thought not Today

I thought you guys had better positive view of the West than China because of those Anti-Chinese riots in the 60's or 70's.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

If you're referring to Singapore, there is no comparison, they are a highly developed service-oriented economy. Manufacturing is limited, and only in high tech sector.

Where I'm from, we beat you flat in manufacturing.



I'm not for or against any country in ASEAN, a country with lower HDI and per capita income.... can never lead others with have a higher benchmark, it's akin to indians claiming they are next superpower when the facts and figures show otherwise.

That's kinda actually saying that Sri Lanka should be the leader of South Asia because of their higher HDI & PPP compared to India. There's actually a flaw in your theory, Indonesia never claim to be a superpower. We are & is a Regional power ask anyone with a degree of political science they'll back me up.

Indonesia already done a good job "leading" ASEAN. So why not continue to do so?

 

[BoQ77]

Leader doesnt means biggest, on military and diplomat, Vietnam shoud lead because of rich experience on many real, long wars.

Vietnam both deal with military and diplomat with France and America.

 

[Fattyacids]

That's kinda actually saying that Sri Lanka should be the leader of South Asia because of their higher HDI & PPP compared to India. There's actually a flaw in your theory, Indonesia never claim to be a superpower. We are & is a Regional power ask anyone with a degree of political science they'll back me up.

Indonesia already done a good job "leading" ASEAN. So why not continue to do so?

Failed analogy.
1) I said less developed country cannot lead more developed ones. I didn't argue for equally less developed small country with better HDI to lead bigger country.

1A) Sri Lanka is nowhere near Singapore vis-a-vis ASEAN and India. Even with better indicators, it's a developing poor country, the same as rest of S. Asia.

2) I didn't say Indonesia wants to be superpower, I meant it would be as delusional as Indians thinking India is superpower when it is not.
Indonesia has done nothing to lead ASEAN.

ASEAN is not a NATO or EU, it has never been and cannot be led by any country.

 

[kankan326]

When there is a leader emerged, ASEAN will immediately disbond.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Failed analogy.
1) I said less developed country cannot lead more developed ones. I didn't argue for equally less developed small country with better HDI to lead bigger country.

1A) Sri Lanka is nowhere near Singapore vis-a-vis ASEAN and India. Even with better indicators, it's a developing poor country, the same as rest of S. Asia.

2) I didn't say Indonesia wants to be superpower, I meant it would be as delusional as Indians thinking India is superpower when it is not.
Indonesia has done nothing to lead ASEAN.

ASEAN is not a NATO or EU, it has never been and cannot be led by any country.

There's no leader in EU or NATO either just country that are perceived to be their leader. The US doesn't own NATO, but we cannot deny its influence in the Alliance. So does Germany/France, but the rest of the EU sees them as a "leader." Not in the Official way, but in public perception & Indonesia is already look upon as such.

Your definition of leader is probably one dude on the top directing order to his subordinate. While I see leader as the one who take responsibility & taking care of other mistake. Indonesia has done that and more.