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Can Indonesia Lead ASEAN?

China doesn't want to lead ASEAN, looking at past and present indicators, the ASEAN countries are not an after thought, but it is but one small part of the puzzle, and all China wants is for it to be peaceful and cooperative. So that we can spare more attention to the rest of the world.

China wants no colonies but tributary states, states that would bow to our supremacy, but still independent enough that we don't have to do anything for you.

This has more or less maintained peace for thousands of years, while in the west any attempts at peace failed and wars raged forever until a similar system where the US reign supreme happened.

So say what you will, unless there's one dominate power that can dictate things somewhat fairly, you will have problems.

IF Indonesia wants to lead? Fine, it's big enough to do so, probably, but instead of standing up to China, Indo should look to improve ties with China and be the dominate player in the region.

US is outside intruder, eventually China will be strong enough to push them out, that's not a predication, that's just fact. The only argument that one can make that wouldn't support this, is Chinese are inferior to Americans as a people, period, no reason, just is. And if that's your reason, then....

Arguments are fine, but if you fight a bigger guy, there's a certain zone you don't go into, there's a certain things that you don't say, unless you really want to get killed.

And this tributary mentality and obsolete superiority complex will lead to china being encircled and strangled.Its inevitabel and the chinese have only to blame tehir own sinocentric mentality.Too bad,china actually had the potential to be something great....now just another soon wannabe empire in the long list of failures.
 
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If Indians could predict the future so well it could have made the supa powa 2030 a dream come true, instead it's now predicting the downfall of the rising China much like that Gordon Chang.
 
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Of course I don´t know what is going on the ground. I say what I learn from media.

Actually Thailand has seen many military coups in her history. So it is not different this time. They forced the current government to the knee. The yellow shirts have money and power, so it is natural they want to keep it. The poor (the red shirts) should remain weak and poor.
I bet that at the end, the Red shirt will win again, thats the reason why Mr.Hun Sen, best friend of VN , still protecting Mr. Thaksin.

When the Red shirt win again, Mr. Thaksin will become VN's best friend and he will support VN in unifying Sub-Mekong region :p:
 
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Wow...special forces hah....he,he. In reality, the bravest soldiers are always Moslem Soldiers....Thats why Israel special forces were too afraid to have close battle with Hisbullah fighters in Lebanon wars several years ago......when we fought Dutch and British.....our soldiers were running toward them....just see good history book from westerners to comprehend it...

Muslim soldiers are extremely brave, but also extremely stupid (suidcide bombers are good examples). Israeli SF is one of the best in the world and can eat hizbullah for breakfast. Their SF could not be fully utilized in the previous conflict with Hisbullah due to the IDF tactic. Indonesian SF are good though.

it just abt shooting, ur poor trained special force have no experience in sneaking and raiding inside enemy's territory like our well trained and experience force .

You are very funny, Indonesia have Kopassus. Probably one of the best SF in asia in my opinion. Your "mud men" have a lot of combat experience but not well equiped. They still use mud and paint as camoflauge, that's very primitive. I also never seen them use basic equipment like night vision goggles.

Anyway both the kopassus and vietnamese sapper are the most experienced in Asia. I don't even remember PRC, Taiwan, South Korean or Japanese special fources have any significant combat experiences like the Indonesian and Vietnamese. Kopassus have trained Aussie SAS and I've seen a video clip of old Vietnamese SF training Soviet Spetznas. So both are legit.
 
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Can't say for sure, but at least our Soldiers can shoot straight. :p:

AARM.png


LOL. How pathetic is your soldiers anyway?

*Obnoxious Laughter aimed at belittling the mighty VPA*

Okay enough laughing. I hate to make fun of those that are weak. :big_boss:
ha ha ha ...can you wushu? we can. One gold for Vietnam :yahoo:

Phuong%20Giang_copy.jpg



The 27th SEA Games medal tally on December 8 morning:
Medal%20tally%20Dec%208.jpg
 
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You are very funny, Indonesia have Kopassus. Probably one of the best SF in asia in my opinion. Your "mud men" have a lot of combat experience but not well equiped. They still use mud and paint as camoflauge, that's very primitive. I also never seen them use basic equipment like night vision goggles.

Anyway both the kopassus and vietnamese sapper are the most experienced in Asia. I don't even remember PRC, Taiwan, South Korean or Japanese special fources have any significant combat experiences like the Indonesian and Vietnamese. Kopassus have trained Aussie SAS and I've seen a video clip of old Vietnamese SF training Soviet Spetznas. So both are legit.
our 'mud men' are master at using knife for silent killing and setting explosion, they dont need gun. its hard for u to sneak undetected into enemy's territory with so many equipment. thats why our 'mud men' could destroy China's radar and withdraw safely.

abt Kopassus , I dont know any successful raiding mission from them. Did they destroy any Australia-UK's radar during the conflict ??

ha ha ha ...can you wushu? we can. One gold for Vietnam :yahoo:

Phuong%20Giang_copy.jpg



The 27th SEA Games medal tally on December 8 morning:
Medal%20tally%20Dec%208.jpg
This is the way my Indonesian friend get gold medal and become No 1 in SEA game, sorry I really look down on their behavious :lol:
 
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And this tributary mentality and obsolete superiority complex will lead to china being encircled and strangled.Its inevitabel and the chinese have only to blame tehir own sinocentric mentality.Too bad,china actually had the potential to be something great....now just another soon wannabe empire in the long list of failures.


Chinese aren't superior people, all human race are born the same more or less. However China is huge, massive land, people and resources.

A country with 6000 per capita is a third world crap country, but at just 6000 we have become the second most powerful country. This isn't looking down on anyone, but facts are facts.

As to China encircled, that's a stupid idea, what are these country doing that would harm us? War? Haven't happened yet, stopping trade? Japan is trying hard to increase trade.

You know money can't buy happiness? Well, it can't, but it could buy friends. China is too big to ignore and rich.

We are the eternal Roman empire, if we must use a western term. I said what I said not because of a Hitler we are the master race mentality, but of a we got more resources than you. In any thing talent and resources means victory, and guess who's got almost unlimited number of it.

As to wannabe empire? Our empire has only been briefly interrupted due to a lot of reason that I won't get into here.

I'm sure you are thinking germany and Japan. Now let's look at the facts. Japan invade a country 20 times their size, Germany invaded countries combined that far out matches theirs.

But even if China does the same, we still have the advantage in GDP, people, soon technology, and land size and resources.

So tell me, why would you assume it to have the same fate, especially that our empires of the past, and US now has demonstrated, with enough resources you could maintain an empire. The only challenge is of someone of EQUAL strength. Which Asia doesn't have, unless you count India.

In terms of the world? US, India, China, that's it, no one else has enough resources to be top of the mountain.
 
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our 'mud men' are master at using knife for silent killing and setting explosion, they dont need gun. its hard for u to sneak undetected into enemy's territory with so many equipment. thats why our 'mud men' could destroy China's radar and withdraw safely.

abt Kopassus , I dont know any successful raiding mission from them. Did they destroy any Australia-UK's radar during the conflict ??


This is the way my Indonesian friend get gold medal and become No 1 in SEA game, sorry I really look down on their behavious :lol:

When did Vietnamese mudmen destroyed China's radar? source?
I've only read Vietnamese sapper destroying US radars in Laos.

Kopassus raided terrorists before but not sure about raids against UK/austrailia.
 
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Anyway both the kopassus and vietnamese sapper are the most experienced in Asia. I don't even remember PRC, Taiwan, South Korean or Japanese special fources have any significant combat experiences like the Indonesian and Vietnamese. Kopassus have trained Aussie SAS and I've seen a video clip of old Vietnamese SF training Soviet Spetznas. So both are legit.
we are a developing country. not having a lot money like the Chinese.
only few pictures of Vietnam special force exist.
vietnam+army+rangers%252Cvietnam+green+berets%252Cvietnam+special+forces.jpg


vietnamese+special+forces+lldb%252Cnorth+vietnamese+special+forces%252Cvietnam+special+forces.jpg



vietnam+special+forces%252Cvietnamese+special+forces%252Cvietnam+military+pictures.jpg
 
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When did Vietnamese mudmen destroyed China's radar? source?
I've only read Vietnamese sapper destroying US radars in Laos.

Kopassus raided terrorists before but not sure about raids against UK/austrailia.
It was written in Chinese and translated to broken English :P
Vietnamese agents dare attack the army: senior military infuriated!

admin on January 20, 2011 in Military World | No Comments »
April 1984, the border of Yunnan army recaptured the old Hill, who rode Thread Yin and other positions, start into the defense.

The local terrain, high and low drop large, so the Vietnamese troops to use firearms is the most important mortar. Vietnamese troops often use the terrain to create false targets, false launch point, induce a waste of our army shells. So our military reported the destruction of the mortar has more than the number of enemy equipment, but the enemy continued to fire the army.

Our military personnel are often sent to bring artillery reconnaissance and observation equipment into an enemy communications behind the right direction for my cannon group goals, and achieved some results, but the artillery reconnaissance personnel at great risk. After our troops from the United Kingdom [Germany] imports a "Xin Bolin" emplacement detection radar (current price for ten million dollars) to deploy to the front.

"Xin Bolin" (Cymbeline) since the 20th century, mid 70s in the UK and German armies, the detection of 81 mm mortar range of up to 10 kilometers, on a detection range of 120-mm mortar up to 14 km . By detecting enemy mortar and to calculate the trajectory, we can accurately determine the location of the enemy mortar position to lead our army artillery to counter and hit the Vietnamese troops was very embarrassed.
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Evening of 4 July 1984 23 am, the Vietnamese troops of 406 battalion 821 Secret Mission 7 with a row of elevation points from the 1134 side saddle sneaked into my territory and then, point by point to observation point by point the way forward on the road before dawn on the 5th to the scheduled meeting place - a cave hidden white pyroxenite. 5, hostile white Shiyan, various positions in a close observation of the arrival day and night. At 0:30 on the 6th or so, in addition to a group of white remain as alert and take place inside the cave, Shiyan task, I compiled four group secret enemy approach the target area, were a group of 160 mortar attack on army positions and 41 Teachers 122 Group 9 with three rows. The other two groups from the left-right attack on Kunming Military Region I (now incorporated into the Chengdu Military Region) artillery battalion reconnaissance apparatus, "Xin Bolin" radar position. 2:30, the enemy opened fire at the same time, 2:40 end of the operation, killed 10 people and injured 49 people, the enemy got killed 1 person and injured 10 people.
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The enemy sabotage actions in terms of combat readiness, tactical means or the use of weapons of view, can be termed a classic special operations, sabotage enemy when using only grenades, directional mines, rockets and plastic explosives man and other explosive weapons not only my staff and technical equipment to cause greater damage, but also covert attempts to combat, army personnel positions until the 6th day of the explosion I still thought just it's enemy shelling to our radar
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The fighting, the military high evaded. Deng position: their agents can come in, why can not our scouts in the past? Thus, there is a more than five years on a secret reconnaissance round of fighting.
After the completion of the enemy attack, the attack group retreated to the white line along the original cave, Shiyan, slight casualties treated on the same day before 6 pm outside the original infiltration routes withdrawn.
Vietnam acknowledged Chinese sovereignty over South China Sea in 1958 | Page 5
Link in Chinese
越南特工竟敢偷袭我军:军方高层大为震怒!
 
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Chinese aren't superior people, all human race are born the same more or less. However China is huge, massive land, people and resources.

A country with 6000 per capita is a third world crap country, but at just 6000 we have become the second most powerful country. This isn't looking down on anyone, but facts are facts.

As to China encircled, that's a stupid idea, what are these country doing that would harm us? War? Haven't happened yet, stopping trade? Japan is trying hard to increase trade.

You know money can't buy happiness? Well, it can't, but it could buy friends. China is too big to ignore and rich.

We are the eternal Roman empire, if we must use a western term. I said what I said not because of a Hitler we are the master race mentality, but of a we got more resources than you. In any thing talent and resources means victory, and guess who's got almost unlimited number of it.

As to wannabe empire? Our empire has only been briefly interrupted due to a lot of reason that I won't get into here.

I'm sure you are thinking germany and Japan. Now let's look at the facts. Japan invade a country 20 times their size, Germany invaded countries combined that far out matches theirs.

But even if China does the same, we still have the advantage in GDP, people, soon technology, and land size and resources.

So tell me, why would you assume it to have the same fate, especially that our empires of the past, and US now has demonstrated, with enough resources you could maintain an empire. The only challenge is of someone of EQUAL strength. Which Asia doesn't have, unless you count India.

In terms of the world? US, India, China, that's it, no one else has enough resources to be top of the mountain.

Because the age of empires is over,simple fact.Chinese megalomania will only result in isolation and encirclement.Sure they might use you for trade and vice versa ,but politically u will be increasingly marginalized no matter how much money u have.Human nature is imbibed with an inherent desire for freedom that can't be suppressed by greed alone.You think you can buy the world.I laugh at your folly.Change your imperialistic mindset before its too late or be encircled.Simple choice.Chaina's arrogance prevents it from being a true leader of asia not its lack of capability.Your overnationalistic farts and threats to all and sundry are very reminiscent of the german empire of the 19th century and its 'our time in the sun' mindset.
 
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we are a developing country. not having a lot money like the Chinese.
only few pictures of Vietnam special force exist.

SF units are relatively small for all countries, so equipping them with the best gears is not going to bankrupt the country. One of your pic show that they are still using old cold war era steel helmet. Plus you guys don't train with other SF. Even PRC and Kopassus have trained together, that's how you gain experience when not in combat.

Best trained and equipped SF in asia is PRC, South Korea and Japan. Most experienced is Vietnam and Indonesia.

Kopassus gears looks pretty modern to me. Vietnamese SF looks ancient lol so I don't know why they are not getting the best gears. Doesn't cost much money to equip 300-700 soldiers.
 
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we are a developing country. not having a lot money like the Chinese.
only few pictures of Vietnam special force exist.
vietnam+army+rangers%252Cvietnam+green+berets%252Cvietnam+special+forces.jpg


vietnamese+special+forces+lldb%252Cnorth+vietnamese+special+forces%252Cvietnam+special+forces.jpg



vietnam+special+forces%252Cvietnamese+special+forces%252Cvietnam+military+pictures.jpg

your SF must train together with kopassus, they got the best stuff available in this world before any units in ASEAN got them

Indonesian+army%2527s+special+forces%252C+prepare+for+the+opening+ceremony+of+a+joint+anti-terror+drill+at+the+national+police+special+operations+force+headquarters+in+Kelapa+Dua%252C.jpg


joint their training camps .............
anggota-baru-kopassus.jpg

maybe they can facing against her in one on one combat simulation :oops:
1551209_20130417102710.jpg
 
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It was written in Chinese and translated to broken English :P

Link in Chinese
越南特工竟敢偷袭我军:军方高层大为震怒!

Not sure I can trust your source 100%. But even if it true, it only said some VPA soldier attacked the PLA site with motar from a distance. It is not a special force infiltration raid. Not impressed.

The raid on LIMA site 85 in Laos was impressive and a true spec ops infiltration.
 
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Because the age of empires is over,simple fact.Chinese megalomania will only result in isolation and encirclement.Sure they might use you for trade and vice versa ,but politically u will be increasingly marginalized no matter how much money u have.Human nature is imbibed with an inherent desire for freedom that can't be suppressed by greed alone.You think you can buy the world.I laugh at your folly.Change your imperialistic mindset before its too late or be encircled.Simple choice.Chaina's arrogance prevents it from being a true leader of asia not its lack of capability.Your overnationalistic farts and threats to all and sundry are very reminiscent of the german empire of the 19th century and its 'our time in the sun' mindset.

We don't call it empire any more, but power is the same in all countries, it's just different. True Royalty doesn't exist in China or America, but people like royalty does, are you going to say that because we call them something else and they are not exactly alike, privilege doesn't happen?

You have not listed facts, just what you think of the situation, but I learned long time ago, what I think doesn't matter, what matters is what you have. The real world and your little ideal world is not the same.

I'm not saying buy friends, but when you are rich people flock to you, you know why right? Especially in democracies, economy matters, and you think you can risk pissing China off? Elections are at stake.

As to encirclement, and isolation? British Prime minister, French President, Obama, and German Chancellors all flock to China and we to them. If you can't explain exactly what encirclement will do, you can't cause it's not real and useless, then don't mention it again.


BTW it's not our time in the sun, it's always our time, it's just on our walk we stumbled under a tree and was in the shade a while.

I also explained the difference between Germany and China, if you don't understand then.....

Please use facts.
 
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