Can China’s Top Guns Fly?

[Beast]

Yes you must be proud of ur great turbopropeller driven AWACS,WOn't last a day in modern aerial warfare.Only thing its good at is sitting pretty and monitoring its own airspace.In a chinese invasion of n-e india,or taiwan or diayu islands where u have to monitor enemy airspace and thus get close,These planes have zero survivability.Sitting ducks.
Thats why all modern airforces with feasible external enemies have turbojet platforms.
The y-8 is a upgraded an-12 ,a useless 50's era platform in today's warfare.
usa/nato uses boeing 707/847,russia ,india uses ill-76.India's new indigeneous one is based on the EMB-145 jetliner.And here u are bragging abt ur propeller driven awacs.Sweden uses it coz it has no external enemies and saves money.Besides its feasible as a purely defensive platform to monitor own airspace from deep inside.Anywhere near enemy borders.This is a big sitting duck for offensive operations.

As for transport fleet all u got are 20 ill-76MDS.India has 17 IL-76MDs herself.

The only other transport with moderate strategic transport ability is the new y-9.U have 7 atm.Its cargo load is still only 25000 kg.
India already has 6 c-130 super herc with 33000 kg plus 6 more on order arriving.

U have nothing comparable to our new c-17 globemasters with 80000 kg cargo load and unique ability to land on rough areas without proper airstrips.This means we can supply NE border far better than u who have nothing comparable.

U also have around 60 of the old y-8 transports [reverse engineered ultra old 50s era an-12] and around a 100 an-24 and an-26 reverse engineered types with y-series designations.The cargo laod of the an-24/26s is a measly 5500 kgs.LOl.

India just upgraded 110 of its an-32 medium transports from ukraine.
So for a air force of 2500 aircarft ur transport ability is pathetic.Especially when u consider the USAAF has 100 c-5 galaxy heavy strategic transports,220 c-17 globemasters and 430 c-130 super herc.The usa can almost airlift its entire army.
Even the declining Russian airforce has over 250 strategic heavy transports and 160 mediuma nd light tactical transports[includes 210 il-76s and 40 super heavy strategic transports]
What it means is that ur ground infrastructure is ur only card,if IAF knocks that out[the rail network...which isn't too difficult with tactical ballistic missiles,brahmos or precision guided munitions from the air] ur soldiers are done for as PLAAF's ability to resupply and reinforce from the air is mminimal.I am not even thinking what will happen if u go up against the USAAF in a cross SCS adventure.

May I know how far can your brahmos goes? Did I need to remind you of its pathetic range of 280km?
If you think your missile can easily overwhelm us. I think India will be far worst. China has CJ-10 missile that can goes 1300 miles with TARCOM or GPS guided. We do not even need to risk a bomber to dispatch the missiles. And still we have the DF-15 and DF-21 tactical missiles that goes 10 mach and has range of 1500km. India trying to fight a surface to surface war with China is sucide. Your whole fleet can stay on the ground.

If you think turbo prop AWACS is useless, probably E2-C skyhawk of USN shall retired too... Our turboprop KJ-200 can stay near border to direct battle and direct air battle. The problem with IAF is you are lacking in number of AWACS and AEW compare to PLAAF. Its simply not enough to cover your airspace plus projection airspace.

As for the cargo plane. IAF is in no where better shape the An-320 is the most moderate cargo even the CJ-130 hercules no matter how you upgraded, will still be limited in cargo space meaning even heavy payload will be useless becos of the space constraint.

IAF IL-76 fleet is in no way better than PLAAF one. We have overhaul ours and increase their working lifespan. Baically, I do not see how IAF is better , in fact with aging Bison , Mig-27 and Jaguar with no replacement. IAF are at its weakest point. Rafale plan has stalled. LCA is not going smoothly.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

May I know how far can your brahmos goes? Did I need to remind you of its pathetic range of 280km?
If you think your missile can easily overwhelm us. I think India will be far worst. China has CJ-10 missile that can goes 1300 miles with TARCOM or GPS guided. We do not even need to risk a bomber to dispatch the missiles. And still we have the DF-15 and DF-21 tactical missiles that goes 10 mach and has range of 1500km. India trying to fight a surface to surface war with China is sucide. Your whole fleet can stay on the ground.

If you think turbo prop AWACS is useless, probably E2-C skyhawk of USN shall retired too... Our turboprop KJ-200 can stay near border to direct battle and direct air battle. The problem with IAF is you are lacking in number of AWACS and AEW compare to PLAAF. Its simply not enough to cover your airspace plus projection airspace.

As for the cargo plane. IAF is in no where better shape the An-320 is the most moderate cargo even the CJ-130 hercules no matter how you upgraded, will still be limited in cargo space meaning even heavy payload will be useless becos of the space constraint.

IAF IL-76 fleet is in no way better than PLAAF one. We have overhaul ours and increase their working lifespan. Baically, I do not see how IAF is better , in fact with aging Bison , Mig-27 and Jaguar with no replacement. IAF are at its weakest point. Rafale plan has stalled. LCA is not going smoothly.

First of all atleast know what ur talking about noob,there is nothing called e2c skyhawk.If ur talking about E2C Hawkeye, its a naval early warning plane not a full blown awacs designed to operate from carriers.In naval scenario even helicopters are used for early warning role.There is no comparison.The USAF,RUSAF,NATO no one uses antiquated turboprop 50s era platforms for awacs.They just have no survivability anywhere close to the battlespace.They are only good for monitoring their own airspace from deep within the country.
In any aggressive war,the kind that china intends to wage where u have to take command of the enemy's airspace these are total sitting ducks.
A range of 290[not 280] kms is more than sufficient to take out railway network and shut down ur logistical supply line.And its not just brahmos these can be easily done by mki[against which u have nothing of equal quality...sinosoldier the kid made big claims about j-11 then ran away when i gave him the facts] airstrikes or by tac bms.Infact brahmos block-ii regiment optimised for mountanous area use has already been deployed to arunachal.
China thinking its suicide for india is delusional,it doesn't matter how big your army is.Ur supply line comes through the himalayas.We take out the railway lines and ur big fat army is going sit and starve.Coz the transport ability of the PLAAF is pathetic for its size.Logistics is YOUR main problem,we are fighting on our own turf.
I don't know again about an-320 ,what that is and i didn't understand the whole paragraph?
For heavy payload we don't use c-130 or an-32.[medium transports]We use il-76s and the new world beater c-17 globemasters against which u have nothing comparable.The globemasters can land on rough areas with barely no airstrips,perfect for N-E and with a humoungous cargo of 80000 kgs.So what is this space constraint?Atleast read my posts before blurting rabble.
When did i say ill-76 iaf fleet is better both have the same model and in almost equal numbers 17 and 20 respectively.Our real advantage in heavy transports is the new c-17.

And while analysing IAF aircraft i see u conviniently left out the su-30 mki,perhaps because u got nothing as good?
Add to that low flying hrs,no exercises or exposure and interference from political commissars in the command chain and ur human material too is highly suspect.

 

[Beast]

First of all atleast know what ur talking about noob,there is nothing called e2c skyhawk.If ur talking about E2C Hawkeye, its a naval early warning plane not a full blown awacs designed to operate from carriers.In naval scenario even helicopters are used for early warning role.There is no comparison.The USAF,RUSAF,NATO no one uses antiquated turboprop 50s era platforms for awacs.They just have no survivability anywhere close to the battlespace.They are only good for monitoring their own airspace from deep within the country.
In any aggressive war,the kind that china intends to wage where u have to take command of the enemy's airspace these are total sitting ducks.

You are seriously igoring the KJ-2000? How many Phalcon you have? I dont know what kind of superiority you have over PLAAF?

AS for sitting ducks? MAy I know what kind of magic missile you have that can breach thru the defender first? R-77? isn't the same missile we have?

A range of 290[not 280] kms is more than sufficient to take out railway network and shut down ur logistical supply line.And its not just brahmos these can be easily done by mki

280km is enough? Are you trying to kid me? Or becos thats the limit you can go that's why you say its enough. Don't kid yourself. 280km? Where you want to shoot? Some tibet mountains?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

We have 3 PHALCONs on il-76 with 2 more coming ,u have 5 kj-2000 on il-76s.The other 7 kj-2000 on turboprops are useless in aggressive war which china wants.
Btw this is the same phalcon[actually newer block 2 model] that china wanted to buy desperately from israel but was sanctioned by USA[for which it protested].Only after which the kj-2000 entered the picture.So i got little doubt on whose got the quality advantage here.

 

[Psyops]

Beast is destroying this little Indian

 

[Beast]

Beast is destroying this little Indian

The Indian are inferior but all they do is just chest thumping and throw fart at us!

Then they start their delusion pathetic to hide their inferiority... Truly India!

 

[Psyops]

The Indian are inferior but all they do is just chest thumping and throw fart at us!

Then they start their delusion pathetic to hide their inferiority... Truly India!

I've always said, Indians come across as people that would suck their own c0ck if they could.

 

[Genesis]

Back again kid?Care to reply my questions then mate?
Which one of ur aircraft is equal in quality to the mki?Or do u have any quality advantage in awacs[nope],transports[bIG NO] or tankers.
As for pilot quality,u have lower pilot flying hrs,no exercises with foreign air forces,lesser combat history or tradition than IAF and most of all ur rigid soviet style over centralized command system and interference from political commisars place u at yet another disadvantage.

Got any answers for that 'kid'?

which part of benig in the weakest state and getting more since we just finished testing don't you understand?

The mki and j10 or j10b I can't say which is better, but let's assume it's ski, it's not a 4th to 5th generation difference. It's more like 2 different planes with different advantages.

As to pilot training, we each have different views, but the difference even if there is one, is not night and day. and rigid command structure, well lt's just say China is not the one know as the world's slowest bureaucracy.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Beast is destroying this little Indian

Oh u mean how i destroyed all of u in this thread.None of u had any answers for my real questions,only inslts.Typical chinese troll farts.

 

[gambit]

You cannot argue with Chinese logic here. They think they are right and that is the way and direction they will be heading, without even sure where will they ended up

Their disdain for experience is indicative of their egos than of intelligence. It never occurred to them that they would meet people who know the subjects under discussion.

The PLAAF may have its own 'Top Guns', but the Chinese sub-forum here have its own 'TOP GUMS'.

 

[Beast]

Oh u mean how i destroyed all of u in this thread.None of u had any answers for my real questions,only inslts.Typical chinese troll farts.

Really? It is your personal insistence on turboprop useless which countries like Sweden and USN don't agree with your theory. China being high percent landlocked country do not see the disadvantage of turboprop AWACS. Even the North Sea china and South China Sea is not that big and absolute suitable for the use of turboprop AWACS.

Then comes to KJ-2000 which Israel passed most of the known how to us even the contract is called off. China not only salvage the project but continue upgraded it. IAF the most have only 4 phalcon AWACS which is the same number as China. I do not see any advanTge over us. The fact, we are supplement by a strong fleet of KJ-200 of more than a dozen of AWACS, AEW and ECM which is even more than what IAF can assemble.

As for your transport fleet. Again, I do not see any real advantage , we have a strong fleet of Y-8F600, follow by Modernised Y-9 which we can manufacture as many as we want. Even the IL-76 fleet, I do not see any real significant number IAF has over PLAAF. As for your C-17, it has not enter service yet. If you want to add in future procurement. Then I think I have the right to add in 200 Y-20 for PLAAF transport fleet.

While you are seriously ignoring IAF shortcoming of aging Bison, mig-27 and jaguar which replacement will not come soon. Let me tell you they are not young aircraft and pulling high G will be a risk.

Everybody knows rafale plan has stall and LCA is not going well. How are you going to explain that? It will be impossible to replace everything with MKI and will be massive financial burden for India to handle.

 

[jhungary]

Their disdain for experience is indicative of their egos than of intelligence. It never occurred to them that they would meet people who know the subjects under discussion.

The PLAAF may have its own 'Top Guns', but the Chinese sub-forum here have its own 'TOP GUMS'.

lol I had already finished with those Chinese member, as long as I registered my view, I am done, it's just waste of my time to argue with people who don't have the right idea, or even mind.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Really? It is your personal insistence on turboprop useless which countries like Sweden and USN don't agree with your theory. China being high percent landlocked country do not see the disadvantage of turboprop AWACS. Even the North Sea china and South China Sea is not that big and absolute suitable for the use of turboprop AWACS.

Then comes to KJ-2000 which Israel passed most of the known how to us even the contract is called off. China not only salvage the project but continue upgraded it. IAF the most have only 4 phalcon AWACS which is the same number as China. I do not see any advanTge over us. The fact, we are supplement by a strong fleet of KJ-200 of more than a dozen of AWACS, AEW and ECM which is even more than what IAF can assemble.

As for your transport fleet. Again, I do not see any real advantage , we have a strong fleet of Y-8F600, follow by Modernised Y-9 which we can manufacture as many as we want. Even the IL-76 fleet, I do not see any real significant number IAF has over PLAAF. As for your C-17, it has not enter service yet. If you want to add in future procurement. Then I think I have the right to add in 200 Y-20 for PLAAF transport fleet.

While you are seriously ignoring IAF shortcoming of aging Bison, mig-27 and jaguar which replacement will not come soon. Let me tell you they are not young aircraft and pulling high G will be a risk.

Everybody knows rafale plan has stall and LCA is not going well. How are you going to explain that? It will be impossible to replace everything with MKI and will be massive financial burden for India to handle.

USN uses hawkeye,the air force doesn't noob.If u think there is no difference in naval and air operations ur hopeless.Sweden uses it to save money and because it has no active enemies.Its effective only has a purely defensive platform monitoring ur own airspace from deep,in a aggressive war the type that china wants to wage.These are useless sitting ducks.

As to the transport fleet,the c-17 has actually entered service in case u didn't know.
EXaclty for AWACVS its similar numbers of actual quality AWACS.

My point was never to say IAF has advantage over PLAAF,a much bigger force.It was that it can deter any aggression and sever PLA supply lines.And that PLAAF doesn't have any quality advantage over us.While ur talking about the other planes u still fail to mention u have nothing comparable to 200 mkis and further 70 coming.
On the human pilot training thing,lower flying hours,political commisars,no exrecises..the same old story.

My point is not that IAF is superior to PLAAF,but that PLAAF has zero quality advantage over IAF and if it thinks it can just roll over the 'inferior' indians its in for a rude shock coz its nowhere near as good it thinks it is.China's main strength/advantage is its army not air force.And an army needs supplies.

 

[UKBengali]

@AUSTERLITZ - Please cut out the nonsense.

China's huge numbers of fighters will decimate the Indian air-force and the gap will get larger into the future.

China has around 300 J-10 and 300 Su-27/J-11 which makes a total of 600 4th generation aircraft.

India has around 200 SU-30MKI and 100 other Mirage 200/Mig-29 aircraft in comparison.

That gives China a 2:1 advantage.

China can afford to lose 300 fighters to wipe out the Indian air-force from the skies in if needs to.

Also, bear in mind that because China has more than 3 times the defence spending compared to India and the fact that it also purchases it's aircraft from it's own industry now, compare 40-50 million dollar for a J-10B as opposed to 80-90 million dollars for a Rafale for India, it will just keep increasing it's lead into the future.

IAF can give the PLAAF a hard time if China attacks but the Chinese will be able to decimate the Indian air-force and still keep around 300 of their best aircraft for future use.

And I don't want to hear this "quality" nonsense repeated as there is no hard evidence to suggest Chinese aircraft/pilots/doctrine is any worse or better than that of India.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Did u even read the thread noob?Or just came in here to spam ur babble.Read it first.ALso remember all chinese bases in the tibetian plateau are at a disadvantage in terms of payload/range due to height.And can also support only a limited amount of aircrft not the whole PLAAF.As for pilot quality ur the kind of noob who doesn't understand what lower flying hrs,political commisars,less comabt history and no exercises or foreign exposure means so i won't bother.