Can China’s Top Guns Fly?

[AUSTERLITZ]

Lol... You even need to fly a plane to launch a pathetic 300km missile into China and risk getting **** down? China second arty DF-21 and DF-15 with Mach 10 and 1500km and 2100km is enough to flatten any of your airbase nearby with a Mach 10 speed. Plus our CJ-10 cruise missile with 1600km range.

It's more like you trying hard to delude everybody in believing IAF superiority.
Talking about superior IAF training is just hot air. No prove to verify anything. At least I provided a video of digitalise training of PLAAF showing real upgrade of PLAAF 3rd generation level of top class training with use of advance training pod.

Logistic wise, I have already explain the wide network of our rail system to transport heavy equipment to anywhere in China to meet the threat of India. As for your India air defense network, Is all fill with crappy missiles or missile which we have knowledage of. It can be neutralise easily. As for your MKI, it will be well taken care of with our J-11B , J-10 and J-16. Nothin foresee of a threat to China. I seriously do not forsee how IAF going to neutralise any of our aerial superiority. Plus most of the IAF ammunition is filled with downgrade weapon sell from Russian and France. Nothing indignenuous to talk with. PLAAF already know the crappy R-77 bought from Russian and we decide to go with homemade PL-12 which already enter service in 2004. Not to mention other plenty of precision strike ammunition that we have display during zhuhai 2010 airshow.



Complete agreed with him regarding this old viet. This guy know he can't do anything to stop the rise of China. The only little action he can do is to make full use of his adopted country hiding under the US flag and hope to spread some Internet nonsense about China to satisfy his inferiority.

What is this threat of india?You are the aggressors here,not us.And just to prove that PLA knows that it can't actually sustain an offensive its turned its tail and ran back from the standoff much to the disappointment of trolls like you.
Keep calling spyder,akash sams crappy u ignorant idiot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb8ZdYw3SQE
Do take a good look at this video though.Its not an indian propaganda piece.Its an american programme.

Your pl-12 aam superior than rvv-ad r-77s?,so u think ur better at aircraft tech than russia now..lol only ccp propaganda can make u believe that.
Training u have nothing to say on lower flying hrs,no exercises,lesser combat record,zero exposure and political commisars.Your not the only ones that does digital training on simulators fool.The effect of all these negatives is all the proof one needs.Want more proof?Try a war.Wait ur army just trolled and failed at that.

There is no indian threat to china here,just chinese threat to india.And ur 'foreseeing' of PLAAF air superiority over indian territory is just a delusional fart.How are u going to do it anyway boy?With 16 squadrons and no equal aircraft of the mki?
And even those 16 squadrons will have to operate at 1/3 bomb/payload.........a MASSIVE disadvantage.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You wonder why? Very simple! This is typical of indians with inferiority complex+envy+frustration+disappointments

Inferiority complex=india's land is 1/3 of China; indian people are shorter, on average, than chinese; and their IQ is also lower (average chinese IQ 100, us IQ 98, indian IQ 81)

Envy= China is already a superpower, India is still in a dream (that hardly will become reality..)

Frustration=China is now developing almost all weapons and technology by herself while India is almost totally dependant from others. India don't even know how to copy (in order to save money), they say it's not a fair thing...you're a copycat..bla..bla..bla...but the truth is they simply cannot. What they are good for is only shopping.




I hope now you have understand why indians here like posting and laughing at chinese.

What I can't explain you is the post title: "Can China's Top Guns Fly?", I could ask "Can India's Top Gun FLy Too?"

IAF lost 29 fighter planes in past 3 years: Minister | Indian Military News
Indian Air Force lost half of MiG fighter jets in deadly crashes : North, News - India Today

after reading these links, the answer is obviously NO!

That is incredibly perceptive and insightful for a jerk who has not bothered to do anything but watch every passing remark for nearly two years. Where were you hiding all this time? Or were you polishing your incisive, withering responses?

Indians cheer whenever Chinese stumble because in their twisted mindset, they can benefit from our misfortune and catch up. The larger the gap between us and them, the more they hate and less energy is dedicated to actually working hard.

Oh, the energy and hard work is there.

This is not the best place to spot those. You will find the hate-filled cheering here, little else.

 

[Joe Shearer]

i think you guys dont realize just how recently china became rich(government wise), its inluence and interest expanded globally and started modernizing its military.

the entire chinese military is being remade from a force based on numbers and low tech, easy to produce hardware to a more Us style, high tech, expensive, mobile force. this is no small task by any means and takes time, and frankly its probably about right that chinese pilots/trainers were very conservative after all 30 years back a pilot(afterall these guys didnt have alot of training back then) was probably cheaper than the airplane itself(and the airframe was cheap). but it has starting changing greatly, more training, greater economy power, smaller but much more powerful force. the PLAAF is starting to take more risks because it can afford them now. the CPC has publically started a timeline for completion of mobilzation, theres much more to be done til we can complete with the US on equal terms(CPC is prediction 30ish years to go)

Perhaps you are mistaking the jumping-up-and-down, breast-beating, poop-flinging that goes on here with the response of the Indian military establishment. Or, for that matter, the Indian establishment in general. There is no doubt whatever in anyone's minds that China is going through a make-over, one that will turn its military inside out and convert it into a second- or third-grade version of the US military. That is not a derogatory remark, btw. If anyone thinks that China will equal US war-fighting skills overnight, absent the long series of armed conflicts where these skills have been honed, that is just delusional. However, that they will equal or over-reach most neighbouring nations is almost a given. And they will not face the military of Great Britain, France, or Germany in a foreseeable time-frame.

People recognise that, they are preparing very seriously for that, and do not indulge in public displays of hyper-patriotic fireworks. For one thing, they are too busy.

 

[applesauce]

I have airborne time in the cockpits of the F-111 and F-16. What do you guys have?

what about it? are you insecure or something? where did i say something specifically against you?

Perhaps...

you act like the "jumping-up-and-down, breast-beating, poop-flinging" only happens with regards to india,
it goes both ways.

and frankly china doesnt have to match the US war fighting skills/war equiptment overnight. the US has obligations all over the world, china does not, it merely needs to overwhelm the US in its still narrow areas of interests . and frankly unlike the military of the US, france/germany/UK does not pose any kinda of a threat to china, they may have nice toys, but far too few in numbers to fight a country like china, there no point in comparing with them.

and while we shouldnt praise the PLA to the sky, what they have done is only comparable to the general miracle that is the chinese economy as a whole, that is to say, no one has done what they have with at such a speed, yet the Chinese are achieving it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

what about it? are you insecure or something? where did i say something specifically against you?




you act like the "jumping-up-and-down, breast-beating, poop-flinging" only happens with regards to india,
it goes both ways.

and frankly china doesnt have to match the US war fighting skills/war equiptment overnight. the US has obligations all over the world, china does not, it merely needs to overwhelm the US in its still narrow areas of interests . and frankly unlike the military of the US, france/germany/UK does not pose any kinda of a threat to china, they may have nice toys, but far too few in numbers to fight a country like china, there no point in comparing with them.

and while we shouldnt praise the PLA to the sky, what they have done is only comparable to the general miracle that is the chinese economy as a whole, that is to say, no one has done what they have with at such a speed, yet the Chinese are achieving it.

First, it isn't clear what you mean by saying this animal behaviour 'goes both ways'. Are you saying that you have been at the receiving end, from Indians? If so, it is pathetic that you allow someone else to determine your behaviour. Particularly to allow someone else to reduce you to that kind of chimpanzee's tea party antics.

Second, India doesn't have to match Chinese war fighting skills or equipment overnight either. What you have cited for the China-US case is just as good for the India-China case.

Why don't you think things through before leaping into print?

Incidentally, my remark about the behaviour was aimed at Indian jingoes. You seem to have no time to read, less time to comprehend, otherwise you might have spotted that what I wrote is more or less what you repeated in your response.

 

[applesauce]

First, it isn't clear what you mean by saying this animal behaviour 'goes both ways'. Are you saying that you have been at the receiving end, from Indians? If so, it is pathetic that you allow someone else to determine your behaviour. Particularly to allow someone else to reduce you to that kind of chimpanzee's tea party antics.

plenty of indians troll in this forum, i am saying there are trolls from both side, and where did i let them determine my behavior? are you just talking from your south end now? where do u see me trolling?

Second, India doesn't have to match Chinese war fighting skills or equipment overnight either. What you have cited for the China-US case is just as good for the India-China case.

where did i say anything about india's military in this thread? and yes india currently does not have much to fear from the PLAN, certainly less worry than china has about the USN.

Why don't you think things through before leaping into print?

Incidentally, my remark about the behaviour was aimed at Indian jingoes. You seem to have no time to read, less time to comprehend, otherwise you might have spotted that what I wrote is more or less what you repeated in your response.

why dont you read and figure out who you're replying to before you type anything,

all i said was :

1) "jumping-up-and-down, breast-beating, poop-flinging" goes both ways evidence is all over these forums.

2) PLA does not have to match the US 1:1

if you feel the above 2 points are wrong, then go ahead and refute them

 

[Joe Shearer]

plenty of indians troll in this forum, i am saying there are trolls from both side, and where did i let them determine my behavior? are you just talking from your south end now? where do u see me trolling?



where did i say anything about india's military in this thread? and yes india currently does not have much to fear from the PLAN, certainly less worry than china has about the USN.



why dont you read and figure out who you're replying to before you type anything,

all i said was :

1) "jumping-up-and-down, breast-beating, poop-flinging" goes both ways evidence is all over these forums.

2) PLA does not have to match the US 1:1

if you feel the above 2 points are wrong, then go ahead and refute them

I have no time - really no time - to sort out the mental clouds within the minds of confused dunderheads.

 

[applesauce]

I have no time - really no time - to sort out the mental clouds within the minds of confused dunderheads.

you mean you got no point to make because you failed to read my first post thoroughly

 

[Joe Shearer]

you mean you got no point to make because you failed to read my first post thoroughly

No, I mean I have no time for apple sauce - the figurative variety.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Why did u again reopen the thread after being owned like a kid?

 

[Shinigami]

we indians are strange. on one hand we overestimate and overemphasize the chinese threat, on the other we ridicule and underestimate their AF

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

we indians are strange. on one hand we overestimate and overemphasize the chinese threat, on the other we ridicule and underestimate their AF

No one is underestimating PLAAF.In this thread all was doen was to shut up fanboy trolls badmouthing indian armed forces and IAF,and show them some ground realities about their propaganda hyped forces.Along with the facts already provided in the thread.Can you deny the below realities.

Despite PLA land advantage,India’s trumpcard, however, remains the IAF’s vastly superior offensive airpower projection capabilities, which include the following:
1) The IAF’s air bases in Jammu & Kashmir, Uttarakhand and western Uttar Pradesh enable its Su-30MKIs and MiG-29UPGs (plus the Mirage 2000UPGs, Tejas Mk1s and re-engined Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 in future) to takeoff with their maximum permissible weapons payloads and enter Chinese airspace by stealth by utilising their terrain-masking capabilities—something not possible to be achieved by the PLAAF due to the flat terrain at much higher altitudes prevailing within TAR.
2) The PLAAF lacks the IAF’s experience (since 1999) of undertaking sustained high-altitude offensive air campaigns.

3) The IAF presently possesses superior intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance (ISTAR) capabilities, thanks to the usage by the Su-30MKI of ELTA Systems-supplied ELM-2060P SAR pods and their ground-based real-time and land-mobile imagery exploitation stations, plus the RAFAEL Advanced Defence Systems-supplied RecceLite pods (meant for Su-30MKIs) and their related ground-based imagery exploitation stations.
4) Most critically, none of the PLAAF’s combat aircraft have on-board oxygen generation systems (OBOGS), the consequence of this being the Su-27SKs, Su-30MKKs and J-10s will either be forced to fly at medium altitudes not exceeding 14,000 feet, or fly for very limited durations at higher altitudes due to the very limited number of compressed liquid oxygen bottles that each such aircraft can carry. The IAF’s Su-30MKIs, MiG-29UPGs, Mirage 2000UPGs, Tejas Mk1s, Jaguar IS/DARIN-3s and Rafales, on the other hand, will suffer from no such restrictions since all of them have to will have integral OBOGS installations produced by Larsen & Toubro. Consequently, during dissimilar air combat engagements—both within visual range and beyond visual range—the Su-30MKIs, even without airborne battle management cues being provided by A-50I PHALCON platforms, will, with the help of ground-controlled intercept (GCI) cues, be easily be able to outperform and outmanoeuvre any of the PLAAF’s existing combat aircraft assets.

Also 14000 feet is well within the reach of both SPYDER and AKASH sams.So ther will be hell from the ground as well for any bandits.

5) The PLAAF has been able thus far to deploy its KJ-2000 AEW & CS platforms to only Lhasa-Gonggar Airport with little success, meaning the KJ-2000 has been discovered to suffer from endurance deficiencies and the PLAAF has therefore concluded that instead of the KJ-2000, the smaller turboprop-powered ZDK-03 AEW & CS platforms would be more suitable for deployment throughout TAR, but ONLY IF their engines are uprated and their cabin pressurisation systems are upgraded as well--tasks that are unlikely to be completed before 2016.However these turboprop AWACs would be terribly vulnerable operating anywhere near enemy airspace.
6) Finally, the PLA's existing range of tactical UAVs, including the ASN-229A, have been found out to have very limited endurance levels when flying above-ground-level, and are totally not flightworthy over Aksai Chin. Efforts are now underway to develop the CH-4B MALE-UAV version of the existing CH-4A Wing Loong Pterodactyl UCAV in order to overcome such tactical airborne reconnaissance and surveillance limitations. By 2017, the PLAAF plans to induct into service the turbofan-powered Xianglong Soar Dragon HALE-UAV for dedicated reconnaissance and surveillance missions over northwestern TAR.

The reality works both ways..on land our reality may be unenviable,n air hardly so.

 

[applesauce]

No, I mean I have no time for apple sauce - the figurative variety.

you mean you cant refute any of the points i have made and now resort to pointless posts

 

[Joe Shearer]

you mean you cant refute any of the points i have made and now resort to pointless posts

No, I mean that when somebody is such a simpleton as to misunderstand, due to lack of linguistic ability or lack of general comprehension, the first post made, there is no point in protracting a conversation. I suggest you go back and re-read the earlier posts, specifically #123, instead of asking for silly clarifications. Consult one of your neighbours who uses English as a first language, since obviously parsing a simple sentence, or a sequence of sentences is beyond your capability.

There is nothing in your posts that deserves a detailed reply. You are not well-versed in these things, and need some excuse to keep flailing on - "resort to pointless posts", as has been very well put - or you would not persist in a pointless exchange.

 

[ice bomb]

No one is underestimating PLAAF.In this thread all was doen was to shut up fanboy trolls badmouthing indian armed forces and IAF,and show them some ground realities about their propaganda hyped forces.Along with the facts already provided in the thread.Can you deny the below realities.

Despite PLA land advantage,India’s trumpcard, however, remains the IAF’s vastly superior offensive airpower projection capabilities, which include the following:
1) The IAF’s air bases in Jammu & Kashmir, Uttarakhand and western Uttar Pradesh enable its Su-30MKIs and MiG-29UPGs (plus the Mirage 2000UPGs, Tejas Mk1s and re-engined Jaguar IS/DARIN-3 in future) to takeoff with their maximum permissible weapons payloads and enter Chinese airspace by stealth by utilising their terrain-masking capabilities—something not possible to be achieved by the PLAAF due to the flat terrain at much higher altitudes prevailing within TAR.

Wdf is terrain masking capabilities? We are talking about flankers who are gigantic on radars. Less bravado here please.

2) The PLAAF lacks the IAF’s experience (since 1999) of undertaking sustained high-altitude offensive air campaigns.

Ehh, it was mostly won by the ground force.

3) The IAF presently possesses superior intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance (ISTAR) capabilities, thanks to the usage by the Su-30MKI of ELTA Systems-supplied ELM-2060P SAR pods and their ground-based real-time and land-mobile imagery exploitation stations, plus the RAFAEL Advanced Defence Systems-supplied RecceLite pods (meant for Su-30MKIs) and their related ground-based imagery exploitation stations.

IAF has an edge , but it is nowhere as large as you claimed to be. You are still limited to a platform-centric thinking. Nothing indicated IAF has superior C4Rs compared to China.

4) Most critically, none of the PLAAF’s combat aircraft have on-board oxygen generation systems (OBOGS), the consequence of this being the Su-27SKs, Su-30MKKs and J-10s will either be forced to fly at medium altitudes not exceeding 14,000 feet, or fly for very limited durations at higher altitudes due to the very limited number of compressed liquid oxygen bottles that each such aircraft can carry. The IAF’s Su-30MKIs, MiG-29UPGs, Mirage 2000UPGs, Tejas Mk1s, Jaguar IS/DARIN-3s and Rafales, on the other hand, will suffer from no such restrictions since all of them have to will have integral OBOGS installations produced by Larsen & Toubro.

It is funny that you care comparing non inducted aircrafts like LCAs and Rafales and their future systems to current chinese jets. That is like someone compare J-20 to Su-30 MKIs.

Consequently, during dissimilar air combat engagements—both within visual range and beyond visual range—the Su-30MKIs, even without airborne battle management cues being provided by A-50I PHALCON platforms, will, with the help of ground-controlled intercept (GCI) cues, be easily be able to outperform and outmanoeuvre any of the PLAAF’s existing combat aircraft assets.

Using GCIs to support a strike into chinese airspace? Muhahhahahah. That says alot about your lack of understanding of modern air battle.

Also 14000 feet is well within the reach of both SPYDER and AKASH sams.So ther will be hell from the ground as well for any bandits.

They are short range SAMs.

5) The PLAAF has been able thus far to deploy its KJ-2000 AEW & CS platforms to only Lhasa-Gonggar Airport with little success, meaning the KJ-2000 has been discovered to suffer from endurance deficiencies and the PLAAF has therefore concluded that instead of the KJ-2000, the smaller turboprop-powered ZDK-03 AEW & CS platforms would be more suitable for deployment throughout TAR, but ONLY IF their engines are uprated and their cabin pressurisation systems are upgraded as well--tasks that are unlikely to be completed before 2016.However these turboprop AWACs would be terribly vulnerable operating anywhere near enemy airspace.

Save us your ignorance please. They are stationed in Jiangsu Province, facing Japan and Taiwan. Together with the rest of their better aircrafts. That got to do with threat perception, not ability.

6) Finally, the PLA's existing range of tactical UAVs, including the ASN-229A, have been found out to have very limited endurance levels when flying above-ground-level, and are totally not flightworthy over Aksai Chin. Efforts are now underway to develop the CH-4B MALE-UAV version of the existing CH-4A Wing Loong Pterodactyl UCAV in order to overcome such tactical airborne reconnaissance and surveillance limitations. By 2017, the PLAAF plans to induct into service the turbofan-powered Xianglong Soar Dragon HALE-UAV for dedicated reconnaissance and surveillance missions over northwestern TAR.

The reality works both ways..on land our reality may be unenviable,n air hardly so.

Igrance speaking. The terrain isnt suited for air battle. Not to mention that most of the important targets are well outside Tibet.
It is called strategic depth.