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Can Babur and Raad penitrate Indian defence system

What has this to do with tracking of missiles?

Off topic but you know Ghazwatulhind Ahadis are Credible and one can talk about them any time of the day and week but in some thread that is relevant.

No doubt about that, Ghazwa e Hind hadith is a part of Emaan of Muslims.. BUT there's a place to discuss something..

Will make a thread in future but our Indian friends will get pissed off so I think we shouldn't be discussing it NOW, all the Pakistanis knows about it, AND it's better not to discuss it because some Bharatis might use some words which are NOT to be tolerated for Hadith of Rasool ALLAH [S.A.W].. I'm not saying they will do it intentionally but still they don't know the sensitivity of Islamic religious matters :)
 
We have to wait for comments from any Military experts than make any self based assumptions, well lets see what military experts will add to this thread.
 
Hi All

No Flames Please real Time scanerio


Can any one pls explain the threats of babur and Raad and how we will counter it.


Can babur Pentitrate Spyder Defence or can Spyder Defence intercepted Babur

Can babur Pentitrate Iron Dome or can Iron Dome intercepted Babur

Second Stage Can babur Pentitrate S300 or or can S300 intercepted Babur

Iron Dome vs Babur

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LAND_SAM_SPYDER_MR-SR_CONOPS_Comparison_lg.jpg


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Lets Discuss some of the points

An effective cruise missile defense must have four basic elements. Those elements are:
■ the capability to detect and then track a cruise missile after it is launched;
■ interceptors to destroy the attacking cruise missile;
■ a battle management and communications network that ties the first two elements
together and allows for seamless real-time engagements; and
■ the ability to effectively predict and manage the consequences of a cruise missile
attack.

Nither Spyder Defence nor Iron Dome intecept Babur cruise missile.

Babar is stealth missile and is a terrain-hugging, radar avoiding cruise missile.

Source 1

The missile is stated to have a high degree of maneuverability, allowing it to "hug" the terrain, and "near-stealth" capabilities.[9] Terrain hugging ability helps the missile avoid enemy radar detection by utilizing "terrain masking", giving Babur the capability to penetrate enemy air defence systems undetected and survive until reaching the target

Weki Source

275px-BaburCruise.jpg
 
Nither Spyder Defence nor Iron Dome intecept Babur cruise missile.

Babar is stealth missile and is a terrain-hugging, radar avoiding cruise missile.

Source 1



Weki Source

275px-BaburCruise.jpg

There is nothing called Radar Avoiding cruise missile.
BABUR and RAAD are terrain hugging cruise missiles which allows them to stay under radar and hence are difficult to detect BUT it does not mean they can not be detected..As jagjitnatt explained..IF these are used to target border region they have maximum chances of being successful . However if they are used to hit target more than 100 within borderline , the chances of detection and hence shooting them down increases exponentially..
 
Nither Spyder Defence nor Iron Dome intecept Babur cruise missile.

Babar is stealth missile and is a terrain-hugging, radar avoiding cruise missile.

Source 1



Weki Source

275px-BaburCruise.jpg

first of all there is nothing known as stealth missile. a missile may have low observability features or a low RCS but it can be detected unlike a stealth fighter. so stop dreaming.
 
There is nothing called Radar Avoiding cruise missile.
BABUR and RAAD are terrain hugging cruise missiles which allows them to stay under radar and hence are difficult to detect BUT it does not mean they can not be detected..As jagjitnatt explained..IF these are used to target border region they have maximum chances of being successful . However if they are used to hit target more than 100 within borderline , the chances of detection and hence shooting them down increases exponentially..

n.b. the underlined part.
This is where the AWACS and AEROSTATs come in to the equation. And change the variables. And help to resolve the equation more successfully.
 
Even terrain hugging missiles can be tracked by radars. And I hope you already know, that when in terrain hugging mode, the range of a missile is easily reduced to 1/4th of its original range, due to much higher drag, and denser atmosphere.

If the missile is targeted at some place that is 20-30 kms within Indian border, then there is little we can do to stop it, but if you are thinking of hitting something 400-500 kms within India, that will be very tough to do.

With what? None of your missle air defense systems is accurate to even 50%. If U.S. Patriot Missile Defense System (the best in the world) is accurate at its very best 80%, you think yours is better? Grow up kid. Ours missiles can reach deep inside india and there is very very little you can do to stop it. And if you could have you would have done so after the supposed mumbai massacre. But your generals knew better. :woot:
 
Here is a new job for you guys.....coat it with RAM.Atleast a dozen of them,will be enough to test the outcome and get whatever is there 500 or 600 km inside.If it doesn't work even after that....not a big waste.


radar.jpg


Get these from somewhere.:D
 
n.b. the underlined part.
This is where the AWACS and AEROSTATs come in to the equation. And change the variables. And help to resolve the equation more successfully.

:agree::agree::agree:

And thats why we are seeing a lot of activities in these areas..AWACs and AEROSTATs need to be inducted in nos...
 
Don't you guys think that before launching cruise missiles, both sides are gonna try to destroy / damage each others air defence network through aerial hits (anti-radiation missiles) or EW methods and once those are down or some path is cleared up, then cruise missiles are launched to hit deep targets as they will have uninterrupted passage to go through.

As far as i know, first step would be to destroy each others AD and Air Forces and then go on with the aerial bombardment of strategic areas through manned or unmanned platform, meaning fighter jets / cruise missiles.

Her koiee choohhaaa marnay chalay hain but yea nahien pata kae maarnaa kaisay hai. :)

---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

Don't you guys think that before launching cruise missiles, both sides are gonna try to destroy / damage each others air defence network through aerial hits (anti-radiation missiles) or EW methods and once those are down or some path is cleared up, then cruise missiles are launched to hit deep targets as they will have uninterrupted passage to go through.

As far as i know, first step would be to destroy each others AD and Air Forces and then go on with the aerial bombardment of strategic areas through manned or unmanned platform, meaning fighter jets / cruise missiles.

Her koiee choohhaaa marnay chalay hain but yea nahien pata kae maarnaa kaisay hai. :)
 
first of all there is nothing known as stealth missile. a missile may have low observability features or a low RCS but it can be detected unlike a stealth fighter. so stop dreaming.

what?????? stealth aircraft and stealth missile both have low observability. If both bodies have similar RCS, then how a missile can be detected while a fighter can not be? may you please enlighten us on this.....
 
Defensive strategies for dealing with cruise missile threats fall broadly into two categories, the first being the denial or deterrence of launch and counterforce strategies, the second being the interception of launched weapons.

Deterrence strategies amount to threatening credible retaliation, regardless of weapons used.
Counterforce strategies amount to pre-emptive destruction of the opponent's cruise missile capability before it can be deployed or launched. This approach requires similar capabilities to deterrence, but involves much more specific targeting.
Denial of launch strategies amount to shooting the archer, not the arrow paraphrasing the 1980s US Maritime Strategy. This involves killing cruise missile carrying aircraft, sinking cruise missile armed ships/subs, or destroying ground mobile TELs before they have the opportunity to fire. This approach also requires a robust force structure, including good maritime and land strike capabilities, good air defence capabilities, and good ASW capabilities.

Interception of launched cruise missiles presents its own challenges, especially in terms of fighter persistence, speed, missile payload, radar performance, tanker and AEW&C numbers. However, in strategic terms it is often the only option left, especially during the period preceding an outbreak of full scale hostilities. As cruise missiles present an attractive first strike weapon to disrupt air defence infrastructure, their use is most likely in the opening round of a conflict.
To implement either deterrent or direct counterforce strategies to defeat an opposing cruise missile force requires significant targeting and strike capability. This strategy requires that a opposing force armed with cruise missiles be attacked and destroyed in situ, for instance by demolishing airfields, launch aircraft and missile stocks on the ground, or by analogous strikes against naval bases hosting cruise missile armed warships or submarines.

Targeting, with the exception of ground mobile TELs, is less challenging as airfields and naval bases are large fixed infrastructure which can be effectively surveilled using satellites or human intelligence assets, although timeliness can be an issue if signs of strike preparation are the trigger for a pre-emptive attack. Cruise missile warfare like ballistic missile warfare to a large extent obeys the use them or lose them rule, and there are strong incentives to fire off as much of the war stock as early as possible in a campaign.

Interdicting cruise missile armed submarines, or intercepting cruise missile carrying aircraft, also present interesting challenges. However, while a riskier strategy than counterforce strikes in situ, interdiction/interception achieves a similar effect by inflicting cumulative attrition on the opponent's delivery force. Rather than destroying the force in a small number of concurrent or closely timed strikes, the attrition occurs overs days or weeks as the opponent's assets are ground down to impotence. In political terms counterforce strikes, especially if pre-emptive, are problematic, but interdiction/interception of delivery platforms presents a clear cut case of defensive action with clear hostile intent by an opponent. The risk is that not every opposing platform is stopped before it launches, and that many will escape to attack yet again.

When interdiction of a submarine or interception of a strike aircraft fails, and cruise missiles are launched, the default strategy is then to engage and destroy these before they reach their targets.

In practice any model for defeating a cruise missile armed opponent must be multi-layered, even if the counterforce strike option is not implementable due to inadequate strike capabilities. Launch platforms must be detected, tracked and engaged, and if this fails, the cruise missiles must be detected, tracked and engaged. The air-sea gap is valuable in this respect, as it provides a defacto free-fire zone for fighters tasked with cruise missile intercepts, and the distances involved provide for repeat engagement opportunities, fighter fuel and weapon payloads permitting.

Reliance on land based SAM systems for terminal defence of target areas is a popular but relatively ineffective strategy, as high performance SAMs with expensive high power-aperture radars are required, and even with mast mounted antennas to improve coverage the footprint is bounded by ranges of miles to at most tens of miles. Placing SAM batteries on warships increases this expense for some gain in mobility.
 
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