Can a Muslim be an Indian?

[VCheng]

Sorry, but your turnaround is irrelevant to the subject. What does my being Pakistani have to do with the condition of Indian muslims(many of whom are relatives). Moreover, by trying to turn the question around you seem to have little interest in the topic itself and seem to only focus on derailing it to some sort of Pakistan focused deriding tirade(for which you have ample space on other threads to do so).

No Sir.

Pakistan was cleaved off from India as a separate homeland for Muslims of the subcontinent, and hence it is pertinent to ask whether it also carried with it the monopoly to define Muslim identity with it or not, and the answer is directly applicable to to the question whether a Muslim can be Indian still, which is the title.

 

[Donatello]

I just fell off the chair as I read it.
"Hug-able" moment? Lolzz

On topic....
The opinion of these netizens is nothing but a drop in the sea they can not influnece the large majority outside. I dont take them seriously because, one ,majority of them 're teenagers masquerading here as Mr.Know it all. Two, the anonymity helps them in making more malevolent opinion which otherwise is subdued.

Except that there is this thing called having a life, and travelling the world. Your eyes, ears and experience, the triple eee, tell you a lot more than the internet.

I beg to differ.
I'm so sure that the internet warriors who hide behind anonymity of forums and who make feral attacks on us seculars dont behave so in their day to day life. Where's the comparison??
We cant not draw conclusions on the basis of the opinions of a few netizens.


Then I would say Jinnah and Nehru played in the hands of Britishers.
I am in no way underestimating what they have done for their respective countries.

Yea, just like i've met Indians in real life who claim Jinnah was a 'British agent' brought in to break 'India'

 

[scorpionx]

yes it is senseless when atheism and secularism only meant demeaning hindus. It's all good bro, we deserve that.

Now you are being naive, my friend. First, Indians in this forum has made those words a joke. If you have problem with Sazia Ilmi or Sardesai, there is a way to do it. What is happening here is people, anything against Indians are blaming on Congress or seculars. By the way, I did not notice any body questioning the ideological belief of Karnataka government when a whole LeT camp was found in Belgum. Is it ignorance or hypocricy?

 

[ranjeet]

Now you are being naive, my friend. First, Indians in this forum has made those words a joke. If you have problem with Sazia Ilmi or Sardesai, there is a way to do it. What is happening here is people, anything against Indians are blaming on Congress or seculars. By the way, I did not notice any body questioning the ideological belief of Karnataka government when a whole LeT camp was found in Belgum. Is it ignorance or hypocricy?

Is it Indians here or the parties which were playing vote bank politics under the garb of secularism or atheism which made these words a joke? if you are unable to admit that this bogey has been ridden for far too much then please don't put the blame on the right wing.

 

[SQ8]

No Sir.

Pakistan was cleaved off from India as a separate homeland for Muslims of the subcontinent, and hence it is pertinent to ask whether it also carried with it the monopoly to define Muslim identity with it or not, and the answer is directly applicable to to the question whether a Muslim can be Indian still, which is the title.

Cleaved off it may be, but it has little relevance to the Muslim identity of India TODAY. Because they are the determinants of that identity and the actions/inaction of any Pakistani Muslim on them also only involve the Indians and hence it is their domestic issue and prerogative to define it. Whether or not Pakistan eschews or upholds the entirety of Muslim identity only reflects at the end on the decisions made by Indians themselves. Hence, while a factor.. what Pakistanis should do about it is none of their business.

Pakistani Muslims(regardless of how they feel) are in no way accountable for the conditions of the Indian Muslim today. That depends on the reactions of the rest of the Indian population and the Indian Muslims themselves. If the Indian majority believes or the Indian Muslim believes that they do not belong in India but instead in Pakistan.. the acceptance or rejection of that is an entirely Indian matter.

 

[Levina]

Now that is at the end the quintessential "Get me out of here" argument.

Not at all...

So whether 1 & 2 apply or not, these opinions matter to YOU otherwise you would not be here and hence in a rather comical twist have branded yourself alongside the 1 & 2.

Did you miss the word "majority" in my post??
And I can very confidently say that you cant categorise me among 1&2.

Now let me remind you that your posts which were made to regale the audience here 're completely off topic.

From what I know in holy book of Quran an appeal has been made to all the followers of Islam to be loyal to their country, serve in the interest of their nation, be tolerant towards other religions.
And if a "musalman" doesnt follow what is instructed in Quran then that person is not worthy of being called a musalman at all.

 

[scorpionx]

Is it Indians here or the parties which were playing vote bank politics under the garb of secularism or atheism which made these words a joke? if you are unable to admit that this bogey has been ridden for far too much then please don't put the blame on the right wing.

I blame both as utter idiocacy, be it from political parties or Indian members here.

 

[Levina]

Except that there is this thing called having a life, and travelling the world. Your eyes, ears and experience, the triple eee, tell you a lot more than the internet.

And where are we headed with this post???
Its not in context.

Yea, just like i've met Indians in real life who claim Jinnah was a 'British agent' brought in to break 'India'

Did I say that about Jinnah??? Or have you miscinstrued my post again??
I would hold Jinnah and Nehru equally responsible for dividing India.In their naiveness they have gifted us decades of hatred. Had they seen through the British game plan then my country would not 've had to suffer so much.

 

[SQ8]

Not at all...


Did you miss the word "majority" in my post??
And I can very confidently say that you cant categorise me among 1&2.

Now let me remind you that your posts which were made to regale the audience here 're completely off topic.

From what I know in holy book of Quran an appeal has been made to all the followers of Islam to be loyal to their country, serve in the interest of their nation, be tolerant towards other religions.
And if a "musalman" doesnt follow what is instructed in Quran then that person is not worthy of being called a musalman at all.

You never specified you were a minority either. So the majority then means little without specification on who is the minority.

What the Quran appeals has little to do with the sentiments being played out. Take the rather pointless issue raised over verses found in the paper used for crackers on Diwali. A political element used that ploy to create communal tensions and then "snap" .. the "love Jihad" issue is propped up again. Previous communal tensions aside(UP being the major focus), this time it seems like a broader focus on demonizing Islam within India.
Terrorism has provided that fuel to this pre-existent fire. Indian muslims as patriotic as they are are bound to feel the heat from this newfound angst.

 

[VCheng]

Cleaved off it may be, but it has little relevance to the Muslim identity of India TODAY. Because they are the determinants of that identity and the actions/inaction of any Pakistani Muslim on them also only involve the Indians and hence it is their domestic issue and prerogative to define it. Whether or not Pakistan eschews or upholds the entirety of Muslim identity only reflects at the end on the decisions made by Indians themselves. Hence, while a factor.. what Pakistanis should do about it is none of their business.

Pakistani Muslims(regardless of how they feel) are in no way accountable for the conditions of the Indian Muslim today. That depends on the reactions of the rest of the Indian population and the Indian Muslims themselves. If the Indian majority believes or the Indian Muslim believes that they do not belong in India but instead in Pakistan.. the acceptance or rejection of that is an entirely Indian matter.

So it is your contention that Muslim identity in India be seen as a separate issue from Pakistan when Pakistan itself continues to define its own identity in terms that are clearly based in its origins from India. Your capitalization of "TODAY" would imply that you regard as the amount of time passed since independence to be an important factor in seeing this as separate issues. Does this mean that more time can be expected to allow Pakistan to develop its own identity that is more independent of its roots?

It may be that it is impossible to separate these two issues given their common origin and continuous reinforcement of this division in order to gain domestic political advantages, no matter how long of a period has passed, since the national identity of Pakistan depends on it so much.

 

[ranjeet]

I blame both as utter idiocacy, be it from political parties or Indian members here.

the fact that you can't blame one for the rise of other ... makes you sickular. No offence bro. I am ready to take a step back if you can convince me that vote bank politics didn't make the majority feel marginalized.

 

[SQ8]

Does this mean that more time can be expected to allow Pakistan to develop its own identity that is more independent of its roots?

It may be that it is impossible to separate these two issues given their common origin and continuous reinforcement of this division in order to gain domestic political advantages, no matter how long of a period has passed, since the national identity of Pakistan depends on it so much.

The bolded part is the simplest way to separate the issues. It is a Pakistani issue and not an Indian one. The topic in discussion is an Indian one. The identities the two issues had in 47 and their connections have no play on the ownership of the issue for the Indian side.

 

[VCheng]

The bolded part is the simplest way to separate the issues. It is a Pakistani issue and not an Indian one. The topic in discussion is an Indian one. The identities the two issues had in 47 and their connections have no play on the ownership of the issue for the Indian side.

Good point, which also means that the national identity of Pakistan is based on religion, while that of India is secular, and therefore nullifies the question being asked, religion having no place in defining who is Indian and who is not.

 

[Donatello]

And where are we headed with this post???
Its not in context.

Did I say that about Jinnah??? Or have you miscinstrued my post again??
I would hold Jinnah and Nehru equally responsible for dividing India.In their naiveness they have gifted us decades of hatred. Had they seen through the British game plan then my country would not 've had to suffer so much.

My post was in reference to your post that People hide behind internet names and spew what they can. However, if the same people you met in real life, you will learn a lot more.

 

[ranjeet]

You never specified you were a minority either. So the majority then means little without specification on who is the minority.

What the Quran appeals has little to do with the sentiments being played out. Take the rather pointless issue raised over verses found in the paper used for crackers on Diwali. A political element used that ploy to create communal tensions and then "snap" .. the "love Jihad" issue is propped up again. Previous communal tensions aside(UP being the major focus), this time it seems like a broader focus on demonizing Islam within India.
Terrorism has provided that fuel to this pre-existent fire. Indian muslims as patriotic as they are are bound to feel the heat from this newfound angst.

there was no issue of crackers made out of Quran it was all hoax ... love jihad came out of Kerala and it was raised by Christians. One doesn't have to do much to demonize Islam than what people been doing in ME under the guise of Islam.

Muslims are patriotic as they can be but one can not deny of certain elements who are working against the state just as they are doing it in Pakistan.