Calm dissection of Delhi riots from a non-Hindutva perspective

[El Sidd]

No genocide can happen in modern times..Even the most rabid Hindutvabadi understands that..the moment a genocide happens, is also the moment the state loses its legitimacy..at maxx only the same tactics can be carried as the ones employed by the Chinese state on the Uyghurs--->But I have been informed by Eminent Pak intellectuals on pdf that everything is hunky dory there

Africa says hello to you if you believe humans have grown or evolved past genocides.

Maybe you don't even consider them humans enough to count the atrocities happening in Africa as per you Pure and Unpure Nazi Dogma

 

[Sine Nomine]

We still have 20 percent minority (over 200 million) while our exalted neighbours reduced theirs to negligible levels...

I didn't expect from you this kind of intellectual dishonesty,on lighter note most of Pakistani Hindu minority segment was based in East Pakistan and after break down it went to BD.

 

[SecularNationalist]

West Pakistan didnot have 80 million population in 1947...it was 40 million rest 40 million coming from East Pakistan...Hindus constituted 15 percent of the population in 1947 in present day West Pakistan...and as I said there may be riots in India (pogrom is only relevant in persecution of Jews), they affect a negligible miniscule protion of both the minority and majority community...The day Pakistan has 20 percent religious minority from Dharmic traditions (might as well be Buddhists,Jains,Ajivikas or Sikhs and not necessarily Hindus) is the day Pakistan can lecture India which hosts ca. 20 percent minority from Abrahamic traidtions...end of story...till then you are a monochromatic society...



It doesn't have to be Hindu population...It can be 20 percent Buddhist,Jains or Sikhs as well...no Pakistan shares an unique relationship with India and therefore it has to fulfill these conditions before it lectures or feels chastising India...till then let India's Muslims be the concern of India..thank you...without a substantial non-Abrahamic population,you donot have moral fibre to pontificate on our situation...you might have ton wait till the Sun rises in the West,the mountains turn to dust, the continents melt into lava before India breaks up

The point is we have a minority religions and we pakistanis and our government is not atrocious towards them like India. Doesn't matter what percentage.
It the the attitude of non abrahamic Hindu leadership like modi which made pakistan in the first place. You are the ones who caused partition in the first place,so before you complain about less non abrahamic population in the present day Pakistan ,you need to look at what non abrahamic population in Bharat mata is doing to the abrahamic population overthere.You will have your answer why pakistan was made and why non abrahamic population is less here. Each and every accusation and complain of yours to Pakistan will end up as your own mistake.
But you shameless bhartis will never accept it because second term of modi RSS has changed your DNA and genes.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The point is we have a minority religions and we pakistanis and our government is not atrocious towards them like India. Doesn't matter what percentage.
It the the attitude of non abrahamic Hindu leadership like modi which made pakistan in the first place. You are the ones who caused partition in the first place,so before you complain about less non abrahamic population in the present day Pakistan ,you need to look at what non abrahamic population in Bharat mata is doing to the abrahamic population overthere.You will have your answer why pakistan was made and why non abrahamic population is less here. Each and every accusation and complain of yours to Pakistan will end up as your own mistake.
But you shameless bhartis will never accept it because second term of modi RSS has changed your DNA and genes.

percentages change everything Old Boi

I didn't expect from you this kind of intellectual dishonesty,on lighter note most of Pakistani Hindu minority segment was based in East Pakistan and after break down it went to BD.

British Census 1941 West Pakistan-----Hindus were 15 percent there pre-partition...

Africa says hello to you if you believe humans have grown or evolved past genocides.

Maybe you don't even consider them humans enough to count the atrocities happening in Africa as per you Pure and Unpure Nazi Dogma

I am talking of post broadband Youtube age...yes I know of Darfur and Rwanda

 

[SIPRA]

British Census 1941 West Pakistan-----Hindus were 15 percent there pre-partition...

Array Bhai: Yeh kaun say puraanay qissay khol ker baeth gaye ho?

 

[N.Siddiqui]

British Census 1941 West Pakistan-----Hindus were 15 percent there pre-partition...

How can anyone blatantly disregard the migration of Hindus of Pakistan to India and of Muslims from India to Pakistan. And that 15% includes the higher percentage of Hindus in East Pakistan.

The migration on both sides was going on till early 60's.

 

[jamahir]

that said I will accept that since the mid 90s there has been a growing anathema towards Muslims in many parts of the North Indian state machinery, which has just exacerbated since the mass adoption of the Internet

Which is why I say that many Indians are literate but not educated. There are no Humanist teachings in the so-called Indian Education System.

 

[Sine Nomine]

British Census 1941 West Pakistan-----Hindus were 15 percent there pre-partition...

So migration due to partition is also fault of Pakistan?

 

[SecularNationalist]

Array Bhai: Yeh kaun say puraanay qissay khol ker baeth gaye ho?

That's the only argument left for indians whenever their atrocities to minorities are exposed.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

So migration due to partition is also fault of Pakistan?

History is not something that simply dies in the subcontinent...let's be real

How can anyone blatantly disregard the migration of Hindus of Pakistan to India and of Muslims from India to Pakistan. And that 15% includes the higher percentage of Hindus in East Pakistan.

The migration on both sides was going on till early 60's.

15% is solely the figures from WEST PAKISTAN...based on the British census of 1941...please donot deliberately overlook this

https://www.newslaundry.com/2015/01/09/the-vanishing-hindus-of-pakistan-a-demographic-study-2

Array Bhai: Yeh kaun say puraanay qissay khol ker baeth gaye ho?

Sir..yeh aap bhi jaantay hain or hum ko bhi maloom hain----------------->Partition is the collective PTSD event of the subcontinent...and just like Germans didnot really come to terms with the Holocaust, we subcontinentals never really reconciled ourselves to the terrible things we did to eachother in those few months...It's as if we became eternal Hindus and eternal Muslims from that moment, shedding everyother identity we ever had....The events of that long 12 months have and will continue to influence the politics of the ensuing 300 years...whether we like it or not

 

[SIPRA]

Sir..yeh aap bhi jaantay hain or hum ko bhi maloom hain----------------->Partition is the collective PTSD event of the subcontinent...and just like Germans didnot really come to terms with the Holocaust, we subcontinentals never really reconciled ourselves to the terrible things we did to eachother in those few months...It's as if we became eternal Hindus and eternal Muslims from that moment, shedding everyother identity we ever had....The events of that long 12 months have and will continue to influence the politics of the ensuing 300 years...whether we like it or not

A very despairing picture, no doubt. Yes, sociopolitical progression takes its own course, whether we like it or not.

 

[El Sidd]

I am talking of post broadband Youtube age...yes I know of Darfur and Rwanda

Whatsapp videos from India also go along the same lines as Rwanda and Congo.

The close knit culture allows RSS Nazis an efficient intelligentsia to carry out the cleansing

 

[Sine Nomine]

History is not something that simply dies in the subcontinent...let's be real

True that but that's intellectual dishonesty to put what happened due to partition in basket of Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

U r just barely disappointed with Modi? It was clear to me what type of a person he was based on his track record(Gujarat massacre happened under his watch and he did nothing), his close relations with RSS, etc. He came with promises of an economic miracle and quickly turned his efforts to steer ppl's attention away from domestic problems and towards creating the boogeyman of Pakistan.

All of it was quite evident from the start...idk how u guys didn't see it coming. Even after trying him for one term still the Indian masses didn't see him for who he was. I was quite surprised how the Indian masses were such fans of him...I think I had a discussion with @Joe Shearer about how Modi will successfully get reelected based on all the propaganda he has fooled the ppl with...and Joe said that ppl are waking up to it. It's too late to wake up to it now...the damage is done. The seeds of hatred that have been sown will have far reaching impact that will last for generations to come.

I write this as someone who saw through Modi long before anyone in either country recognised him as a threat.

You are broadly right, but only broadly. Unfortunately, you display the usual Pakistani trend of taking an apocalyptic view of India's present and future, irrespective of when in time you take the view: it is invariant, and it doesn't matter whether you are looking at 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010, or, now, 2020. The expressions of concern that I hear now ring hollow against the background of the pitched hostility at all times in the past; it never let up, what difference does it make if it is couched in terms of the end of days now? It was always pitched like that, among 'green' bhakts, although there has always been a counter-narrative in Pakistan, a stream of thought that Indian liberals of my sort clung on to in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Coming to the details, if you have managed to hold on till now, the Modi formula was not and never will be universal. 'You can fool all the people some of the time....' and so on. It is visibly not universal even now. If you will not take the trouble of wading through the gallons of nausea-inducing garbage in the air-waves - and who can blame you? - you will never get to understand the limited support initially, or even that it was in fact limited, or the subsequent growing disillusionment. Unfortunately, even the most thoughtful Pakistani is apt to first fall prey to feelings of righteous indignation, and then, and only then, to look at the evidence - by which time it is too late.

I haven't seen the discussion to this point, and this comment is to be seen in the mouth of an observer who has been focussed on what is happening on the ground, and has not really been looking at the discussions on PDF. You will forgive me for for any broad-brush strokes that I may have fallen prey to.

 

[Nilgiri]

I write this as someone who saw through Modi long before anyone in either country recognised him as a threat.

You are broadly right, but only broadly. Unfortunately, you display the usual Pakistani trend of taking an apocalyptic view of India's present and future, irrespective of when in time you take the view: it is invariant, and it doesn't matter whether you are looking at 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010, or, now, 2020. The expressions of concern that I hear now ring hollow against the background of the pitched hostility at all times in the past; it never let up, what difference does it make if it is couched in terms of the end of days now? It was always pitched like that, among 'green' bhakts, although there has always been a counter-narrative in Pakistan, a stream of thought that Indian liberals of my sort clung on to in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Coming to the details, if you have managed to hold on till now, the Modi formula was not and never will be universal. 'You can fool all the people some of the time....' and so on. It is visibly not universal even now. If you will not take the trouble of wading through the gallons of nausea-inducing garbage in the air-waves - and who can blame you? - you will never get to understand the limited support initially, or even that it was in fact limited, or the subsequent growing disillusionment. Unfortunately, even the most thoughtful Pakistani is apt to first fall prey to feelings of righteous indignation, and then, and only then, to look at the evidence - by which time it is too late.

I haven't seen the discussion to this point, and this comment is to be seen in the mouth of an observer who has been focussed on what is happening on the ground, and has not really been looking at the discussions on PDF. You will forgive me for for any broad-brush strokes that I may have fallen prey to.

There was an interesting disc (referencing history and the "psyche carryover/renewal" ) in the usual other place between cookie and I on this topic you can peruse bit later if you'd like too.