Bullet trains for India with Indo-China Strategic Economic Dialogue

[Abhishek_]

The whole point of 'meeting the needs of middle class' will be lost if the fare is even 65-70% of the air fare.

so you think only the elite travel in our budget airlines?? facepalm

 

[neehar]

This will not work in india. To build a nation wide high speed railway network and effectively operate it, you need:

1. a strong government that can propose and implement consistent policies over decades. india's political eco system will not allow this to happen. any real development could be easily hijacked by some so called "opposition" for political BS reasons.

2. a hardworking work force. indian workers are too lazy to make this happen. the only solution is to bring Chinese workers to build it as part of the contract. yet again - this willbe hijacked by some political morons backed by strong nationalism.

3. a reliable power grid. high speed rail need electricity, india doesn't have it and there is no plan to actual fix this.

4. a professional team to operate it. this is again impossible, you can figure this out by looking at india's current train networks. why it is so dangerous, dirty, out of date?

of course, I am not saying it is totally impossible, if india can merge into China and become a new province of China, then I am sure all these problems can be solved within 2-3 decades.

operating railways is not something new to india..we operate 4th largest railways in the world after u.s,russia ,china..and people from leading business schools including harvard came to india to learn about their sucess story.
as for ur province is concerned we'r not tibet. many tried but failed..nice trolling
The Railways’ success story, from turnaround man - Indian Express
Harvard, Wharton students quiz Lalu - Times Of India
Lalu Prasad Yadav scripts Indian Railways success story : NATION - India Today

 

[Skull and Bones]

so you think only the elite travel in our budget airlines?? facepalm

No, much of the passenger of budget airline is upper middle class, and some poor fellas like me.

 

[Abhishek_]

No, much of the passenger of budget airline is upper middle class, and some poor fellas like me.

you qualify as a poor fella???? I'm gonna stop arguing with you further.

 

[timetravel]

We do not need 300 KMs/hr.

for India 200 KMs/Hr is more then sufficient

A 200 KMs/hr financially profitable system is what I want rather then a 300 KMs/hr loss making system.

If I can cover 1000 Kms journey in 5 hours (with 200 KMs/hr) with AFFORDABLE fare that is far far better then covering 1000 KM in 3.3 Hours (with 300 KM/hr) but very EXPENSIVE fare.

India is 3000 kms from North to South. Time with 200 km speed = 15 hours, time speed with 300 KM speed = 10 hours. only 5 hours saving that too IF I GO ALL THE way from Kashmir to Kerela. So I am all for 200 KM/hr speed trains then for 300 KM/hr trains if the 200 KM/hr speed trains are 10 times more cheaper to install(capital cost) and operate (fare).

(Yes if u have 500+ KMs/hr speed trains as compared to 200 KM/hr then you do save significant time and then I might want that for India, but that too if they are financially viable)

Overall there is not so much time difference here.

the 300 KMs trains are like Shiny toys and good for ego boosting, but its not really the requirement or affordable or Finacially profitable venture. Also there is absolutely no MAJOR time saving or benefit of using 300 KM/hr trains over 200 KM/hr trains.India should not FALL for this MARKETING GIMMICK. India is not a 6/7 Trillion USD economy. We don't have money to waste on FINANCIALLY unsound projects that too just for ego boosts.

Any system should be first financially Sustainable and Profitable. Once India is 7-8 Trillion economy we can go for 400/500 KMs/hr trains (in later decades). But at that point of time also the projects should be thought of from Sustainability/Profitability standpoint. No point wasting money even if you have it.

disclaimer:
I am saying above assuming that the 300 KM/hr systems would cost 5/7 times more then 200 KM/hr systems to install and operate. I dont know whats exactly the cost difference between them taking into account the life time costs.

but if I am wrong and if the 300 KM/hr trains are as cheap or only fractionally expensive then 200 Km/hr trains (both installation and operation costs) then obviously go for 300 KM/hr.

 

[trinity]

Let me ask you alll something why would Bullet trains be more beneficial than Water treatment facilities or education resources development via Akash?

 

[Abhishek_]

We do not need 300 KMs/hr.

for India 200 KMs/Hr is more then sufficient

A 200 KMs/hr financially profitable system is what I want rather then a 300 KMs/hr loss making system.

If I can cover 1000 Kms journey in 5 hours (with 200 KMs/hr) with AFFORDABLE fare that is far far better then covering 1000 KM in 3.3 Hours (with 300 KM/hr) but very expensive fare.

Overall there is not so much time difference here.

the 300 KMs trains are like Shiny toys and good for ego boosting, but its not really the requirement or affordable or Finacially profitable venture. India should not FALL for this MARKETING GIMMICK. India is not a 6/7 Trillion USD economy. We don't have money to waste on FINANCIALLY unsound projects that too just for ego boosts.

^let the viability studies be completed. it would make things far clearer. no need to get your panties in a bunch

Let me ask you alll something why would Bullet trains be more beneficial than Water treatment facilities or education resources development via Akash?

why are you treating all of these projects as mutually exclusive?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Let me ask you alll something why would Bullet trains be more beneficial than Water treatment facilities or education resources development via Akash?

Not even remotely related, bro. Given our conditions, i'd rather invest in something profitable rather than sheer extravagance. We should pay more emphasis on industrial corridor connectivity.

And our existing infrastructure can support 150-160 kmph speed, one can increase it to 200-220 without much initial investment.

 

[trinity]

^let the viability studies be completed. it would make things far clearer. no need to get your panties in a bunch

why are you treating all of these projects as mutually exclusive?

I don;t think I am. I just pointing out when we are on a budget and have a longlist of priorities, wouldn;t it be wise to cover them in a certain order?

 

[OrionHunter]

Indo-China Strategic Economic Dialogue? That should read Sino-Indian Strategic Dialogue!

Indo-China encompassed areas that are now Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam. It exists no more!

Secondly, bullet trains in India at 300kmph? Now we gotta make sure that cows, goats and donkeys don't invade the tracks!!

And that's impossible in India. The only alternative is to construct high speed railway lines in the clouds!

 

[sexy gun]

It is Already underway-1200 km between Mumbai Delhi

Indian Railway locos WAP5 and WAP7 can hit 200 kmph by adding aerodynamic improvements
India is introducing EMUs to replace Shatabdis
India is also looking for introducing 220 kmph EMUs

A FACT :

Indian trains on current tracks cannot run at speeds more than 150KMph.. And that is the engg limit. Expect operational limit to be in 130s ..

We do not need 300 KMs/hr.

for India 200 KMs/Hr is more then sufficient

A 200 KMs/hr financially profitable system is what I want rather then a 300 KMs/hr loss making system.

If I can cover 1000 Kms journey in 5 hours (with 200 KMs/hr) with AFFORDABLE fare that is far far better then covering 1000 KM in 3.3 Hours (with 300 KM/hr) but very expensive fare.

Overall there is not so much time difference here.

the 300 KMs trains are like Shiny toys and good for ego boosting, but its not really the requirement or affordable or Finacially profitable venture. India should not FALL for this MARKETING GIMMICK. India is not a 6/7 Trillion USD economy. We don't have money to waste on FINANCIALLY unsound projects that too just for ego boosts.

Just a little bit of quantitative analytics here... for a train to cover 1000KM in 5 hours, it has to travel at nearly 300kmph, considering the time it will need to stop in intermediate stops.. !!

And those who are arguing "India doesn't need it is plain wrong". Look at prices of tickets during New Year or Holi or Summer Holidays, or Durga Puja, Diwali , the flight tickets' prices go over the roof !!

There are many people who are willing to pay 3000 per ticket for a 3rd AC class travel, if the train can reach Delhi from Lets say bangalore in about 15 hours...

Or, From Delhi to Kolkata in say around 10 hours !!

Heck, Delhi to Mumbai will be a over night journey which to me is TOTALLY worth it.

 

[Abhishek_]

I don;t think I am. I just pointing out when we are on a budget and have a longlist of priorities, wouldn;t it be wise to cover them in a certain order?

you realize we're not building this tomorrow. we aren't even building this for certain. only viability studies are being carried out for now.
are you aware when (what year) the viability studies for delhi metro were done? and when did the first delhi metro begin?

 

[sexy gun]

you realize we're not building this tomorrow. we aren't even building this for certain. only viability studies are being carried out for now.
are you aware when (what year) the viability studies for delhi metro were done? and when did the first delhi metro begin?

NOPES !!

 

[trinity]

Not even remotely related, bro. Given our conditions, i'd rather invest in something profitable rather than sheer extravagance. We should pay more emphasis on industrial corridor connectivity.

And our existing infrastructure can support 150-160 kmph speed, one can increase it to 200-220 without much initial investment.

Don;t you guys see how water treatment/sewage/santitation can be profitable? It won;t make you rich but it if it can operate without a loss it should be considered. Drinking water is not a luxury but a necessity. Education may not be profitable yet but it pay off in the end don;t you think? I think if we build bullet trains, we will be ignoring key fundamental building blocks for India;s future.


And our existing infrastructure can support 150-160 kmph speed, one can increase it to 200-220 without much initial investment.


I can agree to that. My only issue is tech maturity, security/safety and locaton. Chennai, Bangalore, and Kochi could use this also.

 

[Abhishek_]

^we have yet to hear an argument from you, why the feasibility studies are such a bad thing?