Bruce Riedel: Military Aid is bribe to Pakistan Army

[waz]

@waz @SQ8 Damn ... its free for all against the Pak army leadership on the forum...

Well they backed crooks and now here is the fallout.

 

[SQ8]

Don't know about "Indians", my views are annoyingly consistent. I am just amused that even the PDF administration is split among political lines. @SQ8

I don’t think it’s anymore about political lines - there was a purpose to PDF - Put the positive for Pakistan no matter what. However, I don’t think it’s beneficial anymore for Pakistan to do that - because by doing that you are only hiding the obvious faults. It’s not like positives don’t exists but the over system needs to be exposed (and hopefully can no longer hide its fallacies).

There has ALWAYS been a mentality difference between Indians and Pakistanis - internally, Indians would tear their leaders apart no matter what and the result would show up in the polls and impact change on the system - externally it was always spin doctoring to show everything is awesome using everything from whataboutism to outright lying.

With Pakistanis, everyone hated everything about it internally but because they cannot generally change anything at the polls either many would be open externally as well but still had a bit of misguided patriotism to try and keep it positive. With the recent events it has dawned on many that even that helps keep the rotten system intact - so why do it?

 

[VCheng]

there was a purpose to PDF - Put the positive for Pakistan no matter what. However, I don’t think it’s beneficial anymore for Pakistan to do that - because by doing that you are only hiding the obvious faults. It’s not like positives don’t exists but the over system needs to be exposed (and hopefully can no longer hide its fallacies).

That is exactly what I have been saying all along!

Glad to see that reality has finally made itself felt, as it always does. I did try my best, though.

 

[SQ8]

That is exactly what I have been saying all along!

Glad to see that reality has finally made itself felt, as it always does. I did try my best, though.

It is always good to contextualize on everything - we aren’t hiding the corruption but that doesn’t mean good people aren’t making strides in and out of uniform. Where Hoodboy is right that the education system is trash - there is also people coming up with programs like Sehat Kahani - those people need to be highlighted and be the ones brought up as examples.

If ALL we do is negativity then its just a ranting extreme - and we see where extremes lead.. drag exotic shows for kindergartners or Jan 6th. Except this is Pakistan and it will be much much worse(and we can see the teasers to it)

 

[Olympus81]

The Army had always been a gun for hire of sorts. The CSF during the Musharraf era and then an X amount of $ for every drone strikes down Zardari’s and Nawaz’s era.

That source of revenue dried up eventually. And then IK absolutely not shut out any openings.

One would be naive to deny that.

 

[VCheng]

It is always good to contextualize on everything - we aren’t hiding the corruption but that doesn’t mean good people aren’t making strides in and out of uniform. Where Hoodboy is right that the education system is trash - there is also people coming up with programs like Sehat Kahani - those people need to be highlighted and be the ones brought up as examples.

If ALL we do is negativity then its just a ranting extreme - and we see where extremes lead.. drag exotic shows for kindergartners or Jan 6th. Except this is Pakistan and it will be much much worse(and we can see the teasers to it)

Please do consider the possibility that what seemed like heresy when I joined is now accepted fact, and that what you are calling ranting now may yet turn out to be true. It may take another few years to take that next step towards realizing that I may just have been right all along. It's okay. I can wait.

 

[MilSpec]

Well they backed crooks and now here is the fallout.

They also backed Imran Khan at one point.

I don’t think it’s anymore about political lines - there was a purpose to PDF - Put the positive for Pakistan no matter what. However, I don’t think it’s beneficial anymore for Pakistan to do that - because by doing that you are only hiding the obvious faults. It’s not like positives don’t exists but the over system needs to be exposed (and hopefully can no longer hide its fallacies).

Except, this is not the first instance that the Military has intervened to change the administration. It's the norm for Pakistan, not the exception, so I am just curious about what broke the camel's back.

There has ALWAYS been a mentality difference between Indians and Pakistanis - internally, Indians would tear their leaders apart no matter what and the result would show up in the polls and impact change on the system - externally it was always spin doctoring to show everything is awesome using everything from whataboutism to outright lying.

the External bit is an oversimplification of India's consistent foreign policy which is repeated by most common Internet Indians. Also not to forget the most rabid Anti Indian folks are Indians. Just look at the most vocal Indian leftist woke morons in the west.

With Pakistanis, everyone hated everything about it internally but because they cannot generally change anything at the polls either many would be open externally as well but still had a bit of misguided patriotism to try and keep it positive. With the recent events it has dawned on many that even that helps keep the rotten system intact - so why do it?

Just a thought, has anyone considered that democracy might not be the best solution for Pakistan's problems? Maybe Pakistan's inherent governance system was for so long curated for Military systems, it might not have the flexibility to absorb the chaos inherent to a democratic setup. (Like a no-confidence motion to remove coalition governments )

 

[SQ8]

Please do consider the possibility that what seemed like heresy when I joined is now accepted fact, and that what you are calling ranting now may yet turn out to be true. It may take another few years to take that next step towards realizing that I may just have been right all along. It's okay. I can wait.

Might - but I am a firm believer of “Think again” now so nothing is “fact” or concrete. I would suggest you do the same https://adamgrant.net/book/think-again/

 

[VCheng]

Might - but I am a firm believer of “Think again” now so nothing is “fact” or concrete. I would suggest you do the same https://adamgrant.net/book/think-again/

I will get that after I finish my current book. Situations in flux require re-evaluation of course, but certain factors remain constant too. Just a thought.

The Army in Pakistan is one of those constants, to remain on topic.

 

[BamsiBey]

in afghan war . Total EU NATO USA aid may be 50bn$ . Can ind

Probably far less. Pakistan got nothing in return. No major infrastructure or developments.

They also backed Imran Khan at one point.

They never backed imran khan during his tenure. He couldn't even bring new policies to reform punjab police force or anything foreign. Bajwa kept interfering in every move.

They only supported Imran because there was no other option left. They couldn't trust nawaz or zardari anymore, as they back stabbed the military few times and couldn't be trusted.

 

[Sayfullah]

50 lakh people were killed during independence in 1947 and we fought multiple wars with india for protecting independence but blind and deaf are incapable of recognizing sacrifices of our ancestors

This doesn’t prove Pakistan got independence.
British india was the crown jewel in British empire. Would anyone give up their most valine possession without a fight?
The people killed during partition or indo Pak wars didn’t harm British in any way.
Pakistan a hybrid colony.
IMF, FATF, military Aid, our politician in UK, all these are proof Pakistan is a hybrid colony.
You talk about independence. Can Pakistan truly make a decision on its own independently? Even the wars you talk about kargil war was ended while Pakistan was winning because colonial masters dictated Pakistan to end it. Pakistan is NOT independent. It needs American approval to buy Russian oil. What is independent of Pakistan is everything has to come with American and British approval?

 

[Pakistan001]

This doesn’t prove Pakistan got independence.
British india was the crown jewel in British empire. Would anyone give up their most valine possession without a fight?
The people killed during partition or indo Pak wars didn’t harm British in any way.
Pakistan a hybrid colony.
IMF, FATF, military Aid, our politician in UK, all these are proof Pakistan is a hybrid colony.
You talk about independence. Can Pakistan truly make a decision on its own independently? Even the wars you talk about kargil war was ended while Pakistan was winning because colonial masters dictated Pakistan to end it. Pakistan is NOT independent. It needs American approval to buy Russian oil. What is independent of Pakistan is everything has to come with American and British approval?

In today world none of country is totally independent, Western countries are also controlled by zionists bankers and capitalists and citizens in these countries cannot go beyond a certain limit. Similar is case with rest of world. Establishment and politicians come from public. Majority of our public want to immigrate to western countries and is not ready to face hardships as a result of possible effects of completely moving out of western influence. Russia not offer us oil against Pakistan rupee but demands dollars or gold so we cannot benefit from them if not have economy which generates dollars or foreign reserves without depending on western countries .Our exports are too little to influence world economy if they ban our products unlike russia, china and india

 

[Sugarcane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1634119051948482560

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633866486367526913

 

[313ghazi]

Admittedly, I'm an Imran Khan supporter however, I know for a fact that if the current Army leadership were to enter into the parliament house and take over and put the scum of PDM behind bars, all those barking against the army on these pages will suddenly see them as their darlings.
Don't the Americans give military aid to the likes of Israel, Japan, South Korea and to West Germany in the past to do its dirty laundry but Pakistan being a Muslim country and the only nuclear Muslim power and not always playing the ball will obviously be mentioned without much affection. And what to say about the Pakistanis who are always ready to jump on the band wagon.

Country needs more than candy now.

We need them to stay in thier barracks and on the battlefield.

 

[Sugarcane]