Breaking: Three Indian Soldiers killed on LOC

[HAIDER]

PA response rate is very quick, moment they strike Pak population next minute PA destroy Indian post... lolz.. An excellent strategy to push back Indian forces. @HRK what you think ?

 

[Hellfire]

Looking at the LOC and Kashmir crisis as a symptom, what do you think is the root cause of the disease afflicting the mindset of planners on both sides of the Radcliffe line.

My view is slightly 'utopian'.

I think that both of us can safely assume that the biggest issue remains the ideology of hate that was a direct result of British machinations undertaken to ensure a pre-eminence in Indian sub-continent which, unfortunately, either side is hard pressed to let go of, till date. The historical baggage carried by both the nations is something that neither side is willing to let go of.

It does not help, that Pakistan being an 'ideological' state, is being promoted as such. Neither does it help, that the social media and media in general today, continues to play the bogey up, in order to undermine a change in paradigm.

If you look at the parallels between the history of India and China, you will find that the concept of a nation for both, has been around for centuries (unlike the credit being given to the Europeans under Cardinal AP Richelieu to have ushered in the same) , irrespective of the invasions/subjugations/anarchy/various stages of internal strife.

The most stark difference between the two, however, is the concept of the nation as existential in continuum by itself. Whereas in the latter's case, the concept of a nation never dissolved, irrespective of the loss of territories and division of nation (example Sinkiang and Tibet to Czarist Russia and Formosa {Taiwan} till present date) along ideological lines/due to political/military compulsions, in Indian case, not only two nations were created of one people, but the fact remains that the people of one nation take pride in denouncing the existence of a unitary nation, and perpetuating the concept that India as a nation was never there. But championing the existence of China at the same time as one nation, a nation which has similar cases of dissonance in it's history.

How do you subjugate a nation? By breaking them off from their own origins, and making them believe an alternate history contrary to the facts, thereby allowing an alternative narrative to not only take roots, but prosper over generations.

Go through this forum, you will find the same being done. Generations of same people, divided by a rapacious ideology perpetuated by a Western power for it's own reasons, continuing in the same process. A self fuelled hatred?

I am sure you may be aware of the fact that India accounted for 23% of World's GDP at the time of Aurangzeb's rule. Historical facts referred to the nation as India. But look at the perversion of the history, with people loathe to acknowledge themselves as being of common origin and roots. In such a case, where the essence of existence has transformed to the hatred of other, I am sure that difficulties remain abundant in reconciliation.

What we are told here is that India has always been a hegemon and would not take a moment extra if presented with the opportunity to do fatal harm to Pakistan.

Hence, my quip of the 'perpetuation of the ideological state'. What most forget is that in either nations, a majority exists and so does a minority.

There is a thread on this forum, where we have discussed the follies of Gandhi in introducing religion onto the national movement (Khilafat) and Jinnah's attempts to oppose it. What does that indicate? That yes, the so called champion of two nation theory (MA Jinnah) was himself opposed to having two nations out of an independent India.

I am sure that if you were to take a dispassionate view of the history, that shall be pretty hard to justify, even in the context of East Pakistan, as the Pakistanis themselves lost East Pakistan for political reasons, the Indian military intervention just speeded the process.

Two predators can never cohabit the same hunting ground after all (or may be one is predator and other its prey). I guess the narrative on your side (or at least the one that has been build and sold recently) is that we have fundos in our higher ups and they can never think beyond preparing for a certain war of eschatological dimension that is yet to come.

It is not a narrative, the bold part. It is the result of the policies followed under the rule of Zia. You have your own historical references abound which point to the fact that the 'Islamisation' of both Primary and Secondary education and higher education in early 1980s was deliberately undertaken in the society. That, coupled to the introduction of 'religious learning' for the indoctrination of the Afghans to undertake a 'jihad' in Afghanistan, obviously had the repercussions on your society. The same continued to support the cause in J&K, actually did the Pakistani society in. The results are there today, for all to see.

It is not the higher ups who are the issue, it is the common masses who become the issue. The higher ups, the political hierarchy, or in Pakistan's case, where the army rules supreme, are more keen on ensuring their own supremacy. Their perks and privileges must continue, and the narrative must be managed to ensure that.

This remains a crucial stumbling block even in Kashmir valley, where the nexus of the politicians-bureaucrats-separatists have ensured that the vast majority is suffering.

Factually if one was to take a dispassionate view of situation on the ground, apart from the occasional rabble rousers, no one really cares an iota if Jammu & Kashmir was also split as it is and LC was made into an IB. That would, in fact, go a long way in ensuring freer borders and more economic integration of both the nations and better economic prospects as also prosperity.

Also in your personal opinion what could be an amicable solution to this festering problem which has kept us back (definitely Pakistan) from realizing our true potential and developing as two modern nations that are respected globally.

As per GoI it is withdrawal from territories of the state of Jammu and Kashmir occupied by Pakistan. As per GoP reverse.

My solution? Integrate the territories already held by either side. And after a gap of few years, begin a process of integration of the economies as there is lot that both nations can offer each other. Heck, this region was accounting for almost 1/4th of GDP of the world at a time the Europeans did not even know the basic of hygiene and sanitation.

And keep the Chinese out.