Breaking: Search Operation at 90

[Gazi]

army courts will also eliminate terrorists working under the shelter of any political party// to be convicted than executed// ab agar tum samhajtay ho k mqm ka hi safaya ho jaey ga tu mayn kia karon ....

ATC cant even defend their JITs in front of them and you think something like that would happened anytime soon????

bas ai hi tha baki sab theek hay............lagay raho

Yahan Hazaroon ki baat hu rahi hai aur apkay pass Aik hai woh bhi 17 saal purana manjan. Abhi Recent mai tu Aamir Khan Reha huwa hai phir MQM k kai loog reha hu chukay hain Nine Zero ki Raid k.

 

[Secur]

No I want people to realize that this is not the same army that created the MQM nor is it the same army that led a crackdown against them and that there is always the other side of the story; I'm sure the relatives of those police officers who were systematically hunted down and eliminated will attest to that as would those who were involved in this crackdown from an operational perspective.

To understand that the only reason the People's Aman Committee, the Layari Gangsters, the Sunni Tehreek and the TTP aren't claiming that a Media Trial or a Witch-hunt is being instigated against them is because that they have neither a well rehearsed and very well established media cell that plays the Muhajir Card at the drop of a hat !

To accept that statements criticizing the Army/the Rangers even by abusing them outright is one thing but advocating Violence against State Institutions is something completely different which is precisely why whereas Khawaja Asif will escape with an admonition, reduced privileges (remember the passing out parade) and criticism....Altaf will not !

And above all to finally learn to appreciate that in a dysfunctional country fraught with a myriad challenges on every single level...everyone has grievances against everyone else.

How does that work? You are talking about the common people, they aren't that rational anywhere ever. Where's your realism? There is a second side to the story and I agreed with you before I even posted this excerpt and started this argument. You want me to say that MQM was guilty as charged and I will say yes it was. But the rest weren't, yet excesses were committed against them for no reason, by the state. However, only if the military instead of remaining intoxicated in their unchallenged power could have gone to the trouble of court-martialing all those involved in the barbarism, the results would have been different. An apology, a single statement showing remorse would have gone a long way in alleviating the grievances. But instead, most of you will rather pretend that the operation didn't happen in the first place or if it happened, it was fair and there were nothing wrong with it than admit the reality so deep inside the issue remains unresolved, mere denial (as is the norm with our countrymen on everything) doesn't help. But then again, how many military men detailed in Hamood-ur-Rehman for crimes against Bengalis were punished to the full extent of the law?

Armstrong, the operation for its major part is still directed on MQM and no one else. PPP is safe and so is ANP. What message are they giving to anyone by raiding 90 and sparing all others? Disgustingly, they have signed a deal with Zardari in return for extending their stay in the city. The delaying in the signing of the bill got Mr ten percent an excellent deal apparently, as evident by his "message of solidarity and support" to the troops today. Yes, they run a constant propaganda but that works for many reasons, even the most well-educated (education rates are comparatively high here) can see twenty-thirty percent of that happening in the real world. I will speak my mind then. A PPP leader once said how he planned to break the state when BB was sent packing to the high heavens. The military issued no statement and no politician even cared. The treatment isn't fair or equal. Everyone having grievances doesn't make them all - untrue.

 

[SQ8]

hello @Oscar just checking out if you can still reply

Regarding what?

 

[Secur]

Abusing the Army vs Incitement to Violence against those engaged in an Operation against you !

Keep things in perspective.

And Munawwar Hasan and Fazlur Rehman said anything better if that is the criteria for the leadership to take notice?

What was that part about spreading "Qatal fi sabillah" in Pakistan and Soldiers fighting the Taliban being not martyrs or actually extending support to the psychopaths? That didn't elicit a response similar to AH. Why is he such a special case? I have heard nationalists speak things while being sober against army, other races and even the country which AH even whilst awfully drunk can't match. Yet I am yet to see ISPR in action over that. What is the problem then there?

 

[SQ8]

What sense of fu**ing alienation. You're the most prosperous and most wealthiest ethnic community in Pakistan. If there should be any sense of alienation it should be felt by other Ethnic Communities, not Urdu Speaking.

Not exactly anymore, but at the same time.. they have always been part and participle of the very dictatorships led by the military. The reason lies with education more than ethnicity, the community is the only one that would pose a challenge to the military on an intellectual level... hence the military prefers to be tight with them.
As the rest caught up, the community felt "alienated".

And Munawwar Hasan and Fazlur Rehman said anything better if that is the criteria for the leadership to take notice?

What was that part about spreading "Qatal fi sabillah" in Pakistan and Soldiers fighting the Taliban being not martyrs or actually extending support to the psychopaths? That didn't elicit a response similar to AH. Why is he such a special case? I have heard nationalists speak things while being sober against army, other races and even the country which AH even whilst awfully drunk can't match. Yet I am yet to see ISPR in action over that. What is the problem then there?

You are comparing the Mullahs for whom this façade of hatred is just temporary as most Local ethnic inhabitants of Pakistan would hug their supposed stairways to heaven given any excuse to "forgive" them.. to a person who is a non religious thug that belongs to a community that the various "local" cultures would not think a second before calling them Indian. Good luck.

 

[Armstrong]

How does that work? You are talking about the common people, they aren't that rational anywhere ever. Where's your realism? There is a second side to the story and I agreed with you before I even posted this excerpt and started this argument. You want me to say that MQM was guilty as charged and I will say yes it was. But the rest weren't, yet excesses were committed against them for no reason, by the state. However, only if the military instead of remaining intoxicated in their unchallenged power could have gone to the trouble
of court-martialing all those involved in the barbarism, the results would have been different.
An apology, a single statement showing remorse would have gone a long way in alleviating the grievances. But instead, most of you will rather pretend that the operation didn't happen in the first place or if it happened, it was fair and there were nothing wrong with it than admit the reality so deep inside the issue remains unresolved, mere denial (as is the norm with our countrymen on everything) doesn't help. But then again, how many military men detailed in Hamood-ur-Rehman for crimes against Bengalis were punished to the full extent of the law?

They are the single most educated group in Pakistan - My realism gets somewhat tempered by that fact.

Of course the rest may have been - That is a very real possibility ! But when has anyone apologized for anything in Pakistan or have admitted, of their own volition, that they were wrong ?

I am not defending the State here...I am simply trying to highlight whats happening here - A murderer on being apprehended by the authorities is saying why weren't Murderers A, B and C also locked up by the Police and is all the while screaming discrimination at the top of his lungs - That is a fallacious argument.

Armstrong, the operation for its major part is still directed on MQM and no one else. PPP is safe and so is ANP. What message are they giving to anyone by raiding 90 and sparing all others? Disgustingly, they have signed a deal with Zardari in return for extending their stay in the city. The delaying in the signing of the bill got Mr ten percent an excellent deal apparently, as evident by his "message of solidarity and support" to the troops today. Yes, they run a constant propaganda but that works for many reasons, even the most well-educated (education rates are comparatively high here) can see twenty-thirty percent of that happening in the real world. I will speak my mind then. A PPP leader once said how he planned to break the state when BB was sent packing to the high heavens. The military issued no statement and no politician even cared. The treatment isn't fair or equal. Everyone having grievances doesn't make them all - untrue.

I don't know how that conclusion is reached nor am I apprised of any 'deal' that Zardari signed with them. The figures that I've seen being quoted in the media paint a completely different picture.

And you have to understand that a single PPP leader saying something once upon a time (however condemnable...PPP came with that Pakistan Khappay thing soon after) is not entirely the same thing as the Incitements to Violence being meted out by the Bhai on a weekly basis !

And Munawwar Hasan and Fazlur Rehman said anything better if that is the criteria for the leadership to take notice?

What was that part about spreading "Qatal fi sabillah" in Pakistan and Soldiers fighting the Taliban being not martyrs or actually extending support to the psychopaths? That didn't elicit a response similar to AH. Why is he such a special case? I have heard nationalists speak things while being sober against army, other races and even the country which AH even whilst awfully drunk can't match. Yet I am yet to see ISPR in action over that. What is the problem then there?

Munawwar Hasan's 'not martyrs' comment drew ire from all quarters, including the Army, as did Fazlu's 'martyr' comment - I dunno what you're talking about ? And lets not forget that Munawar Hasan himself is an Urdu Speaker so if there was some biased etched in the ISPR's psyche here it would've shown in that case too.

Despicable as it maybe how is that the same thing as an incitement to violence ?

And many of those Nationalists have been at the receiving end of detentions and what not throughout the '60s and the '70s - One of them ended up dead a few years ago which started this whole Baluchistan Insurgency mess !

Kiya baateiin kar rahaa haiii tu ?

 

[mr.robot]

How does that work? You are talking about the common people, they aren't that rational anywhere ever. Where's your realism? There is a second side to the story and I agreed with you before I even posted this excerpt and started this argument. You want me to say that MQM was guilty as charged and I will say yes it was. But the rest weren't, yet excesses were committed against them for no reason, by the state. However, only if the military instead of remaining intoxicated in their unchallenged power could have gone to the trouble of court-martialing all those involved in the barbarism, the results would have been different. An apology, a single statement showing remorse would have gone a long way in alleviating the grievances. But instead, most of you will rather pretend that the operation didn't happen in the first place or if it happened, it was fair and there were nothing wrong with it than admit the reality so deep inside the issue remains unresolved, mere denial (as is the norm with our countrymen on everything) doesn't help. But then again, how many military men detailed in Hamood-ur-Rehman for crimes against Bengalis were punished to the full extent of the law?

Armstrong, the operation for its major part is still directed on MQM and no one else. PPP is safe and so is ANP. What message are they giving to anyone by raiding 90 and sparing all others? Disgustingly, they have signed a deal with Zardari in return for extending their stay in the city. The delaying in the signing of the bill got Mr ten percent an excellent deal apparently, as evident by his "message of solidarity and support" to the troops today. Yes, they run a constant propaganda but that works for many reasons, even the most well-educated (education rates are comparatively high here) can see twenty-thirty percent of that happening in the real world. I will speak my mind then. A PPP leader once said how he planned to break the state when BB was sent packing to the high heavens. The military issued no statement and no politician even cared. The treatment isn't fair or equal. Everyone having grievances doesn't make them all - untrue.

They are the single most educated group in Pakistan - My realism gets somewhat tempered by that fact.

Of course the rest may have been - That is a very real possibility ! But when has anyone apologized for anything in Pakistan or have admitted, of their own volition, that they were wrong ?

I am not defending the State here...I am simply trying to highlight whats happening here - A murderer on being apprehended by the authorities is saying why weren't Murderers A, B and C also locked up by the Police and is all the while screaming discrimination at the top of his lungs - That is a fallacious argument.



I don't know how that conclusion is reached nor am I apprised of any 'deal' that Zardari signed with them. The figures that I've seen being quoted in the media paint a completely different picture.

And you have to understand that a single PPP leader saying something once upon a time (however condemnable...PPP came with that Pakistan Khappay thing soon after) is not entirely the same thing as the Incitements to Violence being meted out by the Bhai on a weekly basis !



Munawwar Hasan's 'not martyrs' comment drew ire from all quarters, including the Army, as did Fazlu's 'martyr' comment - I dunno what you're talking about ? And lets not forget that Munawar Hasan himself is an Urdu Speaker so if there was some biased etched in the ISPR's psyche here it would've shown in that case too.

Despicable as it maybe how is that the same thing as an incitement to violence ?

And many of those Nationalists have been at the receiving end of detentions and what not throughout the '60s and the '70s - One of them ended up dead a few years ago which started this whole Baluchistan Insurgency mess !

Kiya baateiin kar rahaa haiii tu ?

Day 361.... still waiting an official response on Zardari's statement against Military. Still waiting rangers to pick up his cronies. Rather he is allowed to rest in Dubai and a dirty smell of deal like N.R.O is all over. I don't like MQM but the sense of alienation is very much justified here in my opinion.

 

[Secur]

They are the single most educated group in Pakistan - My realism gets somewhat tempered by that fact.

Of course the rest may have been - That is a very real possibility ! But when has anyone apologized for anything in Pakistan or have admitted, of their own volition, that they were wrong ?

I am not defending the State here...I am simply trying to highlight whats happening here - A murderer on being apprehended by the authorities is saying why weren't Murderers A, B and C also locked up by the Police and is all the while screaming discrimination at the top of his lungs - That is a fallacious argument.

OK. So continue with the same policy of third degree torture, illegal detentions, arrest by non uniformed LEA, throw them on some outskirts of the city when dead and expect the residents to change their mind? What do you think people feel when the rangers personnel are cursing a particular group during their raids? Why does your realism not factor in that?

And apparently, that hasn't done wonders for this country as seen by the situation. But since the Pakistanis revere the infallible military and raise its status to a cult personality level, maybe they should have started this trend. After all, according to most, the PA cant ever go wrong. Why not take responsibility of their blunders, the institution with the most ones in the country's history? Bangladesh, creation of Taliban/Mujaheddin, interference in politics, spreading extremism and radicalization in the society, working closely with sectarians and Islamo-facists, Operation Clean-up/Blue fox. Where the hell does it end?

So are all others driving a distinction between different traitors and giving ultimate power to military without any accountability and checks/balances. But I do think saying "If murderer A is being sentenced to death penalty then the same treatment should be meted out to murderer B". This is understandable and non fallacious now, is it?

 

[Armstrong]

OK. So continue with the same policy of third degree torture, illegal detentions, arrest by non uniformed LEA, throw them on some outskirts of the city when dead and expect the residents to change their mind? What do you think people feel when the rangers personnel are cursing a particular group during their raids? Why does your realism not factor in that?

And apparently, that hasn't done wonders for this country as seen by the situation. But since the Pakistanis revere the infallible military and raise its status to a cult personality level, maybe they should have started this trend. After all, according to most, the PA cant ever go wrong. Why not take responsibility of their blunders, the institution with the most ones in the country's history? Bangladesh, creation of Taliban/Mujaheddin, interference in politics, spreading extremism and radicalization in the society, working closely with sectarians and Islamo-facists, Operation Clean-up/Blue fox. Where the hell does it end?

So are all others driving a distinction between different traitors and giving ultimate power to military without any accountability and checks/balances. But I do think saying "If murderer A is being sentenced to death penalty then the same treatment should be meted out to murderer B". This is understandable and non fallacious now, is it?

We're going in circles now and perhaps when you're a little less emotional we can revisit this topic again so that this conversation doesn't continue to degenerate into red herrings, buzz-words or a gross oversimplification of things !

 

[Secur]

I don't know how that conclusion is reached nor am I apprised of any 'deal' that Zardari signed with them. The figures that I've seen being quoted in the media paint a completely different picture.

And you have to understand that a single PPP leader saying something once upon a time (however condemnable...PPP came with that Pakistan Khappay thing soon after) is not entirely the same thing as the Incitements to Violence being meted out by the Bhai on a weekly basis !

This is simple politics. Zardari felt some heat and gave that statement, then the bill granting Rangers the authority to operate here expired and PPP was reluctant to sign it. But then, Core Commander-Karachi met with Bilawal and took him in confidence. The result: The PPP chief speaking in ardent support to the troops fighting against terrorists, an assurance of co-operation and emphasis on signing the " watered down revised" extension as soon as possible.

It doesn't matter, a lot of politicians have said far more ridiculous things in the past and got away with it. Why do you insist in distinguishing or drawing a line for whats treacherous? And no. AH doesn't give weekly sermons to incite violence, that was a recent occurrence and was condemned at its first instance.

Munawwar Hasan's 'not martyrs' comment drew ire from all quarters, including the Army, as did Fazlu's 'martyr' comment - I dunno what you're talking about ?

Despicable as it maybe how is that the same thing as an incitement to violence ?

And many of those Nationalists have been at the receiving end of detentions and what not throughout the '60s and the '70s - One of them ended up dead a few years ago which started this whole Baluchistan Insurgency mess !

Kiya baateiin kar rahaa haiii tu ?

Oh, I remember the "politeness" of the ire and then I remember the harshness in case of AH. Tell me what should I derive from it? That the son of the soil is to be treated differently than some "bharti agents".

Yes it does, the names I mentioned were literally in bed with the psychopaths responsible for death of 60K Pakistanis, yet the support continued, attempts to demoralize soldiers and opposition to the military action intensified. That is somehow better, you think?

Is it the case today? No, they are roaming around wild with all sorts of weird analogies and reasoning and absurd logic as to why their blood is purer! Specially true for Sindh.

We're going in circles now and perhaps when you're a little less emotional we can revisit this topic again so that this conversation doesn't continue to degenerate into red herrings, buzz-words or a gross oversimplification of things !

Just comparing a little past with the present. If it weren't banned, I may have posted some pictures from Operation Cleanup and the latest iteration of it. I am not exactly emotional at the moment, this will be my answer whenever you approach this topic. The blunders of the military are many and severely damaging to the country, prying eyes from it isn't doing us any good. Too many things have gone wrong and are in the process of doing so and not a single entity in this country has learned anything.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

this is the same Attitude , why we have lost Bangladesh
and more than 50K mighty army surrender with their pants down ...
and you get a Positive rating for this ... @Atanz please enlighten us what is special about this cheap comment that deserve a + rating from you ?? you are like the other TT's , jo MQM ko jitni bari gali de ga , use utni zaida rating milay gi ?



weapon stock ? from where ?

Karachi clean up.. mostly our beloved bhatta khors n target killers - gangsters.

 

[Shot-Caller]

well i didn't know that MQM haters can get +rating , or even become TT"s , pehle pata hota tu I shapat , mai bhi MQM ko full maa behn ke galiyan likhta
yaar yeh Punjabi waise hote bare mazedaar hai in se interaction humesha funny raha hai ... most TT mujhe Punjabi ho lagte hai .. no wonder if they change the name of Forum from PDF to DDF , ( dagga Defense Forum )

Tujay kyu nei utha kay lay gi rangers.

 

[Gazi]

Karachi clean up.. mostly our beloved bhatta khors n target killers - gangsters.

They are trying to Arrest so called Bhatta Khor and Gangster on Charges of Hate Speech. Am I missing something???

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

They are trying to Arrest so called Bhatta Khor and Gangster on Charges of Hate Speech. Am I missing something???

I doubt Rangers arrested anybody over hate speech or incitement ... can you prove your claim?

Coz till now Rangers have been going afters the creatures mentioned above.

 

[Gazi]

I doubt Rangers arrested anybody over hate speech or incitement ... can you prove your claim?

Coz till now Rangers have been going afters the creatures mentioned above.

https://twitter.com/x/status/621859502258823169

https://twitter.com/x/status/621862532588945408