BREAKING NEWS: LAL MASJID

[KashifAsrar]

At the time of creation of pakistan jamate-islami was against it.they didnt want to seprate.
And Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah wanted a secular pakistan.

http://imageshack.us

Twisting here dear
Pakistan was made in the name of religion. Otherwise India would not have broken like it did! Do I remind you of the first speech of Muhammed Ali Jinnah after he became the head of the state!
Kashif

 

[Always Neutral]

Not if I get there first...they're mine!

On a lighter side. Adux and Neo having the same views and a comman enemy on their crosshair! what a miracle the mullahs of Lal Masjid have performed. Regards to you both.

 

[Always Neutral]

I pray that there is no bloodshed. Don't want to see any more loss of Pakistani lives.

Dear Blain,

Todays headlines show that prayers and Allah / God don't prevent such affairs (killing of Pakistanis), its only the will and resolve of the comman people who can force governments and clerics to stop playing politics over the dead bodies of the innocent.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

Well that's a good question Bull, I mean who has the resolve to go around and reform all these madrassa's? This has to be a collective effort with the citizens and the government of the country. The citezens and those who sent their children should be more involved with what is being taught. Instead of being kept in the dark and isolated from their childerns education. The government itself should look into ways to reform. At the end of the day Guts/courge has to be mustered up from somewhere to prevent LAl Masjid take 2. Otherwise being too lenient and not taking action will just cause more carnage later. On the note of how exactly the madrassah's should and can be changed, well thats a whole new discussion in itself isn't it?
Bottom line is not closing down but reforming.

Dear Chrome,

Your suggestions are very noble but in the poor countryside from where most of these students come the parents just manage make end meet after 15 hour workday. Where will they get the time to think about the kind of education their children are undergoing.

Reforms are urgently required by the Madrassas but since Pakistan is not yet self sufficient these funds will come from Saudi or USA and will have to many strings attached. The mullahs of these madrassas will also resist tooth and nail the loss of their powers.

Anyway on a positive note I hope what you predict comes true.

Best Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

Well that is your opinion. Islam and Muslims will not go the way of Christianity. This is just a fact. We can not be reformed to take Islam out of our lives. Turkey is by no means over the issue of separation of state and religion. Its just unnatural to Islam (and at one point to Christianity too).

Downward spiral is something that can be fixed, changing the creed is an altogether different impossibility (at least in Islam and for Muslims). What is 300-400 years of suffering in the life of a nation? I think this downward spiral is driving the new and upcoming generation of Muslims towards better things. I am nothing but optimistic for Islam and Muslims.

Dear Blain,

Would appreciate your frank views on the below since you post quite articlulate views

1. Is Islam supreme or is the country's interest supreme when there is a conflict of interest between the two ? For Eg getting rid of militants from Lal Masjid is good for Pakistan but destroying the Lal Masjid to achieve it will be Un-islamic. I have no doubt that Lal Masjid has been badly damaged in the attack though the Govt. will play it down.

2. What should a Pakistani soldier do when attacking a religious place like Lal Masjid as he will be attacking a place of Allah but at the same time the people inside have killed his beloved CO?

Regards

 

[bhangra12345]

Dear Blain,

Would appreciate your frank views on the below since you post quite articlulate views

1. Is Islam supreme or is the country's interest supreme when there is a conflict of interest between the two ? For Eg getting rid of militants from Lal Masjid is good for Pakistan but destroying the Lal Masjid to achieve it will be Un-islamic. I have no doubt that Lal Masjid has been badly damaged in the attack though the Govt. will play it down.

2. What should a Pakistani soldier do when attacking a religious place like Lal Masjid as he will be attacking a place of Allah but at the same time the people inside have killed his beloved CO?

Regards

I guess the answer to these questions will decide the future of Pakistan

 

[BATMAN]

I guess the answer to these questions will decide the future of Pakistan

Would you like to answer same questions from Indian perspective.
Actually, I have asked similar questions in my previous posts but got no answers, I'm still waiting.

 

[Always Neutral]

Would you like to answer same questions from Indian perspective.
Actually, I have asked similar questions in my previous posts but got no answers, I'm still waiting.

Dear Batman,

Actually I would like it from a Pakistani soldiers point of view as sometimes he will be caught in situations like that which may pit his training against his religion. I am not interested in an India Pakistan one dayer match but just your views and perspectives.

Regards

 

[dabong1]

Dabong,

I dont know whether I should say this. But is this not the root of all problems faced British muslims of pakistani descent?

You are a british citizen and instead of saying proudly that british army represent me, you used the words, "unfortunately". Which means you wanted to be represented by someone else(Pakistani, I guess). I dont know what to say.

If this is the level of integration of an educated person, I can only imagine what will be the level of integration of a madarsa educated one. Do you understand what I am saying? You are saying that I want to not only be different due to religion but also due to my ancestral country and yearn for it more than the country to whom you owe your life to.

OR is it simply a case of me reading too much into a single word?

Mods: Sorry for digressing off the topic, but the words "unfortunately" got me spinning.

Bro you reading to much into what i said.
I will defend the UK from attack no matter who it is,and yes even if pakistan attacked the UK i would fight against pakistan.
But i am not going on a plane to some far of country and attack them.
You want me to say i am proud that the british army is fighting a illigeal war in iraq,my friends are there i do not want them to die.
If tony blair really belived all the cr*p he said why did he not get his son to join the army?
The uk is a democratic county i can say what i want.
You keep talking of "integration" if in 50 years the muslims/pakistanis have MPs in the house of commons ,lords in house of lords and 100s if not thousands of councillers around britian and are involved in everyfield of social/financial life in the UK is that not "integrated" or do you want us to change out names to peter and john and support the govt right or wrong and then we are "integration".
It reminds me of a example the former tory minister Lord Tebbit who wanted a test to see how much british/english the immigrant community was.The test he made was to see if the indians/pakistanis supported england or there countries of orgin.
It made sense until the asian community pointed out does the same apply for the irish/scots and welsh who have lived in england for hundreds of years but still support there own countries.
What about the the brits in spain who have lived there since the 60s and have children and grandchildren but still class themself as english and would not join the spanish army or football team.Why is there always a different set of rules that we get judged off?
I could also give the examples of dubai and saudi where the brits have lived but never "integrated".
The madrassa example you gave,no offence just shows how much the mass media has influenced your opinions to suit there agenda while making you think you have made a unbiased opinion on a subject.
Osama bin ladin
ayman al zawahiri
Saddam hussein
London bombers
9/11 bombers
Glasgow bombers
Indian parliment attack......which madrassa did all the people mentioned go to?

As our history teacher told us "Towing the government line is the worst form of patritosim"

 

[Always Neutral]

Bro you reading to much into what i said.
I will defend the UK from attack no matter who it is,and yes even if pakistan attacked the UK i would fight against pakistan.
But i am not going on a plane to some far of country and attack them.
You want me to say i am proud that the british army is fighting a illigeal war in iraq,my friends are there i do not want them to die.
If tony blair really belived all the cr*p he said why did he not get his son to join the army?
The uk is a democratic county i can say what i want.
You keep talking of "integration" if in 50 years the muslims/pakistanis have MPs in the house of commons ,lords in house of lords and 100s if not thousands of councillers around britian and are involved in everyfield of social/financial life in the UK is that not "integration" or do you want us to change out names to peter and john and support the govt right or wrong and then we are "integration".
The madrassa example you gave,no offence just shows how much the mass media has influenced your opinions to suit there agenda while making you think you have made a unbiased opinion on a subject.
Osama bin ladin
ayman al zawahiri
Saddam hussein
London bombers
9/11 bombers
Glasgow bombers
Indian parliment attack......which madrassa did all the people mentioned go to?

Actually Dabong 1 is right. The new PM is planning to ammend the rules to allow parliament to decide when Britain goes to war unlike Blair who when told by US to jump instead of why he said how high. All said and done UK is one of the fairest countries when it comes to integration
and human rights. I support the war in Afghanistan but today I am not so sure about Iraq.

Regards

 

[Mercenary]

GEO reporting that final assault is imminent

 

[BATMAN]

I'm sure the company of col. Haroon would be very impatient to bring this shame to climax.
At the same time I would not support any deviations from the orignal plans due to this very sad incident.
There can be many fallouts of this operation so at the same time govt. should prepare it self for other fronts.
Vigilance should be raised in around other similar saminaries and on roads leading to Afghanistan.
Any politician who speak in support of lal Mosque should be arrested and trialed for treason. As I understand the order for operation has been issued by court.

 

[bhangra12345]

Bro you reading to much into what i said.
I will defend the UK from attack no matter who it is,and yes even if pakistan attacked the UK i would fight against pakistan.
But i am not going on a plane to some far of country and attack them.
You want me to say i am proud that the british army is fighting a illigeal war in iraq,my friends are there i do not want them to die.
If tony blair really belived all the cr*p he said why did he not get his son to join the army?
The uk is a democratic county i can say what i want.
You keep talking of "integration" if in 50 years the muslims/pakistanis have MPs in the house of commons ,lords in house of lords and 100s if not thousands of councillers around britian and are involved in everyfield of social/financial life in the UK is that not "integrated" or do you want us to change out names to peter and john and support the govt right or wrong and then we are "integration".
It reminds me of a example the former tory minister Lord Tebbit who wanted a test to see how much british/english the immigrant community was.The test he made was to see if the indians/pakistanis supported england or there countries of orgin.
It made sense until the asian community pointed out does the same apply for the irish/scots and welsh who have lived in england for hundreds of years but still support there own countries.
What about the the brits in spain who have lived there since the 60s and have children and grandchildren but still class themself as english and would not join the spanish army or football team.Why is there always a different set of rules that we get judged off?
I could also give the examples of dubai and saudi where the brits have lived but never "integrated".
The madrassa example you gave,no offence just shows how much the mass media has influenced your opinions to suit there agenda while making you think you have made a unbiased opinion on a subject.
Osama bin ladin
ayman al zawahiri
Saddam hussein
London bombers
9/11 bombers
Glasgow bombers
Indian parliment attack......which madrassa did all the people mentioned go to?

As our history teacher told us "Towing the government line is the worst form of patritosim"

Dabong1,

there is a difference between being proud of being represented by an army and not approving of some of its actions, these two atleast for me are inherently different. I might not agree with IPKF action in sri lanka, but whether I am proud to be represented by Indian army. Yes, I am. Most of the f*king terrorists you mentioned above have studied mostly in modern educational institutions, but where did they get these idiotic ideas from? It was from their assosciation with madarsas or people who have connections with madarsas. To put in another way, what are madarsas(please note not all) to terrorism. They act as centers of propoganda. For example, afghanistan does not even have a single newspaper running. Saudi Arabia has huge control over what their newspapers publish.(9/11 are most from here) So what are the alternate centres of "news"? It is this role which is being questioned. You might say, in ancient India, temples also acted the same way. The point is it is "ancient india".

Dabong1, I sincerely apologize for pointing fingers at you.

Actually it was not my idea, I was trying to point to a phenomenon where people living in a land but their culture is inherited from different country getting extremist and then waging war against the land they live in. Arent the london bombers examples of the same phenomenon? I just muddied myself by paraphrasing my last post in that way.

Actually Dabong 1 is right. The new PM is planning to ammend the rules to allow parliament to decide when Britain goes to war unlike Blair who when told by US to jump instead of why he said how high. All said and done UK is one of the fairest countries when it comes to integration
and human rights. I support the war in Afghanistan but today I am not so sure about Iraq.

Always Neutral sir,

The above question points serious questions regarding the demarcation of legislature and executive. Is declaring war an executive action or making a law? I think it is the former. When declaring war is an executive action, how can it be made by the parliament?

bhangra12345

 

[Bull]

I saw a shocking news yesterday in one iof the regional channels, it said the death were 327, of which 300 were civilians inside and 27 were combat casulaities ( soldiers and extremists). I changed back to aljazeera/CNN/BBC/ARY, everybody was reporting the 27 casualities only.

 

[intruder]

Pakistan to negotiate over mosque
The stand-off remains tense, though clashes have subsided
Pakistan's president has decided to put together a team of hostage negotiators to try to end a continuing siege at a radical Islamabad mosque, reports say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6283288.stm