Bollywood: the Ideology of India

[Hamzay]

Dil Se to sedate Mani Pur

In this film, India brainwashed her masses that whatever is going on in Mani Pur is the fault of it's own people, their tribal warfare and terror outfits funded by China and Pakistan.

The main theme was that New Delhi is in love with Mani Pur; Amar Kant Verma, a man from New Delhi 'truly' fell in love with a Mani Pur girl, a suicide bomber, and finally he gave his life for his love.

So in the cover of Bollywood, Indian oppressors can do anything wrong to a state.

And breaking Pakistan. You dance n our songs.

I'm concerned with breaking India so that people living in this country can be independent and liberated.

Bajirao Mastani to make Indians believe they have a glorious past

 

[KRAIT]

I'm concerned with breaking India so that people living in this country can be independent and liberated.

You have Balochistan, NWFP, FATA region in trouble and you are concerned about India. Check your own backyard. Afghanis and Iranians are killing your people. Hahahaha....

 

[Hamzay]

You have Balochistan, NWFP, FATA region in trouble and you are concerned about India. Check your own backyard. Afghanis and Iranians are killing your people. Hahahaha....

We have an ideology to unite them; religion, language, lifestyle (quite similar).

And you have a Cheap Ideology of dancing, singing, acting and brainwashing to keep India united.

 

[Zibago]

You might be surprised at the title of this thread, but I have found this the strongest string that unites India's multilingual, multicultural, multi-religious masses and a multitude of issues and problems.




Not a key contribution to economy. But it's not about economy at all.





Here's a demography of India's religions:

Bollywood is the opium of masses.

Hamzay

Conclusion: India doesn't have an ideology like the 'Two Nation Theory' that created Pakistan. So, India has to 'sedate her wild populations' with Bollywood. This is the cheap vision of this 'great country'.

Our industry was 4th largest in the world at one point in time bad policies destroyed it

 

[KRAIT]

We have an ideology to unite them; religion, language, lifestyle (quite similar).

And you have a Cheap Ideology of dancing, singing, acting and brainwashing to keep India united.

We have multiculturalism. So bad, you guys dance on our tunes. Hahahaha...

 

[Shajida Khan]

Perhaps you don't know what Two Nation Theory is. It states that Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations who can't coexist together in a country. We proved it in 1947, and Sheikh Mujib proved it again in 1971 when he didn't merge East Pakistan with West Bengal and continued separating Bengali Muslims from Bengali Hindus and the rest of India. Bangladesh is a member of Organisation of Islamic Conference and her state religion is Islam.

You proved nothing!

I will like to quote Jinnah himself and what he told to the newly formed Pakistan and Pakistani in 1948.

Our enemies had hoped to kill Pakistan at its inception. Pakistan has, on the contrary, arisen triumphant and stronger than ever. It has come to stay, and play its great role for which it is destined.

Let me at once assure you that my government attaches the greatest importance to these matters and is anxiously and constantly engaged in ensuring that Eastern Pakistan attains it full stature with the maximum of speed.

My young friends, I look forward to you as the real makers of Pakistan, do not be exploited and do not be misled. Create amongst yourselves complete unity and solidarity. Set an example of what youth can do. Your main occupation should be --in fairness to yourself, in fairness to your parents, in fairness to the State to devote your attention to your studies.

After you leave the portals of your universities and colleges taken you, can play your part freely and help yourself and the State.

So what is the use of saying "we are Bengalis, or Sindhis, or Pathans, or Punjabi". No, we are Muslims.

Islam has taught us this, and I think you will agree with me that whatever else you may be and whatever you are, you are a Muslim. You belong to a Nation now; you have now carved out a territory, vast territory, it is all yours; it does not belong to a Punjabi or a Sindhi, or a Pathan, or a Bengali; it is yours.

Therefore, if you want to build up yourself into a Nation, for God's sake give up this provincialism. Provincialism has been one of the curses; and so is sectionalism --Shia, Sunni, etc.

Therefore, so far as the State Language is concerned, Pakistani language shall be Urdu. But, as I have said, it will come in time.

I tell you once again, do not fall into the trap of those who are the enemies of Pakistan.

We are not going to tolerate sabotage anymore; we are not going to tolerate the enemies of Pakistan; we are not going to tolerate quislings and fifth-columnists in our State, and if this is not stopped, I am confident that your Government and the Pakistan Government will take the strongest measures and deal with them ruthlessly, because they are a poison.

Let me appeal to you to keep together, put up with inconveniences, sufferings and sacrifices, for the collective good of our people. No amount of troubles, no amount of hard work or sacrifice contribution for the collective good of your nation and your State. It is in that way, that you will build up Pakistan as the fifth largest State in the world, not only in population as it is but also in strength, so that it will command the respect of all the other nations of the world.

Source : http://www.quaid-e-azam.net/quotes.php

He was wrong and it was proven that he was dead wrong!

Two-Nation Theory either you interpret as 'Hindu Muslim are two nations' OR
'Hindu and Muslim cannot live in one nation' was both proven wrong!

Lingual and provincial basis proved too powerful for Islam to combine into one. This was the first failure of Jinnah and Iqbal. Pakistan broke as a nation.

'Hindus and Muslims cannot live in one nation' is being constantly been proved wrong. Each day India exists as a free nation and grows stronger, it proves the folly of Iqbal and Jinnah. My family and million of like ours in India proves that he was dead wrong.

Muslim nation failed to survive as one while secular India did. What bigger proof you need?

Pakistan of 1947 collapsed on its own weight --ofcourse India also helped putting few straws in that -- and from it arose two broken states, Bangladesh and well West Pakistan. Jinnah whole narrative of fifth largest country was gone.

As far as Bangladesh goes, why do you think India in '71 was having any intentions to absorb B'desh? For us the poor and hungry B'deshis were are liability not assets. Infact on the eve of Pakistan's surrender Indra Gandhi addressed the world and B'deshi specifically calling them 'free capital of a free nation'. There was nowhere any intent to keep B'desh.

Why do you think default state of your severed nation was to join ours? There was no narrative in '71 to get B'deshi aboard.

 

[DrPuff]

It's a weapon against those who want independence from India.

That's a rotten assumption of a Pakistani..
Last 70 years fed by these assumptions only..

 

[Shajida Khan]

That's a rotten assumption of a Pakistani..
Last 70 years fed by these assumptions only..

The problem is simple. Pakistani do not have enough infrastructure for a diverse and vibrant film industry. So they harp about ours. Ask these guys, what happened when they banned Indian movies. Their own local multiplexes etc went empty.

Even what even movies they make are cheap china brand copy of Bollywood.

Our industry was 4th largest in the world at one point in time bad policies destroyed it

When was your film industry fourth largest and behind whom?

We have an ideology to unite them; religion, language, lifestyle (quite similar).

And you have a Cheap Ideology of dancing, singing, acting and brainwashing to keep India united.

Too bad! Not exactly what your Jinnah had planned.

So what is the use of saying "we are Bengalis, or Sindhis, or Pathans, or Punjabi". No, we are Muslims.

Islam has taught us this, and I think you will agree with me that whatever else you may be and whatever you are, you are a Muslim. You belong to a Nation now; you have now carved out a territory, vast territory, it is all yours; it does not belong to a Punjabi or a Sindhi, or a Pathan, or a Bengali; it is yours.

Also, may be you should change your flag from white green to pure green. Since its all about one religion in Pakistan now? Right?

 

[Hamzay]

You proved nothing!
He was wrong and it was proven that he was dead wrong!

Two-Nation Theory either you interpret as 'Hindu Muslim are two nations' OR
'Hindu and Muslim cannot live in one nation' was both proven wrong!

Lingual and provincial basis proved too powerful for Islam to combine into one. This was the first failure of Jinnah and Iqbal. Pakistan broke as a nation.

Jinnah was successful in breaking India using Two Nation Theory (right or wrong); you admit that?

Bangladesh was created because of direct intervention of Indian forces, and there was no ideology other than Indian involvement that caused this.

West Pakistan of 1971 and present Pakistan of today is still intact with Two Nation Theory as its foundation.

Kashmiris want independence from India on the basis of this same theory; they don't want to live under Hindus. Their demand is officially noted by the UNO also.

'Hindus and Muslims cannot live in one nation' is being constantly been proved wrong. Each day India exists as a free nation and grows stronger, it proves the folly of Iqbal and Jinnah. My family and million of like ours in India proves that he was dead wrong.

When Muslims are lynched and killed for eating or selling beef, or even on allegation of slaughtering a cow, it proves Two Nation Theory was right.

When Bollywood starts like Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan are questioned for their loyalty to India, it proves Two Nation was right.

Muslim nation failed to survive as one while secular India did. What bigger proof you need?

Bangladesh was created by the use of force. Bengalis of East Pakistan voted 'for Pakistan' in 1970 election, under the Constitution (LFO). There was no vote in 1971 to decide the future of East Pakistan in terms of secession.

Now if Pakistan gets a Super Power involved in Kashmir by using force and Jammu Kashmir gets independence from India, will you call it victory for Two Nation Theory?

Pakistan of 1947 collapsed on its own weight --of course India also helped putting few straws in that -- and from it arose two broken states, Bangladesh and well West Pakistan. Jinnah whole narrative of fifth largest country was gone.

There was no precedence in the world of a country divided into two halves who were more than a 1000 miles apart. East Pakistan was not viable at all surrounded by our sworn enemy from 3 sides, disconnected from the 'base in Karachi/Islamabad'.

So in the world of reality, you can't use example of East Pakistan/Bangladesh to discredit the Two Nation Theory. Two Nation Theory has been successful to unite Pashtoons, Punjabis, Sindhis, Baloch and other communities in the best possible way. Balochistan is also not a disputed territory as per UNO resolutions but Jammu Kashmir is.

As far as Bangladesh goes, why do you think India in '71 was having any intentions to absorb B'desh? For us the poor and hungry B'deshis were are liability not assets. Infact on the eve of Pakistan's surrender Indra Gandhi addressed the world and B'deshi specifically calling them 'free capital of a free nation'. There was nowhere any intent to keep B'desh.

Indira Gandhi's statement doesn't count here. There was no official desire by East Pakistanis/Bangladeshis recorded in 1971 for a merger with India. They were still believing in the Two Nation Theory, that they didn't want to live with a Hindu majority.

Why do you think default state of your severed nation was to join ours? There was no narrative in '71 to get B'deshi aboard.

Once again, Indian narrative doesn't count, but Bangladeshi/East Pakistani does. They didn't wish a merger with 'Mother India'. Two Nation Theory, practically, intact!

Lahore Resolution of 1940 proves my point

Pakistan was founded on Two Nation Theory which is officially described in the Lahore Resolution in these words:

..the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in the North Western and Eastern Zones of (British) India should be grouped to constitute ‘independent states’ in which the constituent units should be autonomous and sovereign.

You may read that Lahore Resolution talks about constituting independent 'states'; not just one state. Because Muslim League leaders knew that it was NOT practical to form one country with two wings as in the North West and in the East.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Jinnah was successful in breaking India using Two Nation Theory (right or wrong); you admit that?

There was no India before '47. As much as I have heard in this forum. Was there any country called India before 15th Aug 47? Heck Pakistan have their Independence day before us! how can you break something which was not even existing. What Jinnah broke was a British colony. So there is nothing for me to admit there.

Bangladesh was created because of direct intervention of Indian forces, and there was no ideology other than Indian involvement that caused this.

A certain blood telegram might have made your own formermen country some what ... unhappy, isn't it? Yet you forgot to mention that! How cute!

When Muslims are lynched and killed for eating or selling beef, or even on allegation of slaughtering a cow, it proves Two Nation Theory was right.

Add all the muslims killed in India in past 50 years and also add all the other minorities killed. Then compare it with the brutal killings of operation search light. No wonder your nation broke while ours --still having many imperfection-- keep on going strong. You see there is a difference in faltering, falling and getting back at your feet AND breaking your leg -- permanently.

There was no precedence in the world of a country divided into two halves who were more than a 1000 miles apart.

Yeah Yeah! There is! It is called the great and mighty USA! State of Alaska? Hawaii? Never heard them brooding and breaking apart. Hawaii is infact too far from mainland USA.

East Pakistan was not viable at all surrounded by our sworn enemy from 3 sides, disconnected from the 'base in Karachi/Islamabad'.

Then why the hell Pakistan didn't refuse from being east bengal from being a part pakistan from the beginning? Two nation theory had roots in Iqbal's speech in 1930 in Allahabad or even before that! Was his and Jinnah's vision so clouded that he saw the impossibility of Hindu Muslim living together but NOT the impossibility of Urdu Speaking folks of West and Bengali Speaking folks of east living together? Or presence of hostile India sorrounding East Pakistan?

Infact even today your thinking that --base in Karachi/Islamabad-- shows your ignorance and arrogance! The entire narrative that 'Defence/Upward mobility of East Pakistan lies in West' was stupid to begin with! The dominance of Punjab fat-arse politicians in Pakistani politics broke it. You treated East Pakistani as sub-ordinates and no wonder they left you!

Indira Gandhi's statement doesn't count here. There was no official desire by East Pakistanis/Bangladeshis recorded in 1971 for a merger with India. They were still believing in the Two Nation Theory, that they didn't want to live with a Hindu majority.

Let me put it in this way. Since you blame India for breaking Pakistan into two in '71. Indra's whole plan was to break Pakistan but not to capture east pakistan. Why? because east pakistan was too much of a burden on India AND it will cause a new territorial claim on India soil by Pakistan! It will be projected as Indian occupation of another part of Pakistan and Indian violation of Pakistani sovereignty. No wonder she chose nothing to do with East Pakistan once broken -- she only hailed them as a free nation with free capital and done with it.

Even more! Even if B'deshi at that time would have begged her to let them join India, she would have refused it! for the above mention reason.

There is no two nation theory at work here Janaab! It is simple international politics. India was a member of UN by that time and didn't want to be seen as a aggressor or an invader. It might have invited US led UNSC armies.

Remember, a certain Russia who swallowed or tried to swallow Crimea had quite a bit of sanctions slapped on them? We didn't want any of that fate in '71 especially for a bunch of people who were poor, hungry and were impossible to integrate in our population.

Once again, Indian narrative doesn't count, but Bangladeshi/East Pakistani does. They didn't wish a merger with 'Mother India'. Two Nation Theory, practically, intact!

Okay then name Two nations? One Hindu nation ie Hindustan and Two??? muslim nations ie Pakistan and B'desh. As we say, it literally does not add up

 

[Shajida Khan]

You may read that Lahore Resolution talks about constituting independent 'states'; not just one state. Because Muslim League leaders knew that it was NOT practical to form one country with two wings as in the North West and in the East.

It was a mere resolution and was never adapted into practice as there were only two states which were formed.

BTW, it is not that Jinnah thought that more than one nations should exist of Muslim people in Indian subcontinent. He was very clear that Hindus and Muslims are very very different and cannot live together but when it comes to muslims themselves he was of a totally different opinion.

In the very same meetings in which Muslim League adapter this resolution he can be seen saying -- I quote as below :-

“Mussalmans are a nation according to any definition of a nationhood. We wish our people to develop to the fullest spiritual, cultural, economic, social and political life in a way that we think best and in consonance with our own ideals and according to the genius of our people”


http://historypak.com/lahore-resolution-1940/

His vision was that of one single nation for muslims, which is what happened in the end. And rest my friend is history. His and muslim league's follies of treating Muslims as one nation and different from Hindus made us -- India and Pakistan -- a bitter enemy.

Further damning proof of this 'Two Nation' experiment comes from what many in muslim league though of Lahore resolution.

Sikandar Hayat khan, Punjab Premier and leader of the Unionist Party, who had drafted the resolution, declared in a Punjab assembly sppech on 1 march 1941 that he was opposed to the Pakistan that would mean “Muslim Raj here and Hindhu Raj elsewhere… If Pakistan means then I will have nothing to do with it” . He reiterated his plea for a loose, confederation with considerable autonomy for the confederating units. In his mind 'States' were contiguous regions in India where Muslim were given autonomy and India would perhaps be a federation.

Partition on religious ground was something which Jinnah had in mind and his idea was of two nation. Hindu one and one for Muslim. That is what happened. Obviously later his idea failed spectecularly.

 

[El Sidd]

It was a mere resolution and was never adapted into practice as there were only two states which were formed.

BTW, it is not that Jinnah thought that more than one nations should exist of Muslim people in Indian subcontinent. He was very clear that Hindus and Muslims are very very different and cannot live together but when it comes to muslims themselves he was of a totally different opinion.

In the very same meetings in which Muslim League adapter this resolution he can be seen saying -- I quote as below :-

“Mussalmans are a nation according to any definition of a nationhood. We wish our people to develop to the fullest spiritual, cultural, economic, social and political life in a way that we think best and in consonance with our own ideals and according to the genius of our people”


http://historypak.com/lahore-resolution-1940/

His vision was that of one single nation for muslims, which is what happened in the end. And rest my friend is history. His and muslim league's follies of treating Muslims as one nation and different from Hindus made us -- India and Pakistan -- a bitter enemy.

Further damning proof of this 'Two Nation' experiment comes from what many in muslim league though of Lahore resolution.

Sikandar Hayat khan, Punjab Premier and leader of the Unionist Party, who had drafted the resolution, declared in a Punjab assembly sppech on 1 march 1941 that he was opposed to the Pakistan that would mean “Muslim Raj here and Hindhu Raj elsewhere… If Pakistan means then I will have nothing to do with it” . He reiterated his plea for a loose, confederation with considerable autonomy for the confederating units. In his mind 'States' were contiguous regions in India where Muslim were given autonomy and India would perhaps be a federation.

Partition on religious ground was something which Jinnah had in mind and his idea was of two nation. Hindu one and one for Muslim. That is what happened. Obviously later his idea failed spectecularly.

Adaab
Mizaaj Sharif Muhtarma

 

[Zibago]

When was your film industry fourth largest and behind whom?

Pre Zia era

That is what happened. Obviously later his idea failed spectecularly.

And yet that nation has lesser poverty than the hindu counterpart i wonder why?

 

[prashantazazel]

For me, India is the land of secularism and freedom. Religion isn't forced upon you here. If it is, in some rural areas, you can always move to a city.
The union of states also unites moderates and liberals across the landmass, and from religious fanatics across the border.
The way I see it- India is a country of a few loud fanatics and a lot of liberals.

Bollywood is just for the times when you need to chill outside at a mall. ..

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You might be surprised at the title of this thread, but I have found this the strongest string that unites India's multilingual, multicultural, multi-religious masses and a multitude of issues and problems.




Not a key contribution to economy. But it's not about economy at all.





Here's a demography of India's religions:

Bollywood is the opium of masses.

Hamzay

Conclusion: India doesn't have an ideology like the 'Two Nation Theory' that created Pakistan. So, India has to 'sedate her wild populations' with Bollywood. This is the cheap vision of this 'great country'.