Boeing’s China orders ‘likely to be affected’ with home-grown C919 passenger jet set for certification, C919 likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sale

[beijingwalker]

Boeing’s China orders ‘likely to be affected’ with home-grown C919 passenger jet set for certification, C919 likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sales in China​

• Reports in China suggest the home-grown C919 narrow-body passenger jet could be certified as early as Monday, having been in development since 2008
• Single-aisle C919 has been built by the state-owned Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320

Published: 10:15pm, 14 Sep, 2022

The single-aisle C919 has been built to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320. Photo: AFP

Boeing’s return to the critical Chinese market may face another stumbling block, analysts said, after local media reported that China’s home-grown C919 narrow-body passenger jet could be certified as early as Monday.

The China Times newspaper reported on Tuesday that the C919, manufactured by the state-owned Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac), will receive certification from China’s aviation regulator at the start of next week, citing unnamed sources close to the Shanghai-based manufacturer.

Yicai news service also reported on Tuesday that the C919 will be certificated “as soon as this month” with China Eastern Airlines set to receive the first delivery “within the year”, without citing any sources.
Comac and the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) did not respond to faxed requests for comment on the media reports.

It is significant in its local market where it is likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sales, but this will be extremely difficult to replicate globallyJohn Strickland​

Certification by the CAAC would pave the way for Comac to start delivering its C919, which has been in development since 2008.


The single-aisle C919 has been built to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320, and despite a series of delays, the anticipated certification represents a key step for the domestic market in China.
“It is significant in its local market where it is likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sales, but this will be extremely difficult to replicate globally,” said John Strickland, director of aviation at consultancy firm JLS Consulting.

“It takes considerable time to build a reputation, and there is a need for consistent, reliable after-sales service and spares support in all markets where the aircraft may operate. This will be challenging to achieve.”

Shanghai-based China Eastern Airlines is expected to be the first carrier to operate the C919, having ordered four of the aircraft in May at a cost of US$99 million each.

“I suspect that there will be a lot of pressure on the Chinese carriers to support the C919, so yes, Boeing in China too does not see a short or straight road back,” said Andrew Charlton, managing director of consulting firm Aviation Advocacy.

Boeing’s business in China has been caught in the growing rift between Beijing and Washington since 2018.

Its 737 MAX has yet to return to service in China even though the CAAC issued an airworthiness directive in December for the passenger jet which has been grounded in China since March 2019 after 346 people were killed in two deadly crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia in the space of five months.

In July, the Chicago-based aerospace giant also saw its rival Airbus secure a bulk order for 292 of its A320 single-aisle passenger jets from four Chinese airlines.
“Ultimately Boeing orders in China are likely to be affected by the C919, but I think political relationships will play a more important role,” added Strickland.

The battle of tech supremacy between China and the United States has also spilled over to aviation, with American backers prohibited from investing in Comac after Washington designated the state-owned firm as being “owned or controlled” by the People’s Liberation Army.

The C919 is a key symbol of China’s ambitions to muscle into the trillion dollar global jet market, but many of its components are imported, with US companies accounting for most of the top suppliers.

China’s aviation market has also suffered under Beijing’s strict zero-Covid policy, with total losses in the first half of 2022 exceeding all of 2020 and 2021 combined, CAAC chief Song Zhiyong said in July, according to local media.

Debt owed by Chinese carriers grew by an average 11.9 per cent to 82.2 per cent this year compared with the average debt level before the coronavirus pandemic.

China’s travel industry is also under pressure, with the number of domestic tourism trips taken during the recent three-day Mid-Autumn Festival holiday down by 16.7 per cent compared to a year earlier and by 27.4 per cent compared with the pre-pandemic levels in 2019.

Boeing’s China orders ‘to be affected’ with home-grown C919 set for green light

Reports in China suggest the home-grown C919 narrow-body passenger jet, built to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320, could be certified as early as Monday having been in development since 2008.

www.scmp.com

 

[Song Hong]

I guess now China aircraft makers are short of parts.

There is a suspicious and inexplicable shortage ICs, communication equipments, avionics in the world and lead time can be as long as 3 years.

I also suspect Boeing and Airbus has a rat line, and they have all parts they want at short lead time.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Buh Buh Boeing. It was nice knowing ya.

@RoadAmerica @gambit @Oldman1

 

[Song Hong]

The demise of Boeing started with Phil Condits, himself an smart engineer who later earn an MBA,

After ascending to leadership, he hated the Boeing engineering culture rabidly and aim to destroy it.

 

[ozranger]

I guess now China aircraft makers are short of parts.

There is a suspicious and inexplicable shortage ICs, communication equipments, avionics in the world and lead time can be as long as 3 years.

I also suspect Boeing and Airbus has a rat line, and they have all parts they want at short lead time.

All those parts are required to be at least sourced from foreign suppliers running businesses locally in China or having joint venture with Chinese partners, a good example is avionics from Honeywell, etc. China can make Y-20 and therefore capability is not a problem to them.

China's local suppliers are reportedly competing for some shares in the existing supply chains. There is no chance for US to impose sanctions on that even for the engines as the backup engine CJ-1000 is on the way. Same applies to ARJ-21 as there is CJ-500 coming up. Worth noting they both are targeting domestic market so there is no FAA certification problem.

However the sanction successfully hit Xian MA700 as it is targeting export market and no China's engine makers are interested in developing one for it as for domestic market the high speed rail is more competitive.

 

[S10]

I don't think China should purchase anymore plane from Boeing, both from a product quality and geopolitical standpoints. Airbus order can continue until COMAC can get C919 and C929 into mass production.

The demise of Boeing started with Phil Condits, himself an smart engineer who later earn an MBA,

After ascending to leadership, he hated the Boeing engineering culture rabidly and aim to destroy it.

View attachment 879218

Never let your finance department run your manufacturing company. MBA and CPA grads know the cost of everything and value of nothing.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Never let your finance department run your manufacturing company. MBA and CPA grads know the cost of everything and value of nothing.

Absolutely 10000% agree with this - the bean counters should be left to count beans ...

 

[MultaniGuy]

Boeing’s China orders ‘likely to be affected’ with home-grown C919 passenger jet set for certification, C919 likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sales in China​

• Reports in China suggest the home-grown C919 narrow-body passenger jet could be certified as early as Monday, having been in development since 2008
• Single-aisle C919 has been built by the state-owned Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320

Published: 10:15pm, 14 Sep, 2022

The single-aisle C919 has been built to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320. Photo: AFP

Boeing’s return to the critical Chinese market may face another stumbling block, analysts said, after local media reported that China’s home-grown C919 narrow-body passenger jet could be certified as early as Monday.

The China Times newspaper reported on Tuesday that the C919, manufactured by the state-owned Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac), will receive certification from China’s aviation regulator at the start of next week, citing unnamed sources close to the Shanghai-based manufacturer.

Yicai news service also reported on Tuesday that the C919 will be certificated “as soon as this month” with China Eastern Airlines set to receive the first delivery “within the year”, without citing any sources.
Comac and the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) did not respond to faxed requests for comment on the media reports.

It is significant in its local market where it is likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sales, but this will be extremely difficult to replicate globallyJohn Strickland​

Certification by the CAAC would pave the way for Comac to start delivering its C919, which has been in development since 2008.


The single-aisle C919 has been built to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320, and despite a series of delays, the anticipated certification represents a key step for the domestic market in China.
“It is significant in its local market where it is likely to displace Airbus and Boeing sales, but this will be extremely difficult to replicate globally,” said John Strickland, director of aviation at consultancy firm JLS Consulting.

“It takes considerable time to build a reputation, and there is a need for consistent, reliable after-sales service and spares support in all markets where the aircraft may operate. This will be challenging to achieve.”

Shanghai-based China Eastern Airlines is expected to be the first carrier to operate the C919, having ordered four of the aircraft in May at a cost of US$99 million each.

“I suspect that there will be a lot of pressure on the Chinese carriers to support the C919, so yes, Boeing in China too does not see a short or straight road back,” said Andrew Charlton, managing director of consulting firm Aviation Advocacy.

Boeing’s business in China has been caught in the growing rift between Beijing and Washington since 2018.

Its 737 MAX has yet to return to service in China even though the CAAC issued an airworthiness directive in December for the passenger jet which has been grounded in China since March 2019 after 346 people were killed in two deadly crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia in the space of five months.

In July, the Chicago-based aerospace giant also saw its rival Airbus secure a bulk order for 292 of its A320 single-aisle passenger jets from four Chinese airlines.
“Ultimately Boeing orders in China are likely to be affected by the C919, but I think political relationships will play a more important role,” added Strickland.

The battle of tech supremacy between China and the United States has also spilled over to aviation, with American backers prohibited from investing in Comac after Washington designated the state-owned firm as being “owned or controlled” by the People’s Liberation Army.

The C919 is a key symbol of China’s ambitions to muscle into the trillion dollar global jet market, but many of its components are imported, with US companies accounting for most of the top suppliers.

China’s aviation market has also suffered under Beijing’s strict zero-Covid policy, with total losses in the first half of 2022 exceeding all of 2020 and 2021 combined, CAAC chief Song Zhiyong said in July, according to local media.

Debt owed by Chinese carriers grew by an average 11.9 per cent to 82.2 per cent this year compared with the average debt level before the coronavirus pandemic.

China’s travel industry is also under pressure, with the number of domestic tourism trips taken during the recent three-day Mid-Autumn Festival holiday down by 16.7 per cent compared to a year earlier and by 27.4 per cent compared with the pre-pandemic levels in 2019.

Boeing’s China orders ‘to be affected’ with home-grown C919 set for green light

Reports in China suggest the home-grown C919 narrow-body passenger jet, built to compete with Boeing’s 737 and Airbus’ A320, could be certified as early as Monday having been in development since 2008.

www.scmp.com

Pakistan should purchase regional jet planes.

 

[beijingwalker]

Breaking: COMAC’s C919 Receives Type Certification In Beijing Ceremony​

BYJOANNA BAILEY
PUBLISHED 2 HOURS AGO

COMAC’s first Chinese-produced narrowbody aircraft, the C919, has today received its type certification from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC). The certification was awarded at a grand ceremony in Beijing Capital Airport, marking the start of China’s entry into the wider commercial aviation market.

The certification of the C919 means it is finally ready to enter service, and has passed all the applicable Airworthiness Standards for Transport Aircraft (CCAR-25-R3) under Part 25 of the China Civil Aviation Regulations. It is hoped that the first aircraft will be delivered to launch customer China Eastern Airline this year.

It was hoped that the certification would go ahead on September 19th (9.19), but it seems China’s own quarantine policies interfered with this plan. President Xi Jinping wanted to attend the C919 certification ceremony, but due to a visit to Uzbekistan on September 14 - 16th, would have needed to quarantine for ten days on his return before the event could go ahead.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575438719493939203

Hopes for the COMAC C919​

The airplane is China’s hopes of breaking the Airbus-Boeing duopoly, and the nation has high hopes for sales to pick up to the global market. However, to date, mainly Chinese buyers have firmed up orders for the type, with major investors including Hainan Airlines, China Construction Bank (lessor) and Air China. However, GECAS has ordered 10 with 10 further options, which could, theoretically, end up anywhere.

Nevertheless, it is a momentous occasion for Chinese aviation, and has been a long time in the making. Originally started as a project in 2008, COMAC targeted a maiden flight of the type in 2014. Production of the first prototype began in 2011, with annual production targeted to reach 150 aircraft by 2020.

But huge budgetary overruns and teething troubles with the technical side of airplane production saw the timeline slip further and further into the future. Eventually, a completed prototype began high-speed taxi tests in 2017, with the first aircraft taking to the skies in May 2017. In December that year, a second prototype took flight, but things were moving very slowly.

Prototypes three, four, and five had all begun flying by October 2019, and the very last of the test campaign aircraft, prototype six, took flight in December that year. Since then, the test aircraft have been put through their paces, testing for everything from extreme weather conditions to avionics and electrical system conformity.

The first pre-delivery flight took place in May this year, with aircraft B-001J completing a three-hour flight. The aircraft bears the livery of Chinese airline OTT Airlines, a subsidiary of China Eastern, and should arrive with the airline later this year. However, it may well be the only C919 to be delivered to a customer in 2022.

he first production C919 is headed for Chinese carrier OTT Airlines. Photo: COMAC

Some challenges to overcome​

When the C919 was first floated, some airlines in the west showed interest. Indeed, European low-cost giant Ryanair had agreed to cooperate on the development of the aircraft, including the signing of an MoU for a 200-seat variant. While Michael O’Leary has expressed ongoing support for the plane in recent years, it might look less attractive now.

The issue is that, after its first pre-delivery flight, the list sales price of the C919 was revealed to be 653 million yuan (US$101 million), which is getting very close to the list prices of Boeing and Airbus alternatives. It’s around double the initially projected purchase price of $50 million.

As well as the higher purchase price, there is the issue of operational challenges to consider. The availability of spare parts, technical support and qualified pilots to fly the plane is going to be hugely challenging outside of China for many years to come. While the type may gain some traction in the Asian markets, for it to reach the west is going to take a mammoth effort from COMAC.

https://simpleflying.com/comac-c919-type-certification-complete/

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I certainly would hope China feels their own planes are worthy for their own market.

 

[beijingwalker]

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

The demise of Boeing started with Phil Condits, himself an smart engineer who later earn an MBA,

After ascending to leadership, he hated the Boeing engineering culture rabidly and aim to destroy it.

View attachment 879218

As if this made any difference in China's domestic aircraft building...which started well before he became CEO.

 

[beijingwalker]

China's homegrown C919 gets airworthiness permit, first jet to be delivered by end-2022
Updated 21:11, 30-Sep-2022
CGTN

China will deliver its first homegrown C919 large passenger plane by the end of 2022, China Media Group reported Friday.

The plane, developed by the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC), was granted a certificate of airworthiness by the country's aviation regulator, the Civil Aviation Administration of China, on Thursday.

The C919 is China's first trunk jetliner developed in accordance with international standards of airworthiness and with independent intellectual property rights.
It has 158 to 168 seats, a standard range of 4,075 kilometers and a maximum range of 5,555 kilometers.

Its certification signifies that China has the ability to independently develop world-class large passenger aircraft, and marks an important milestone for the country's large aircraft industry.

American aerospace manufacturer Boeing and France-based Airbus have long been considered a duopoly in the commercial airline market, which is worth trillions of U.S. dollars.

The C919, as part of China's goal to develop homemade civil airplanes, is trying to compete with medium-range passenger planes from the two global giants, such as Airbus's A320 and Boeing's 737 MAX.

The project of developing the C919 was approved in 2007. The plane made its successful maiden flight in 2017.

In March 2021, China Eastern Airlines, one of the country's largest airlines headquartered in Shanghai, signed a contract to buy five C919, the first commercial deal for the plane.

In August this year, COMAC announced that the C919 had completed the test flight for the airworthiness certification.

China's homegrown C919 to conduct its maiden commercial flight on Sunday

China delivered its first homegrown C919 large passenger plane to China Eastern Airlines in December 2022. The aircraft is set for the first commercial flight on Sunday.

news.cgtn.com

 

[MultaniGuy]

China's homegrown C919 gets airworthiness permit, first jet to be delivered by end-2022
Updated 21:11, 30-Sep-2022
CGTN

China will deliver its first homegrown C919 large passenger plane by the end of 2022, China Media Group reported Friday.

The plane, developed by the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC), was granted a certificate of airworthiness by the country's aviation regulator, the Civil Aviation Administration of China, on Thursday.

The C919 is China's first trunk jetliner developed in accordance with international standards of airworthiness and with independent intellectual property rights.
It has 158 to 168 seats, a standard range of 4,075 kilometers and a maximum range of 5,555 kilometers.

Its certification signifies that China has the ability to independently develop world-class large passenger aircraft, and marks an important milestone for the country's large aircraft industry.

American aerospace manufacturer Boeing and France-based Airbus have long been considered a duopoly in the commercial airline market, which is worth trillions of U.S. dollars.

The C919, as part of China's goal to develop homemade civil airplanes, is trying to compete with medium-range passenger planes from the two global giants, such as Airbus's A320 and Boeing's 737 MAX.

The project of developing the C919 was approved in 2007. The plane made its successful maiden flight in 2017.

In March 2021, China Eastern Airlines, one of the country's largest airlines headquartered in Shanghai, signed a contract to buy five C919, the first commercial deal for the plane.

In August this year, COMAC announced that the C919 had completed the test flight for the airworthiness certification.

China's homegrown C919 to conduct its maiden commercial flight on Sunday

China delivered its first homegrown C919 large passenger plane to China Eastern Airlines in December 2022. The aircraft is set for the first commercial flight on Sunday.

news.cgtn.com

Pakistan should buy these C919 jets.

 

[beijingwalker]

Xi Meets C919 Project Team, Urging More Breakthroughs in High-end Equipment Manufacturing​