Bloomberg: China risks repeating the mistakes of the Soviet Union in the confrontation with the United States

[Khan vilatey]

You seem to have comprehension problems.. as my post was not about war.. but containing the Chinese expansion..

My bad I did not read your post closely enough. I agree with it.

k

 

[aziqbal]

These numb nuts here don't understand that US has always been ahead of China militarily, so? The point is US will win a battle but lose the war, just like Afghanistan and Iraq, China have no intention of destroying US, they just want to maintain their own sphere and US needs to understand that.

China has zero chance to fight a war

US and its allies have encircled China

JMSDF alone can hold off the entire Chinese Military until allies come

and I am not even talking about the USN with 11 x Carriers and 11 x Amphibious Assault ships LHA

 

[TsAr]

Is that the best answer you could come up with? Were the Russians not a big power with 15000 nukes? Instead of calling me insults (a common sign the other party can't intellectually answer you), how about you quantify a counter argument to what I've stated? I am here to discuss and debate as it's a forum.

Russian economy was no way near to what the Chinese economy is right now. Russia attacked Afghanistan so that it could have access to warm waters, but China is not attacking any country it is making roads, so there is a difference in approach of both. USSR was a union of different countries brought under one umbrella, that's not the case with China.
China has learned a lot from USSR and would not repeat the same mistakes.

 

[fallstuff]

I have to say. You have so

As another one just said, utopia, which often comes from someone who doesn't know that:
1. rich is relative subjective.
2. so is the word "higher".

No wonder people call you leftist/socialist/communist as "statist" who always views the future from the static view of the present as if the present is something given and can be taken for granted.

And, I believe all you just dreamed about will come true when everyone is born equal: equal ability, equal appearance, equal taste, and hopefully reproductive asexually. Did I just describe a computer virus?

That is the problem with the extreme leftist folks , they have a certain vision of life, the way they think it should be. They just can't understand why someone may have different take on life. In most cases they are not that different from religious fundamentalist.

Reading the little red book routinely is not different than reading a certain religious books or scriptures same way. The point is to keep someone in a certain way of life.

These folks don't understand rich can't exist without the poor, happiness can't exist without sorrow.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Again pure banya pan no real value. For a country with a 26 trillion $ debt you are self evaluating the value of all asset ownership etc. at 126 trillion with government spending ….. you also noted the total us debt of 21.7 trillion with a gdp of 26 trillion …….
not being rude but do you have an economics background?
K

Russian economy was no way near to what the Chinese economy is right now. Russia attacked Afghanistan so that it could have access to warm waters, but China is not attacking any country it is making roads, so there is a difference in approach of both. USSR was a union of different countries brought under one umbrella, that's not the case with China.
China has learned a lot from USSR and would not repeat the same mistakes.

You failed the most critical point!! Russia was ONLY against the US. There was not really an arms race with the Europe as they were under NATO. However, in China's case, its adversaries are not just the US. It's other 4 big economies too, including Japan, UK, India, Australia to name just 4. So, in order for China to "effectively counter" these economies, not even including the US, it needs a defense budget of over $ 300 billion (60 billion per each of these nations as they have or can take their defense budget to this point). Lastly, the US is around a trillion in defense budget. So China would start to spend $ 1300 billion per year to be at par with these nations? Absolutely not happening. You guys think China is some miracle of God on earth.

Lastly, the US will arm Australia and India (Japan already has F-35's), plus 3-4 full time CBG's and bases in Vietnam. A force of 300-400 F-35's along with backup missile trucks called -18's, name which of the Chinese jets can survive. 75-80% of PLAAF and PLN will be gone.

I don't write these statement for fun, these are serious strategic matters and should be debated seriously.

 

[OIO]

China has zero chance to fight a war

US and its allies have encircled China

JMSDF alone can hold off the entire Chinese Military until allies come

and I am not even talking about the USN with 11 x Carriers and 11 x Amphibious Assault ships LHA

Welcome back Mr thinktank!

 

[American Pakistani]

Very sensible and logical conclusion. China can't win from the US militarily. Now add US, Australia and India in the equation and it's a lost battle. This isn't WWII that there are "blocks" to go against each other. Add Vietnam and a much stronger Taiwan in the mix too. It is wise to sit down with the US and talk trade and business and continue military modernization at a moderate pace as there is no way it can level (let alone win) with the nations I described above. The US has essentially built an anti-China alliance but only with much bigger nations to contain it easily (India, Australia for example and then there is the US and EU). Good article giving good advise to China.


I don't think you understood the logic provided in the article. Just like the top secret submarines being provided to Australia, let's assume if the US provides -35's to India, Australia and keeps a few squadrons in Vietnam and further strengthens Taiwan, this 300 number -35 force, essentially renders the PLAAF useless.

China is a "rising" economy. Not a global economic super power. The alliance against it, is the US, UK, India, Australia, all are extremely powerful economically. How many fronts will China focus on? To deter each of these, it would need $ 75-80 billion a year, take an example, India's defense budget is around this much while the US is close to a Trillion (times four, that's $ 300 billion plus R&D for future warfare, and then countering the US, etc). This arms race is MUCH more devastating for the Chinese than it is for the other 4 nations and 4 economies, vs. one nation and only one economy, i.e. the Chinese!

You think India will fight for united states against China? If your memory is so short, may I remind you how India ignored all your begging and pleas against Afghanistan? Here united states directly asked India for help.

The only reason India is using united states is to send its jobless population in US and to get American tech to fight pakistan.

Let's make a balanced equation so it makes sense to the readers. Please list:
1) China's defense budget VS.
2) USA's defense budget
3) Japan's defense budget
4) UK's defense budget
5) Australia's defense budget
6) India's defense budget

Now tell me how on earth you can even come close to starting an arms race? I've not listed Vietnam, Taiwan and EU yet!

And somehow you forgot Russia here?

BTW except united states from that list, all other are simply jokes.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

At the recent QUAD meeting, India sprung a surprise and objected to the QUAD being turned as an anti-China alliance.

Perhaps Modi came to a sudden realization after USA agreed to transfer its nuclear submarine technology to Australia but openly refused to even lease them after more than four requests in the case of India.

Indicating the level of TRUST between the outsiders in QUAD nations versus 4 eyes Anglo-Saxon Alliance.

Neither New Zealand, France or NATO were consulted.

All these talks of USA winning a war in China backyard is just useless talks by ignoramus and is indeed wet dreams as Pentagon find out in its war simulations.

So does it surprises anyone that USA has lost all its wars with China in the simulation?

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

You think India will fight for united states against China? If your memory is so short, may I remind you how India ignored all your begging and pleas against Afghanistan? Here united states directly asked India for help.

The only reason India is using united states is to send its jobless population in US and to get American tech to fight pakistan.

And somehow you forgot Russia here?

BTW except united states from that list, all other are simply jokes.

Indeed.

India needed cooperation from its immediate neighbours e.g. Pakistan, China and the other SCO nations to prevent the terrorists being trained in Taliban ruled Afghanistan from entering India.

The secret alliance and hegemonic design of the 4 eyes Anglo-Saxon Alliance is now openly exposed with the secret formation of AUKUS which was concluded behind their back without their knowledge.

Although US did send its envoy thru a flurry of diplomatic missions recently to the region e.g. Anotony Blinken, Jake Sullivan and Kamala to test the water.

Example. ASEAN has openly expressed its discomfort and refused to be drawn into the rivalry between USA and China.

 

[MH.Yang]

You failed the most critical point!! Russia was ONLY against the US. There was not really an arms race with the Europe as they were under NATO. However, in China's case, its adversaries are not just the US. It's other 4 big economies too, including Japan, UK, India, Australia to name just 4. So, in order for China to "effectively counter" these economies, not even including the US, it needs a defense budget of over $ 300 billion (60 billion per each of these nations as they have or can take their defense budget to this point). Lastly, the US is around a trillion in defense budget. So China would start to spend $ 1300 billion per year to be at par with these nations? Absolutely not happening. You guys think China is some miracle of God on earth.

Lastly, the US will arm Australia and India (Japan already has F-35's), plus 3-4 full time CBG's and bases in Vietnam. A force of 300-400 F-35's along with backup missile trucks called -18's, name which of the Chinese jets can survive. 75-80% of PLAAF and PLN will be gone.

I don't write these statement for fun, these are serious strategic matters and should be debated seriously.

The EU is nominally an ally of the USA, but when it comes to the dispute between a multipolar world and a unipolar world, The EU will be the enemy of the USA. The EU will not go to East Asia to help the USA, on the contrary, the USA dare not reduce its military investment in the EU. Once the USA reduces its military presence in Europe, the EU will immediately become a new China, a new challenger.

Japan and India are also unreliable. India, like China in essence, is a challenger to the old order. There is an irreconcilable contradiction between India and the USA on the interests and needs of the Indian Ocean. Japan is bent on getting rid of its colonial identity, so Japan's real purpose is to weaken China and the USA at the same time, not just China. The real ally that the USA can rely on is AUKUS.

China only needs enough oil supply, and does not have much requirements for its allies. In other words, as long as Russia remains neutral and does not join the USA. So China has never asked any country to choose the side between China and the USA.

 

[Han Patriot]

China has zero chance to fight a war

US and its allies have encircled China

JMSDF alone can hold off the entire Chinese Military until allies come

and I am not even talking about the USN with 11 x Carriers and 11 x Amphibious Assault ships LHA

Okay, start by winning Afghanistan first lol.

 

[Khan vilatey]

You failed the most critical point!! Russia was ONLY against the US. There was not really an arms race with the Europe as they were under NATO. However, in China's case, its adversaries are not just the US. It's other 4 big economies too, including Japan, UK, India, Australia to name just 4. So, in order for China to "effectively counter" these economies, not even including the US, it needs a defense budget of over $ 300 billion (60 billion per each of these nations as they have or can take their defense budget to this point). Lastly, the US is around a trillion in defense budget. So China would start to spend $ 1300 billion per year to be at par with these nations? Absolutely not happening. You guys think China is some miracle of God on earth.

Lastly, the US will arm Australia and India (Japan already has F-35's), plus 3-4 full time CBG's and bases in Vietnam. A force of 300-400 F-35's along with backup missile trucks called -18's, name which of the Chinese jets can survive. 75-80% of PLAAF and PLN will be gone.

I don't write these statement for fun, these are serious strategic matters and should be debated seriously.

Again, have you ever read history how are old are you, must be one of those instagram Millennials. You need to get off the inter web and social un media and read things called books . History books. When you do this you will know that ther was the soviet block of countries vs the allied block of countries. All innovated and the fight was between these blocks. England, France, Germany and a lot of European countries created their own arsenals and aircrafts and weapons. Once such example was the mirage fighter , then there was the euro fighter, then their were the viggens…… there were tons of weapons and equipment vs all the Soviet block weapons …….

It never was and is a fight between two countries it’s economic blocks fighting ….

let me explains there’s are 350 million people in America which uses about 24% of the world resources 24% Inclusive of energy and are 15% of the world gdp. 750 million European constitute about 15% of the world gdp and use about 20% of the world resources. These number add up to about 44% today. in the19th century 1901-2000 due to colonization these number were in excess of 60% some say as high as 70%. The world use to provide for Europe then America as virtual slaves.( this is what sahsi tavoor means when he speaks about r a p e of India but the colonists) This stuff gave rise to communism and the UsSR was formed given a good life style to the Soviet block people. Now we can debate free will and individualism but the quality of life was pretty good in the Soviet block.

today China contributes 18% of the world gdp india is about 2-3 % Japan is about 5% so all of Asia combined we are about 20-30% of the works gdp. The sukiest thing is
today 59% of the world population still sorta serves America and Europe but that trend is changing in favor of Asia. This is because we are tapping into African and Asian resources and beginning to use it ourselves. This is raising alarm bells in the west which wants better for her people.

This is why the west wants conflicts in Asia and India is the great impediment in the East’s rise to power.

This is why I think modi knowingly or unwittingly is a plant of the west. His role is to make sure india gets into a conflict and is Balkanized to weaken China and ensure india never becomes another economic power in the Asian region as The west will lose all their hegemony. If that happens. They are using simple divide and conquer to make us fight. Japan, Taiwan and the rest of the Asian countries are part of this economy , india is not . They all want a militarily somewhat contained China but an economically strong China

Percent of world GDP in Asia | TheGlobalEconomy.com

The average for 2021 based on 45 countries was 0.83 percent. The highest value was in China: 18.6 percent and the lowest value was in Bhutan: 0 percent. The indicator is available from 1980 to 2021. Below is a chart for all countries where data are available.

www.theglobaleconomy.com

k

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

The EU is nominally an ally of the USA, but when it comes to the dispute between a multipolar world and a unipolar world, The EU will be the enemy of the USA. The EU will not go to East Asia to help the USA, on the contrary, the USA dare not reduce its military investment in the EU. Once the USA reduces its military presence in Europe, the EU will immediately become a new China, a new challenger.

Japan and India are also unreliable. India, like China in essence, is a challenger to the old order. There is an irreconcilable contradiction between India and the USA on the interests and needs of the Indian Ocean. Japan is bent on getting rid of its colonial identity, so Japan's real purpose is to weaken China and the USA at the same time, not just China. The real ally that the USA can rely on is AUKUS.

China only needs enough oil supply, and does not have much requirements for its allies. In other words, as long as Russia remains neutral and does not join the USA. So China has never asked any country to choose the side between China and the USA.

China soon will not even require oil supply except domestic + Russian. Maybe only buy oil as reserve and to deny oil from others.

With electric vehicles making up to 70% of all vehicles by 2030 and renewable electricity gaining to 40% by that time, along with 100+ years of coal reserves, there will be 100% fuel security. likewise China is self sufficient in almost all mineral resources.

Indians in their hearts realize that they will never be allowed to grow rich... hell, they will never even be allowed to simply not starve. Obama said in 2009 - there aren't enough resources on this planet to allow Chinese and Indians to get rich. Is India going to allow their people to live in squalor and misery even as everyone around them grows fat and rich?

India today is a food exporter yet produces less food than China. What does that say?

 

[MH.Yang]

China soon will not even require oil supply except domestic + Russian. Maybe only buy oil as reserve and to deny oil from others.

With electric vehicles making up to 70% of all vehicles by 2030 and renewable electricity gaining to 40% by that time, along with 100+ years of coal reserves, there will be 100% fuel security. likewise China is self sufficient in almost all mineral resources.

Indians in their hearts realize that they will never be allowed to grow rich... hell, they will never even be allowed to simply not starve. Obama said in 2009 - there aren't enough resources on this planet to allow Chinese and Indians to get rich. Is India going to allow their people to live in squalor and misery even as everyone around them grows fat and rich?

India today is a food exporter yet produces less food than China. What does that say?

Indians have been controlled by the west through the media. In fact, Indians and Chinese are both challengers of the old order. Indians are not the beneficiaries of the old order, but the exploited. It is in the best interest of Indians to destroy the old order and rebuild the new order together with the Chinese.
We also agreed that Indians should join the BRICs and SCO. But the brains of these Indians are full of water. It's extraordinary that they went to the border to provoke us.
A group of slaves did not want to save themselves, even volunteered to die for their master. wtf!

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Indians have been controlled by the west through the media. In fact, Indians and Chinese are both challengers of the old order. Indians are not the beneficiaries of the old order, but the exploited. It is in the best interest of Indians to destroy the old order and rebuild the new order together with the Chinese.
We also agreed that Indians should join the BRICs and SCO. But the brains of these Indians are full of water. It's extraordinary that they went to the border to provoke us.

Indians are actually the most exploited people in the world, even more than Africans.

India produces only 1/3 the food that China does, yet India is one of the largest and fastest growing food exporters in the world. Both China and India have the same population, so either Indians only need 1/3 the food that Chinese do, or... their government is selling their lives for a few USD.

Which is it? Well, Indians are imprisoned for eating beef because they claim religion, yet they are one of the world's largest beef exporters.