Bloomberg: China risks repeating the mistakes of the Soviet Union in the confrontation with the United States

[F-22Raptor]

It's US going down the Soviet Union path, not China.

The US is nothing like the Soviet Union and never has been. That’s one of the laziest and weakest arguments I’ve seen from Chinese on this forum.

 

[VCheng]

The US is nothing like the Soviet Union and never has been. That’s one of the laziest and weakest arguments I’ve seen from Chinese on this forum.

Shhhh!!!!! Why tell them the reality of USA? Let them continue to underestimate and ridicule us, and let them find out the truth come crunch time.

 

[beijingwalker]

The US is nothing like the Soviet Union and never has been. That’s one of the laziest and weakest arguments I’ve seen from Chinese on this forum.

Not only from Chinese forum, google and find it out.

U.S. risks going down same path as Soviet Union, warns Putin

Putin also criticised European, U.S. criticism of police crackdown on protesters in Russia and Belarus as hypocritical.

www.euronews.com

 

[MH.Yang]

No one said anything about the US spending 20% of its GDP on defense. If the US went back to the 80s of spending 6% on defense, the US today would be spending nearly $1.4T on defense. The US is nowhere near overspending on defense. In fact I believe they should be spending $1T today.

You are no longer the USA in the 1980s. If you were the USA in the 1980s, China would not reject Obama's proposal about the G2 framework in 2009.

If Americans were still baby boomers, the Chinese would not challenge the USA so soon. But Americans today are not worthy of respect.

 

[beijingwalker]

I wonder after China's GDP overtakes US, will US still insist on engaging this stupid arm race against the world, how much money they can still splurge on the meaningless?

 

[F-22Raptor]

Shhhh!!!!! Why tell them the reality of USA? Let them continue to underestimate and ridicule us, and let them find out the truth come crunch time.

Every time I see some one pull the Soviet Union card I know their saying that out of pure emotion and anti Americanism.

 

[nang2]

You are no longer the USA in the 1980s. If you were the USA in the 1980s, China would not reject Obama's proposal about the G2 framework in 2009.

Apparently China wants to be G1 since USA is no longer qualified.

 

[MH.Yang]

Apparently China wants to be G1 since USA is no longer qualified.

We are communists. If possible, we want all countries to be G. We are also realists. If they were Americans in the 1980s, we don't mind moratorium on the ideal of communism.

 

[VCheng]

Every time I see some one pull the Soviet Union card I know their saying that out of pure emotion and anti Americanism.

Why correct them?

 

[nang2]

We are communists. If possible, we want all countries to be G. We are also realists. If they were Americans in the 1980s, we don't mind moratorium on the ideal of communism.

Great! The existence of a great capitalistic country can make you suspend the ideal of communism. What does that say about your belief?

 

[K_Bin_W]

The US is a $23T economy whose overall national wealth sits at $142T. The US is wealthier than its ever been before. Your either misinformed or wallowing in your own anti American fantasies.

You living in lala land, there are zillion sources confirming US in decline but you cannot reason with some, so I wont waste BW.

 

[Khan vilatey]

22 septembre 2021

Bloomberg Agency considered that China, which is facing a strategic dilemma amid the accumulation of military capabilities of Washington and its allies in East Asia, risks repeating the mistakes of the Soviet Union.

The agency noted that China should draw several lessons from the Soviet experience.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union three decades ago, Chinese leaders studied the causes and concluded that one of the Soviet Union’s biggest mistakes was engaging in a costly arms race with the United States that ultimately bankrupted the Soviet economy.

Bloomberg also indicated that against the background of the accumulation of US military capabilities in East Asia, Beijing faces a “similar strategic dilemma”, and therefore the attempt to catch up with US military power will require China to radically increase its defense spending, and as a result the country may find itself in the same trap that fell. in the Soviet Union.

“However, the inability to confront the US military build-up could make China more vulnerable and weaker,” she added.

​

She considered that the US decision to arm Australia with nuclear submarines is a manifestation of China’s “dilemma”, and that Washington is effectively defying Beijing by provoking a new arms race with it.

She stated that at present China enjoys an unenviable strategic position, as it is forced to confront the military capabilities of the United States and its allies in the Pacific Ocean at the same time.

According to Bloomberg, given the technological superiority of the United States as well as its weapons stockpile after decades of excessive military spending, China cannot count on winning a new arms race, noting that it is more useful for Beijing to focus on diplomacy to improve the security situation.

​

In addition, the main reason for the success of the United States in mobilizing Japan, India and Australia is the countries’ fear of China’s growing military capabilities as well as the ongoing territorial disputes, meaning that the Celestial Empire (referring to China) must strive to resolve these disputes and defuse the tension in Relationships with neighboring countries.

She noted that given the mistrust and mutual hostility had reached dangerous levels, it was equally important for China to start doing business with the United States again.

She also stated that China should learn several lessons from the Soviet experience, adding that Soviet leaders continued to invest in a losing arms race because they feared that the United States would strike first. However, these fears were completely unfounded.

She stressed that a nuclear-armed China need not fear a US attack, and that the Soviet Union succeeded in preventing the Cold War from turning into an armed conflict by cooperating closely with the United States and developing protocols and rules to prevent accidental conflicts.


Source: “Bloomberg”

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...deal-shows-china-will-lose-arms-race-with-u-s

it’s an interesting read seems the yanks are really shit scared. See the yanks ,the west , India and Australia are severely in debt.There economies are in taters and sustaining defense spending at this rate will be very hard. While China has a net positive economy with a surplus of 3-4 trillion $ and this trend is on the rise with US recovery. To keep its people happy it would need to let them buy cheap Chinese electronics and goods like iPhones and big screen tvs. Distractions, filed by lending.

The key reason why the Russians failed and the UsSR broke was the un parried defeat in Afghanistan, this broke the illusion of the Russian might , 10-15 years before that the west was on the same losing wicket in Vietnam. It was the relative strength of the US economy at the time that saved America from disintegration. There were severe concessions given to folks in the US , more freedoms and more social spending to quell the tide of unrest.

now with the complete defeats of nato in Afghanistan after a 20 year war the world is no longer looking only at the west. There are significant cracks in strategy Europe wants its own way and a recovery fueled by China while the us wants a recovery fueled by China but also keep the veneer of capability in place.

so I’m conclusion the Indian banya mindset of equating spending with capability is not really true, if this were the case india would have conquered Pakistan, paksitan would not have invaded India 4 times and would not be thinking of trying another 5-10 times till final victory, nato where only the yanks spent 2 trillion would not have lost against Taliban and Pakistan ……….India should be very fearful right now if it made an example for the west to showcase Chinese might with Pakistani support … a very painful bulcanization of india will take place

k

Very sensible and logical conclusion. China can't win from the US militarily. Now add US, Australia and India in the equation and it's a lost battle. This isn't WWII that there are "blocks" to go against each other. Add Vietnam and a much stronger Taiwan in the mix too. It is wise to sit down with the US and talk trade and business and continue military modernization at a moderate pace as there is no way it can level (let alone win) with the nations I described above. The US has essentially built an anti-China alliance but only with much bigger nations to contain it easily (India, Australia for example and then there is the US and EU). Good article giving good advise to China.


I don't think you understood the logic provided in the article. Just like the top secret submarines being provided to Australia, let's assume if the US provides -35's to India, Australia and keeps a few squadrons in Vietnam and further strengthens Taiwan, this 300 number -35 force, essentially renders the PLAAF useless.

China is a "rising" economy. Not a global economic super power. The alliance against it, is the US, UK, India, Australia, all are extremely powerful economically. How many fronts will China focus on? To deter each of these, it would need $ 75-80 billion a year, take an example, India's defense budget is around this much while the US is close to a Trillion (times four, that's $ 300 billion plus R&D for future warfare, and then countering the US, etc). This arms race is MUCH more devastating for the Chinese than it is for the other 4 nations and 4 economies, vs. one nation and only one economy, i.e. the Chinese!

mare we counting ships again, the Chinese navy today is the worlds largest navy. In 10 years when the first ssn roles out China will have 3-6 super carrier barrel groups with 40+ ssns. Will the Australian economy be able to sustain an economic blockade by the Chines for 10 years? All will thier be regime’s change when the Australian people suffer from jobless

Military spending.
US 3.4%GDP
China 1.8%GDP

$1 billion for 055， 13000 tons,
$3.7 billion for Burk3, 9800 tons

Then the conclusion is that China will be dragged down by the US arms race.

will it though the, will there be more social spending or defence spending because if the economy keeps contracting sustaining a large defence budget would no longer be possible….. This is something Biden knows and his 3.5?trillion budget would only work if he reduces defense spending………. Basic politics and economics.

Let's make a balanced equation so it makes sense to the readers. Please list:
1) China's defense budget VS.
2) USA's defense budget
3) Japan's defense budget
4) UK's defense budget
5) Australia's defense budget
6) India's defense budget

Now tell me how on earth you can even come close to starting an arms race? I've not listed Vietnam, Taiwan and EU yet!

this is such a banaya view you hold. Do you have any sense of how things work. What you are saying is the defense budget off all these countries is one and hence we can add them up , same is true for force projection ,you consider these to be one force.

Vietnam, South Korea , Taiwan or Japan will never ever get onboard with an invasion or conflict with China unless they are specifically attacked . So say india is attacked by China and Pakistan there will be no real military support from any of the the west or quad countries. This would mean large swaths of Indian territory losses in Punjab , Gujarat and northern india. At that point the question will be why would the rest of India not become smaller states as there is no Real ethnic bind between the people of say Khalistan and naga land?

k

 

[F-22Raptor]

You living in lala land, there are zillion sources confirming US in decline but you cannot reason with some, so I wont waste BW.

I give you facts and all I receive is hot air in return. China, a country with 4x the population of the US, is still years behind in GDP. That’s embarrassing, and shows how absurdly productive and wealthy the United States is.

There’s a reason why millions immigrate to the United States, because they know they can achieve their dreams here.

 

[MH.Yang]

Great! The existence of a great capitalistic country can make you suspend the ideal of communism. What does that say about your belief?

China is a civilization disguised as a country. Chinese people's concept of time is different from that of other countries.
We can make the Great Green Wall plan to plant trees in the Northwest for 100 years. Of course, we can also patiently wait for the day when communism is realized.
Johnson began to contact China in 1963, but it was not until 1972 that China was willing to hold Nixon's hand. Guess Which fool we waited for 10 years?

Yes, we are different from the Soviet Union. We don't mind embracing capitalism, and help Americans attacking the Communist Party, and want not exporting Communist values. But we are still Communists.

 

[nang2]

You living in lala land, there are zillion sources confirming US in decline but you cannot reason with some, so I wont waste BW.

US is in decline mostly in the mentality of its people, not GDP. You two are talking cross each other.

China is a civilization disguised as a country. Chinese people's concept of time is different from that of other countries.
We can make the Great Green Wall plan to plant trees in the Northwest for 100 years. Of course, we can also patiently wait for the day when communism is realized.
Johnson began to contact China in 1963, but it was not until 1972 that China was willing to hold Nixon's hand. Guess who we waited for 10 years?

If communism is not ready for the time, why wasting your limited life time practicing it? Doesn't that ruin your own life as well as those touched by communism? Much like having sex and forcing others to have sex long before reaching puberty.