Blast in Westridge, Rawalpindi

[Bhaarat]

I was under the impression that I was having a debate with a mature person who has some knowledge over the current situation.

Don't tell me what mosque that was and the officers killed in that attack. I have lived in Westridge and Maj.General Bilal omer being my fathers junior in Armoured Corps had family ties with them.

Spare us with your conspiracy theories of sectarian differences, you Indians will paint it with any color you want.

Are you saying the mosque was not a shia mosque?

 

[Barrett]

Are you saying the mosque was not a shia mosque?

Shia or sunni .... it was least of their (TTP) concerns

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Well said. As I said previously these people were trained by PA during soviet war. TTP did not exist then. They were called mujahideens.

that's right...because foreigners had invaded their country. The only country in the region, of course, which encouraged the invasion was the indians

They have links with PA/ISI. They have sympathisers as well.

where is your proof that TTP has links with ISI or PA? We have links with certain pro-taleban militants, and in fact U.S. needs us to establish contact with them as we are doing. The idea is to weed out the ones who put down their weapons. If they put down their weapons, then there is room for compromise.

Again, mere statements. The same US wants us to share their bodybags in Afghanistan.

well, whatever it is -- indian army has no familiarity with the area, doesnt have the same resources as the NATO armies in Afghanistan, and doesnt have the language component either.

i highly doubt indians would send soldiers over to Afghanistan as their disadvantage would be felt as soon as they stepped foot in the country.

But we are happy to build roads, create positive image of ourselves and wait for appropriate time in future.

as are we. It is in our interests for Afghanistan to stablilize. It is not in our interests to have an enemy country brainwash people to carry out anti-Pakistani activities or even spread propoganda. I believe we wont let it happen.

We must not.

And you will present the evidence to?

US? As if US wouldnt know what we do in Afghanistan....

i was saying we should present the evidence...how it is taken it debatable.

We are interested in securing Pakistan and killing the enemies who are getting support from across the border. What happens in Afghanistan is their own business and not our concern --though a stable Afghanistan is in our interests, given the porous and rugged nature of the areas around Durand Line.

rest assured, all anti-Pakistan elements will be eliminated....no matter how long it takes.



my advice to indian establishment would be to shut down those "consulallates" effective immediately. Otherwise, further action will need to be taken I think. All options are on the table at this point, since the stakes are high.

that's my view.

 

[Bhaarat]

I am answering only this part because rest of your post was mostly posturing.

my advice to indian establishment would be to shut down those "consulallates" effective immediately. Otherwise, further action will need to be taken I think. All options are on the table at this point, since the stakes are high.

Well, India is ready too, mate. And there is no question of closing the consulates. Personally, I would want to see another bloody attack on Indian embassy in Kabul(sad, but thats how geopolitics is). That would make our govt wake up send the jawans on an adventure to Kabul. The only problem is command and control. The yankees are not ready to give us a separate command and we cannot be cannon fodder to their devious agendas. So, a big attack would give us the window to demand a separate command to protect our interests in Afghansitan. We dont want to lose that area to yankees.

 

[Bhaarat]

Shia or sunni .... it was least of their (TTP) concerns

You are wrong, regardless of your personal connections.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I Personally, I would want to see another bloody attack on Indian embassy in Kabul(sad, but thats how geopolitics is).

Sure thing.

I don't know how many expendable diplomats/attaches india has to "spare"

That would make our govt wake up send the jawans on an adventure to Kabul. The only problem is command and control. The yankees are not ready to give us a separate command and we cannot be cannon fodder to their devious agendas. So, a big attack would give us the window to demand a separate command to protect our interests in Afghansitan. We dont want to lose that area to yankees.

"yankees" are already talking about withdrawal in July 2011 and you're talking about sending troops.

india has the right to do so, but i dont think the outlook would be very....favourable.

Dont you think? Fighting is in the nature of the Afghans, they have time on their side. I dont know if same can be said about foreign forces there.


There's only one solution to the problem.

 

[Barrett]

I am answering only this part because rest of your post was mostly posturing.



Well, India is ready too, mate. And there is no question of closing the consulates. Personally, I would want to see another bloody attack on Indian embassy in Kabul(sad, but thats how geopolitics is). That would make our govt wake up send the jawans on an adventure to Kabul. The only problem is command and control. The yankees are not ready to give us a separate command and we cannot be cannon fodder to their devious agendas. So, a big attack would give us the window to demand a separate command to protect our interests in Afghansitan. We dont want to lose that area to yankees.

First the British then the Soviets and now the yankees are fleeing the area very soon. You seriously want your Jawans on an adventure to Kabul ?
Your biggest concerns right now should be the survival of the consulates once the Yankees flee.
Just a suggestion : You still have 18 months to pack your bags, don't waste any time

 

[Barrett]

You are wrong, regardless of your personal connections.

Might be your wish but far from reality.

 

[Bhaarat]

Sure thing.

I don't know how many expendable diplomats/attaches india has to "spare"

I guess, nation is supreme. But that is my personal thing, not any organisation's wish. Dont confuse it.

"yankees" are already talking about withdrawal in July 2011 and you're talking about sending troops.

And you expect them to stand by their word?!

After all the political, military and economic resources they have put, we can safely expect them to stay there for another two decades. Bloody US is clever, boss. Once they have Afghanistan in control, it spells doom for us. Then they will start harping over Kashmir. And if somehow they get hold of Kashmir(through a proxy), then they will simultaneously control India, China, and Russia.

India's moment is now and we must capitalize even if we have to take some hits in the process, we must be ready.

india has the right to do so, but i dont think the outlook would be very....favourable.

Sure, we must be ready to gut it out. Our forces are expert on COIN operations, we could be more successful than others that have tried.

Dont you think? Fighting is in the nature of the Afghans, they have time on their side. I dont know if same can be said about foreign forces there.

Nah, thats all BS. Afghans have been subjugated in the past. The most recent example would be Maharaja Ranjit Singh. India has done it in past, we can do so now. Afghanistan is our backyard and our highway to central asian resources, we cannot lose it to US or China.

There's only one solution to the problem.

And that is leaving them at your mercy, eh?! That aint happening, sir.

 

[Bhaarat]

First the British then the Soviets and now the yankees are fleeing the area very soon. You seriously want your Jawans on an adventure to Kabul ?
Your biggest concerns right now should be the survival of the consulates once the Yankees flee.
Just a suggestion : You still have 18 months to pack your bags, don't waste any time

Kid, I suggest you look beyond your personal acquaintances and newspaper headlines to understand geopolitics.

 

[iPhone]

I am answering only this part because rest of your post was mostly posturing.



Well, India is ready too, mate. And there is no question of closing the consulates. Personally, I would want to see another bloody attack on Indian embassy in Kabul(sad, but thats how geopolitics is). That would make our govt wake up send the jawans on an adventure to Kabul. The only problem is command and control. The yankees are not ready to give us a separate command and we cannot be cannon fodder to their devious agendas. So, a big attack would give us the window to demand a separate command to protect our interests in Afghansitan. We dont want to lose that area to yankees.

wow, man you really sound like a warmonger. Are you a soldier? I'm guessing, no. That's why it's so easy for you to say, yeah start the war, of course you're not the one fighting, you'll be doing the fighting from your computer tucked away safely in your living room while your innocent jawans die. Ask them if they want to go in Afghanistan and fight the taliban, then we'll see.

 

[Barrett]

Kid, I suggest you look beyond your personal acquaintances and newspaper headlines to understand geopolitics.

I'm old enough to be your father, son.

 

[PAFAce]

Well, India is ready too, mate. And there is no question of closing the consulates. Personally, I would want to see another bloody attack on Indian embassy in Kabul(sad, but thats how geopolitics is). That would make our govt wake up send the jawans on an adventure to Kabul. The only problem is command and control. The yankees are not ready to give us a separate command and we cannot be cannon fodder to their devious agendas. So, a big attack would give us the window to demand a separate command to protect our interests in Afghansitan. We dont want to lose that area to yankees.

Talk about suicide. India does not have an expeditionary force, read any military treatise, you will find that what you are suggesting is an extremely naive thing to do. As far as Generalship goes, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't the next COAS. India can not fight a war away from its borders, which is what you will be doing by sending your "jawans" there. And then imagine what the Taliban, who so far have stayed clear of your land, will do to you for invading their lands. Remember, unlike the ISAF, Pakistan and India both have to remain in this region. We can't cut our losses and run.

You clearly have not been following what is going on in Afghanistan. You will be sending your jawans to massacre. But, I am not surprised at all; you are, after all, saying that you "want" another "bloody attack" on Indians in Afghanistan. Half the Indians would want to reprimand you for saying something like this, I'm amazed none of the gung-ho virtual protectors of India has showed up yet. Had this been said by a Pakistani, uff, this thread would have been run over with cries of agony and disdain.

Summary: India will not be prepared to lose soldiers for something as measly as a Consulate in Afghanistan, especially when there are ISAF forces there to look after their interests. Your best bet to maintain influence in Afghanistan once the ISAF leave is by supporting the presently established corrupt, drug-trading, weak government that has little to no support amongst the populace.

PS: India is ready for what? A war with Pakistan or a war with the Taliban? Have you been watching too many movies recently?

my advice to indian establishment would be to shut down those "consulallates" effective immediately. Otherwise, further action will need to be taken I think. All options are on the table at this point, since the stakes are high.

Why should India close its consulates in Afghanistan? What right to we have to suggest that? India and Afghanistan are two sovereign nations, and they have every right to establish embassies, consulates, missions, etc.

I believe you meant to state this:
Stop all support for terrorism inside Pakistan emanating from your consulates inside Afghanistan. You can say this is payback for Kashmir, however you want to justify it, simple fact remains, once the bodyguards in ISAF uniforms leave, it'll be just you and us. If anybody has had any success fighting bloody-nosed Cold Wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan, it's us.

 

[Bhaarat]

Talk about suicide. India does not have an expeditionary force, read any military treatise, you will find that what you are suggesting is an extremely naive thing to do. As far as Generalship goes, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't the next COAS. India can not fight a war away from its borders, which is what you will be doing by sending your "jawans" there. And then imagine what the Taliban, who so far have stayed clear of your land, will do to you for invading their lands. Remember, unlike the ISAF, Pakistan and India both have to remain in this region. We can't cut our losses and run.

Under all the rhetoric, you have made no worthwhile points. India is not going to fight a war, India is going to send its armies(a possibility under certain conditions that I have alluded to), to Afghanistan to protect our interests separately from the mission of NATO/US. You get my point, I was wanting our guys to have a separate command so that we could pick and choose what we do there and not be directed by US.

As for Taliban invading our lands, than be rest assured that Indian forces have adequately prepared to take on such challenges. No problems whatsoever.

You clearly have not been following what is going on in Afghanistan. You will be sending your jawans to massacre. But, I am not surprised at all; you are, after all, saying that you "want" another "bloody attack" on Indians in Afghanistan. Half the Indians would want to reprimand you for saying something like this, I'm amazed none of the gung-ho virtual protectors of India has showed up yet. Had this been said by a Pakistani, uff, this thread would have been run over with cries of agony and disdain.

So, whats your point, apart from your emotional appeal to 'other indians' to reprimand me?

If your point was that India would face a challenging task in Afghanistan, then I say, we have no other choice.

Summary: India will not be prepared to lose soldiers for something as measly as a Consulate in Afghanistan, especially when there are ISAF forces there to look after their interests. Your best bet to maintain influence in Afghanistan once the ISAF leave is by supporting the presently established corrupt, drug-trading, weak government.

The consulate is an excuse mate. I think you are not following.

PS: India is ready for what? A war with Pakistan or a war with the Taliban? Have you been watching too many movies recently?

Frankly, after reading this part, I think I have wasted my time answering this post.

 

[Bhaarat]

I'm old enough to be your father, son.

Then you are really old my dear. Try not to lose your mind to senility.

---------- Post added at 05:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 AM ----------

wow, man you really sound like a warmonger. Are you a soldier? I'm guessing, no. That's why it's so easy for you to say, yeah start the war, of course you're not the one fighting, you'll be doing the fighting from your computer tucked away safely in your living room while your innocent jawans die. Ask them if they want to go in Afghanistan and fight the taliban, then we'll see.

Indian soldiers are ready to do their job, mate, as and when required. Dont worry.