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Blast at Shalimar Plaza, Rawalpindi

i have to confess .. that this current spate of attacks on PA initially gave me a sweet feeling of revenge .

However last week's attack on peshawar was far too brutal even for my mind which - i regret to admit was till then grossly desensitized to any misery accross the border.

But now i apologise for this and wish taht the relatives of the dead and injured can some how find happiness in their life.

My heartfelt condolences to each and every one touched by grief and may god help us all.
 
i have to confess .. that this current spate of attacks on PA initially gave me a sweet feeling of revenge .

However last week's attack on peshawar was far too brutal even for my mind which - i regret to admit was till then grossly desensitized to any misery accross the border.

But now i apologise for this and wish taht the relatives of the dead and injured can some how find happiness in their life.

My heartfelt condolences to each and every one touched by grief and may god help us all.



Easy said than Done :disagree:

we Pakistanis leave too many Things on God, We need to do something by our own Hands as well
 
Zia is Dead isn't it??

But the Problem is we are Alive ranting about Past won't change anything

people we need to understand that these beasts are out for Blood
lets talk to them in their language, I know we all are very Frustrated bcoz of recent situations, those Idiots want Chaos , when there will be Chaos things will go bad & our great nation will be pushed down the Drain.....
Control your emotions, We need unity , Blood is Flowing on Streets & we are still Don't have a "consensus", Don't become Hostage of "religion", Don't let yourselves be Induced by Terror & fear
& those who still Support TTP have got some kinda mental dis order, No one with sense can these Killings...

We need to Exterminate the race of these beasts before they exterminate us, No Mercy of these Thugs

:pakistan:

Use of power is short term solution against terrorism , if GOP really want to up root terrorism then they have to first do operation in national assmbly where these days NRO is under discussion , how to provide corrupt leadership legal cover.

We need to increase our education budget instead of defence budget.
 
Use of power is short term solution against terrorism , if GOP really want to up root terrorism then they have to first do operation in national assmbly where these days NRO is under discussion , how to provide corrupt leadership legal cover.

We need to increase our education budget instead of defence budget.

Mr they are out for Blood, There is no way we can Convince them by talks, We have seen the results of talks

Lets talk to them in their language....

I m pretty much Sure NRo won't be passed in Assembly

Defence Budget has got its own importance
 
I personally believe that India is not involved in it and other extremists related activities in Pakistan. here are the reasons:

1. the surge in extremist ideology in Pakistan will definitely have repurcussions for india as it hosts some 160 million muslims. they know it will not stop in pakistan.

2. Indian counselates in Afghanistan doesnt mean to aid Taliban. they are there to create its influence. they are helping Afghan governemnt. if they were abetting Taliban then the US, NATO and Afghan government would definitely do something. they are helping Afghan government. and its in their best interests to see Taliban not come to power. otherwise they will lose all their clout.

3. India and other countries do not defrentiate between good or bad taliban the way we do. to them every extremist is a threat. so there is way india would help pakistani taliban and not afghan.

4. it is not in the interest of India to see pakistan in the hands of extremists or in civil war.

5. for us india is number one enemy but india has other things on its minds. It has big adversary like China. it is an emerging economic power. it wants to play positive international role so that can get UN permanent membership. its focussed on economy. they have other priorities and their abetting Taliban collide with that.

6. India is not the mollycoddle child of US. if india was doing something fishy, US will definitely raise it. pl dont counter of here with RAW, CIA and Mossad nexus theory of conspirators here.

7. India may abet baluchistan separatists to settle scores with Pakistan or put pressure on it to stop supporting kashmiris but not Taliban.

there are other factors too but i dont wanna go into detail. my point here is that blaming all this stuff on india will not do any good for us. As Tsun Zu said, we should know our enemy. and our enemy is our brothers who we brainwashed once and now they are biting us. lets not me misdirected by so called patriots who want to get approval from public by demonizing india, israel or america. they are doing no good by misleading the nation.

you deserve all the credit for such a level headed analysis in an situation iam sure is quite emotional and where even the composed often loose their heads.

Let me add some more to it

The present attacks by TTP is due to its current operational strategy i.e hitting the nearest enemy first.

Inspite of this it makes no sense for india to support Taliban or its imitations simply because we know that the axe they are grinding in the skirmishes with PA is ultimately for us. For TTP and Taliban( of afghan proper ) india is the second most hated enemy after USA .. even PA (whom they consider to be munafiq) will always come a distant third .

A simple glance at history should leave no doubt -

* At the height of afghan civil war we supported NA which is the sworn enemy of Taliban.

* The collective trauma and humiliation suffered by indian people and govt respectively during the hijacking of IC-814 (release of terrorists and throat slitting of Rupin katyal ) can never be forgotten and forgiven. If an indian politician inspite of this is responsible for any double dealing with taliban at this stage (even for short term strategic gains) he can kiss his career good bye .

* The bitter experiences of indian govt with brindanwale and prabhakaran in the 1980s and the experience of pakistan with fundamentalist groups till date has made it all the more clear that using terror groups is like dealing with poisonous snakes which ultimately bite the hand which pats it. IMHO India cut off all its support to fundementalist grps 15 years back in line with its global ambitions and never looked back.

* In a most recent incident and also immediately post 26/11, TTP claimed that they will fight along side PA against india in any war which may break out.

Therefore it makes no sense to say that india is supporting taliban or TTP . India neither supports them or even funds them in any way - because we know that every paisa spent on taliban will be used against us ultimately.

Coming to the folk who say that TTP can in no way function without external support they are all conveniently forgetting the long access taliban in afghan and FATA had to sophisticated weapons and explosives from

* abandoned soviet ammo depots
* ISI & CIA funded arms supplied & stockpiled over decades.
* The local weapons manufacturing and selling shops of FATA.
* The long prevalent gun culture of FATA

Its plain to see that TTP have all the weapons they need and can make more if they want with their drug money. They are a completely self sustaining terrorist org with little need for external support.

All the finger pointing by the PA to india in S.W is simply to divert the attention from their mistakes over the past 3 decades.
 
Pardon my ignorance but i would like to know is there any section of society, Party or organization other then TTP who is mute, not condemning and playing safe.

I mean in this whole thread none of Pakistani member has raised this issue that these Terrorists are getting local support and it is so unbelievable that Pakistan defence agencies are not having a single clue for their network. I am expecting a very deep conspiracy or they are too scared to uproot. If it is not a conspiracy then What i can see is there is a great confusion in the minds of Pakistanis to determine; what is their national interest is? To whom they want to save and for whom they want to fight.

When US was supported full cooperation for War on terror a national policy based on national interests was required promptly and it was required to be upfront with US on all requisite demands while negotiation.

Pakistan foreign policy is a sorry story of fraud and frustration.

To ease some pressure one can give benefit of doubt to Pakistan that post 9/11USA's prompt aggression on Afghanistan didn't provided enough time to Pakistan to compile its national interests.
Also Pakistan was expecting this war to be very short and ineffectual.
The third factor which contributed for this mess was pakistan's irrational animosity with his bigger neighbour. Cause every opportunity to serve/help his friend US was some what used to channelized to refine its parity with India thus the whole efforts of war on terror was half hearted and over manipulative(which is fatal error to fight any war).

So coming on this topic; This half hearted fought war exposed divide of Pakistan society which was hidden from normal Urban Pakistani and gave a wrong message to these parties that Pakistan is not sincere either with US or these fundamentalist forces proliferating in their strongholds etc.

The level of hatred can be seen the way these suicidal attacks are been conducted and people here are not addressing the cause of hatred and are again downplaying this divide by making irrational assumptions.

Very Grievous!!
May God give Pakistanis the power to recognise its real enemy.
 
Afghanistan was a huge weapons dump post Soviets - all those weapons smuggled in to fight the Soviets had to go somewhere correct?

As did the various Mujahideen who had fought the Soviets - there were plenty of trained Afghans and plenty willing to train.

Afghans like you suffer from the same problem as some Pakistanis and Indians here - point the finger of blame everywhere except yourselves.

Yes, you are right afghanistan has large number of weapons, but weapon on its own cant tell us the taliban didnt need anything else. they started from some point and from the border between pakistan and afghanistan(nowhere else) starting point is very imporant, feeding one man is a big task let alone large number of fighters., secondly they couldnt use their amunitions indifintley unless they got fresh supplies, weapon is understandable but not amunitions, where did they get the money from, pakistan was the first country recognized them?, I personally witnessed large number of pakistani fighters in afghanistan, they also were in places where afghans were not allowed to go. Unlike what you said about pointing my fingers to the others, I have always pointed out our own failures shortcomings as well, we shuold also be blamed for what we are now, but those who took advantage of a nation which is largely illiterate and struck with unimaginable level of poverty must also be condemned. they took advantage of our situation and they even exploited the jihad during the russian times against us, i wish we never fought the russians, the only sufferers are poor afghan people.
 
Are you willing to renounce the concept of jihad entirely, then?

Your monkey business will not work here.

Begin by giving us a definition of Jihad.

By definition I mean:

*****

Dictionary: def·i·ni·tion (dĕf'ə-nĭsh'ən)
1.
a.A statement conveying fundamental character.
b.A statement of the meaning of a word, phrase, or term, as in a dictionary entry.

*****
 
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"Begin by giving us a definition of Jihad."

Why should it be up to me, a non-Muslim, to define a concept in Islam?
 
"Begin by giving us a definition of Jihad."

Why should it be up to me, a non-Muslim, to define a concept in Islam?

You are asking us, Muslims, whether or not we should renounce a concept in Islam.

In an ideal world one would expect a serious individual enquiring about the rejection of a concept to at least know about that which he is enquiring; yet we do not live in an ideal world, we live in world full of circus clowns, ruffians and fools.

My question was merely a ploy to help me deduce to which category you belong.

Please answer the Question.
 
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Most victims defence officials

RAWALPINDI: Majority of those killed in suicide bomb blast near National Bank of Pakistan (NBP) branch at Shalimar Plaza are military personnel or employees of the Ministry for Defence. Most victims are either retired or in service employees of the army and the ministry who came to the bank to draw their salaries or pensions. Eyewitnesses said a large number of people were queued up at the Cash Counter of the bank when a motorcyclist came and blew himself up. They said women and children were also among the victims. staff report

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
"- expect a serious individual enquiring about the rejection of a concept to at least know about that which he is enquiring"

Nonsense, if I'm asking about whether you will give up elevators to walk up stairs instead, do I have to know how an elevator works? All I need to know is that an elevator gets one from here to there. Similarly, it is enough for me to know that jihad can be considered an element of a Muslim's journey through life to enquire to a Muslim whether or not he intends to take such a road, what ever it is. And I did receive such an answer.

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

"- expect a serious individual enquiring about the rejection of a concept to at least know about that which he is enquiring"

Nonsense, if I'm asking about whether you will give up elevators to walk up stairs instead, do I have to know how an elevator works? All I need to know is that an elevator gets one from here to there. Similarly, it is enough for me to know that jihad can be considered an element of a Muslim's journey through life to enquire to a Muslim whether or not he intends to take such a road, what ever it is. And I did receive such an answer.
 
I personally believe that India is not involved in it and other extremists related activities in Pakistan. here are the reasons:

1. the surge in extremist ideology in Pakistan will definitely have repurcussions for india as it hosts some 160 million muslims. they know it will not stop in pakistan.

2. Indian counselates in Afghanistan doesnt mean to aid Taliban. they are there to create its influence. they are helping Afghan governemnt. if they were abetting Taliban then the US, NATO and Afghan government would definitely do something. they are helping Afghan government. and its in their best interests to see Taliban not come to power. otherwise they will lose all their clout.

3. India and other countries do not defrentiate between good or bad taliban the way we do. to them every extremist is a threat. so there is way india would help pakistani taliban and not afghan.

4. it is not in the interest of India to see pakistan in the hands of extremists or in civil war.

5. for us india is number one enemy but india has other things on its minds. It has big adversary like China. it is an emerging economic power. it wants to play positive international role so that can get UN permanent membership. its focussed on economy. they have other priorities and their abetting Taliban collide with that.

6. India is not the mollycoddle child of US. if india was doing something fishy, US will definitely raise it. pl dont counter of here with RAW, CIA and Mossad nexus theory of conspirators here.

7. India may abet baluchistan separatists to settle scores with Pakistan or put pressure on it to stop supporting kashmiris but not Taliban.

there are other factors too but i dont wanna go into detail. my point here is that blaming all this stuff on india will not do any good for us. As Tsun Zu said, we should know our enemy. and our enemy is our brothers who we brainwashed once and now they are biting us. lets not me misdirected by so called patriots who want to get approval from public by demonizing india, israel or america. they are doing no good by misleading the nation.

You just read out the thoughts that i had in my mind. I am of the opinion that, the differences we have is of only Kashmir, and we should be mature and sane enough not to hate and judge an entire nation with one one difference of opinion we have.

And yes death to these terrorists.And we still can expect many more such cowardly attacks before their supply lines dry out. Pakistan is moving towards the right direction, no matter what many terrorsit supporters say, this resolve by pak establishment and army should never be diluted.
 
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