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Blast at Shalimar Plaza, Rawalpindi

why not.....why not, because its NOT EVIDENCE :hitwall:
Then what is evidence, if the leadership of the Taliban claiming these acts, again and again, is not enough?

If suicide bomber training centers are discovered, and children rescued, who point to Taliban and other extremists organizations brainwashing them to blow themselves up is that not enough?

If suicide bombers ready to blow themselves up are caught, and point to being trained by the TTP and other Islamic extremist groups is that not enough?

If these suicide bomber training centers are found in territory previously controlled by the Swat Taliban and the TTP and others is that enough?

If handlers, local leaders and smugglers are caught, who point to managing operations (safe houses, target selection and reconnaissance, weapons and explosives transport and storage) are those not enough?

All of the above has happened not once, but time and time again - we keep catching them and the story is the same, and still you say, oh I don't know, could be Tinkerbell!

This is precisely why these bombings keep happening - because people like you are out searching for a thumb sized fairy in a miniskirt that is carrying out these attacks, instead of ratting out suspicious activity in our own neighborhoods by these takfiris.
 
Then what is evidence, if the leadership of the Taliban claiming these acts, again and again, is not enough?

If suicide bomber training centers are discovered, and children rescued, who point to Taliban and other extremists organizations brainwashing them to blow themselves up is that not enough?

If suicide bombers ready to blow themselves up are caught, and point to being trained by the TTP and other Islamic extremist groups is that not enough?

If these suicide bomber training centers are found in territory previously controlled by the Swat Taliban and the TTP and others is that enough?

If handlers, local leaders and smugglers are caught, who point to managing operations (safe houses, target selection and reconnaissance, weapons and explosives transport and storage) are those not enough?

All of the above has happened not once, but time and time again - we keep catching them and the story is the same, and still you say, oh I don't know, could be Tinkerbell!

This is precisely why these bombings keep happening - because people like you are out searching for a thumb sized fairy in a miniskirt that is carrying out these attacks, instead of ratting out suspicious activity in our own neighborhoods by these takfiris.



well look, i have not personally seen these stories you allude to, and i would like to know more to assess the info myself.


but i agree, its the handlers who are the issue and we seem to know least about them, the stupid illiterate impoverished jihadi is the least interesting and crucial aspect about these bombs, imo.


where do the handlers get the resources from?

who gives them their mandate?

why are we unable to stop them if we know so much about them?

what do they want or hope to achieve?


you seem to hold an illogical middle ground of where we apparently know so much about these TTP types people but apparently not enough to stop pakistani's getting butchered on an unprecedented scale, sorry to say your logic seems faulty and clearly not useful, maybe time for a rethink or critical assessment of perceived wisdoms??

i think so, that is all i am asking.
 
well look, i have not personally seen these stories you allude to, and i would like to know more to assess the info myself.
What planet have you been on if you don't have a clue about these events? Too engrossed in Takfiri propaganda? Please do a google or browse the Rah-e-rast thread. There have been hundreds of arrests, where these details have emerged, and there are I believe even a few videos where the children rescued from these suicide bomber training centers talk about their lives before they were rescued, and others where they are being trained in FATA.
but i agree, its the handlers who are the issue and we seem to know least about them, the stupid illiterate impoverished jihadi is the least interesting and crucial aspect about these bombs, imo.

where do the handlers get the resources from?
See the taliban funding thread - extortion from locals, illegal taxes, cuts from mining and timer businesses, drugs, smuggling, donations from abroad, especially Middle East.

who gives them their mandate?
The Takfiri leadership of the Taliban, Al Qaeda, laskhar-e-Janghvi etc.
why are we unable to stop them if we know so much about them?
Because our LEA's are not quite up to the job and we continue to have terrorist sympathizers and others who refuse to see the guilt of these parties and therefore do not cooperate with the LEA's. That plus the fact that these groups have enjoyed safe havens in FATA, in remote and desolate regions where there is little government control, which we are trying to rectify now.

what do they want or hope to achieve?
Implementation of a barbaric and medieval regime where our mothers, sisters, daughters and wives will be whipped in public, forced to be illiterate, and be treated like animals. They intend to impose a system that will take us to the dark ages.

you seem to hold an illogical middle ground of where we apparently know so much about these TTP types people but apparently not enough to stop pakistani's getting butchered on an unprecedented scale, sorry to say your logic seems faulty and clearly not useful, maybe time for a rethink or critical assessment of perceived wisdoms??
We do know a lot - that is why we attacked their safe havens first in Swat, and now in South Waziristan.

There is however no magic wand to wave that will eliminate the terrorists - at its root the problem is an ideology, and so long as people like you refuse to accept the clear evidence about the guilt of these Islamic extremists, and people do not cooperate with LEA's to *** them out and take a stance against them, such attacks will continue.

Intelligence requires cooperation from average citizens.

There is nothing wrong with my logic - it is the mindset of people like you that prevents Pakistan from eliminating this threat.
 
"taliban was simply brought and created by ISI and some people think Saudis and Americans also had a hand in their creation in Afghanistan in 1990s..."

You are close but EVER so wrong...

...and that is all the difference in the world.

The afghan taliban are a completely indigenous and SPONTANEOUS movement that arose out of Urozgan Province and then Kandahar city at the hands of Omar and others.

They had origins, of sorts, with the afghan mujahideen but had returned to their homes following the end of the Afghan-Soviet war. It was during the breakdown of general civil order during the Afghan civil war that the taliban movement began to emerge and gain notice.

At the time, 1994, the ISI was deeply invested in promoting Gulbuddin Hekmatyar as their protege in opposition to the Rabbani government then in Afghanistan. As the taliban movement gained momentum, however, the ISI switched its support to ride the winning horse.

To this day the Hekmatyar clique do not adhere to the taliban objectives and Omar/Hekmatyar are not personally close. They are rivals as is Haqqani to a lesser degree.

Thanks.:usflag:


and when did i deny that the taliban are nationals of afghanistan? they are, but they were helped and equiped by pakitan, Nasirullah Babur was the man who organized things for them. the Taliban are as puppet as the mujahideen and the communists were.
 
This is mainly a 3 dimensional war, military, intelligence, and politics………..military and intelligence agencies are doing their job as best as they can, but its political front where we are lacking………..US presence in Pakistan, Indian involvement, front line state in WAT, weapons and money trafficking through Afghanistan……….development and rehabilitation of IDPs etc. etc.……….all these issues are related to GOP and GOP is responsible for dealing all these matters………..my point is our security agencies and army is definitely aware that what is the reality of TTP, what their real motive and strength is, who are using and who are funding them and who are directly or indirectly involved etc., but as long as there is no political will, army cannot take action on its own regarding above-mentioned issues as it will creat chaos in the country…………!!!!!..........the main thing which army is doing right now is destroying the weapon (TTP)……..the logic is simple……destroy the weapon……destroy the enemy.
 
may Allah bless the departed souls and their families.
 
Rawalpindi attacked

An explosion occurred on Rawalpindi’s busy Mall Road on Monday. At least 30 people were killed, while more than 45 were reportedly injured. According to reports, a suicide bomber blew himself up in the vicinity of the busy Mall Road, in the high-security area of Rawalpindi Cantt. Major hotels, including the Pearl Continental, as well as other important government and army installations are located in the area where the blast occurred.–AP & AFP Photos.









 
The terror disconnect

There’s some mighty disconnect between what is happening in our cities today and what we are not doing to stop it, as one more landmark in what is now the blighted Rawalpindi Cantonment is targeted by terrorists.

The Shalimar Hotel, just off The Mall, is the more earthly twin of the glitzy Pearl Continental located across the road, which skirts off to the General Headquarters, the Combined Military Hospital, the fabled Lal Kurti Bazaar, and on to the once high-profile Harley Street. In the opposite direction, just across The Mall sits the old presidency building, now a women’s university, and as such another high-profile target. Going west on The Mall is also the Flashman’s Hotel, another city landmark, located at a stone’s throw from the Shalimar. If this heart of the garrison headquarter city is not safe from terror attacks, then you may well ask what is? And what is Pindi Cantonment coming to?

Amidst all the mayhem that is being wrought on this once peaceful and serene neighbourhood, it is pertinent to ask what the residents must be feeling. The cantonment is also home to a number of ace educational institutions, which now apparently lie in a war zone. How are the parents of schoolchildren coping with these spectacles of horror that are so wily menacing?

This is the fourth deadly assault on the twin cities since Oct 5 last month, when the UN-affiliated food organisation’s offices were attacked in Islamabad killing five people, including a foreign national. Then came the daring, 24-hour siege of the army headquarters in Pindi on Oct 10-11, which left 20 dead. Terrorists claimed another eight lives on Oct 20 when an Islamic university was attacked in Islamabad.

Peshawar has for long been in the bull’s eye because it is more accessible to terrorists emanating from the adjacent tribal areas. Lahore, too, has borne the brunt of suicide bombings and sieges by terrorists. Yet Pindi and Islamabad stand apart for their targeting. The twin cities are home to the government of Pakistan and the armed forces’ top brass. We must also not forget that the twin cities are also home to the slighted Lal Masjid brigade of the July 2007 military operation fame, and its avowed, young and brainwashed breed of suicide bombers, who were let go of rather nonchalantly, along with their burqa-clad mentor, the firebrand cleric Abdul Aziz. The killer cleric continues to enjoy the sympathy of the reasonably powerful in the capital and beyond.

Still, it would be unfair to point the finger at just one misguided madrassah and its brand of fanatics who have a history of nurturing extremists — and getting away with it. Blame should also be assigned to their known well-wishers who bailed them out in the aftermath of the Lal Masjid operation. Remember Chaudhry Shujaat offering the mullah and his supporters more than a shoulder to cry on? The PML-Q, then the ruling party, its chief and his cousin Pervaiz Elahi, who was then the chief minister of Punjab, gave what they called the ‘victims’ of Lal Masjid life-long scholarships and sustenance allowances, ostensibly from their own pockets. One of their deputies, Sheikh Rashid, the proud son of Rawalpindi, kept mum on the whole issue even though he bore his total allegiance to General Musharraf who had ordered the storming of Lal Masjid.

A few weeks and a number of court hearings later, even the cleric Abdul Aziz was released on bail, when he should have been tried under a military court and dispensed speedy justice on the basis of his hate-mongering and waging war against the state that resulted in the killing of many.

But not all rot lies in the bad past over which Musharraf presided. The media’s role by and large remains sympathetic towards an ideology which continues to bring death and destruction to our cities. Analysts and TV anchors don’t tire of voicing their favourite solution of offering the extremists dialogue instead of the bullet to end their killing spree. The media also continues to insist this is not our war — not even just yet. Their defiant heroes remain politicians like Imran Khan and leaders of the Jamaat-i-Islami who have now vowed to raise no less than a ‘lashkar’ to oppose the National Reconciliation Ordinance in the streets of Pakistan if extremists’ violence allows them to do so.

Then there is Nawaz Sharif and his PML-N lackeys on the other hand: no word of unqualified condemnation of terrorists ever crosses their lips. As for the PPP, there is now little to stop the ‘relief’ that its broad-based NRO in its existing, amended form, promises to all killers and crooks, including the terrorists, despite the fact that they have their booby traps and suicide bombers killing innocent people in our cities and hardcore, armed terrorists fighting the army in Fata. Is there any sense left anymore in what we are doing to ourselves?

As Rawlpindi, Islamabad, Peshawar, and Lahore simmer with fear and tension, and Karachi and Quetta watch in disgust, bracing themselves to be the next potential targets, internecine, petty politics is all our leaders have time for. The biggest culprit present among us today is the lingering and shocking state of denial, despite the presence of the evil amidst us that is killing and maiming as many as it can on a given day.

American aid, the NRO, the street protest, the call for a mid-term election, even the crippling power and economic crisis can wait. What cannot wait for the public backing expressed through their leaders is the war on terror that is being fought in our cities today. This is a war we cannot afford to lose; it’s time we owned and fought it with full power of the state and the people behind it. After all, lofty, elusive ideals like democracy and rule of law cannot be safeguarded or held dear by doing nothing to stop the death and destruction that is all around us today.

The Dawn Blog Blog Archive The terror disconnect
 
"they were helped and equiped by pakitan..."

Sir,

That is NOT what you wrote in your original comments. Please read your below comments closely.

"taliban was simply brought and created by ISI and some people think Saudis and Americans also had a hand in their creation in Afghanistan in 1990s..."

Do you see the difference now? CREATED is FAR different from simply helping and equipping. Please try to use language CAREFULLY so that your intent is clear.

Words matter.

Thanks.
 
"they were helped and equiped by pakitan..."

Sir,

That is NOT what you wrote in your original comments. Please read your below comments closely.

"taliban was simply brought and created by ISI and some people think Saudis and Americans also had a hand in their creation in Afghanistan in 1990s..."

Do you see the difference now? CREATED is FAR different from simply helping and equipping. Please try to use language CAREFULLY so that your intent is clear.

Words matter.

Thanks.

i dont even take the word created back!! They were created, helped, and brought to afghanistan. they were religiouse students in pakistan and from that point pakistan designed the project Taliban, helping and equipment was part of this project.
 
A scene on incident . A dead mother and her two and half year old kid alive, lying next to her mom. May be she came to collect the pension of her dead husband. And then ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
i dont even take the word created back!! They were created, helped, and brought to afghanistan. they were religiouse students in pakistan and from that point pakistan designed the project Taliban, helping and equipment was part of this project.

We did not create them nor was there any 'project Taliban' to send them into Afghanistan to rise into the Taliban movement.

Some of the leadership and lower level cadres may have been educated in Madrassa's in Pakistan, but that is not the same as arguing some sort of secret plot under which they returned to Afghanistan to launch the Taliban movement.

Mullah Omar was an Islamic teacher in Afghanistan, and his Taliban movement, as pointed out by S-2, was spontaneous and local. Pakistan did not step in to support it until we saw it as a viable faction in Afghanistan.
 
We do know a lot - that is why we attacked their safe havens first in Swat, and now in South Waziristan.

There is however no magic wand to wave that will eliminate the terrorists - at its root the problem is an ideology, and so long as people like you refuse to accept the clear evidence about the guilt of these Islamic extremists, and people do not cooperate with LEA's to *** them out and take a stance against them, such attacks will continue.

Intelligence requires cooperation from average citizens.

There is nothing wrong with my logic - it is the mindset of people like you that prevents Pakistan from eliminating this threat.

that's what I have been stressing and screaming. stop ignoring the monster that is the muslim extremist just because he is muslim. You're not doing your religion a service by hiding their barbaric acts, you are actually hurting the religion and the country. keep blaming everyone but these muslim extremist terrorists and I guarantee you terrorism in Pakistan won't stop but maybe that's what these people want, probably they are pawns of these extremists and their job is to create confusion in public so their brothers can hide in public and carry out their heinous crimes. If that's their agenda then they are doing a good job.
 
Nation is paying the sins of Zia ul Haq, who support mullah, in exchange get support for his unpopular govt. And on top, his son was great supporter of sectarian gangs and provide safety to Lalmasjid animals. Govt should send Zia son to Gitmo.
 
The scenes of destruction and the narrations of the deaths are depressing and sad. Pakistan must stand united in their condemnation of the terror cells which tries to overthrow its government and inflict its outdated culture on Pakistan. My mother was speaking to my aunt in Delhi a few minutes ago and apparently throughout that neighbourhood the news is focused on these attacks. Indians remain shocked and sad at this terrible news. May the dead rest in peace. May the surviving victims be graced with strength to continue their lives. May the Pakistani army be blessed with the resolve to wipe out these termites and bring peace to the people. :pakistan:
 
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