BJP opposes reservations for Muslims: Rajnath

[EjazR]

I heard about him, what a Muslim he was, as per him, the first thing he did when he woke up, read Gita, not Quran, but Gita, what kind of Muslim he could read Gite no problem, but read Quran first. A good Muslim would do the first thing n first.

You are falling for the takfiri ideology again vis a vis Taliban. Where did you get that he doesn't read the Quran? Any proof?

His father was a muezzin and he himself studied quran under him when he was small. He used to pray Jumah in the masjid at Rashtrapati Bhawan(President House) when he was a President.

Here are some pictures of Dr. Kalam at Fatehpur sikri masjid
President Kalam offers Namaz at Fatehpuri Mosque

Having said that, his being a president has more to do with his contributions to India and Indian defence that just being a muslim. Just religion should not be the basis of any post particularly being a President.

 

[asq]

You are falling for the takfiri ideology again vis a vis Taliban. Where did you get that he doesn't read the Quran? Any proof?

His father was a muezzin and he himself studied quran under him when he was small. He used to pray Jumah in the masjid at Rashtrapati Bhawan(President House) when he was a President.

Here are some pictures of Dr. Kalam at Fatehpur sikri masjid
President Kalam offers Namaz at Fatehpuri Mosque

Having said that, his being a president has more to do with his contributions to India and Indian defence that just being a muslim. Just religion should not be the basis of any post particularly being a President.

You guys are twisting matters as usual, an old Indian style, lay off that style you dudes.

Now facts, I did not say he does not, again I did not say he does not read Holy Quran, I said he read Gita first and than Holy Quran.

And did I mention about his father what he did or used to do.Again do not confuse the matter.Dude.

Did i say he was not Muslim and did not go to mosque. give me a break. Dudes. stick to the point.

Tell me u Indians, what percentage of Muslims live in India and what percentage of them elected to the parliament, so my point is, reserve the seats and allow Muslims to represent themselves as they should without other keeping them down by designs and by hate.

So Gharib nawaz if you choose to stay down it your choice but i hope u allow other Indian Muslims to choose what they want.

If it is reserve seats, than so be it.

Let the Democratic process take its route. If India is a Democratic country.

 

[EjazR]

Did i say he was not Muslim and did not go to mosque. give me a break. Dudes. stick to the point.

Ok agreed, you didnt say he was'nt a muslim, my bad. But Im still not sure why you say he read Gita first and then Quran. I haven't heard it before. Not trying to berate you or anything

In any case, according to some ulemas, the vedas can possibly be considered as one of the revealed books like the Bible and Talmud because of some of its content.

Tell me u Indians, what percentage of Muslims live in India and what percentage of them elected to the parliament, so my point is, reserve the seats and allow Muslims to represent themselves as they should without other keeping them down by designs and by hate.

So Gharib nawaz if you choose to stay down it your choice but i hope u allow other Indian Muslims to choose what they want.

If it is reserve seats, than so be it.

Let the Democratic process take its route. If India is a Democratic country.

Yes its true muslims are underrepresented in the current lok sabha. But reservation in the parliament will in no way help the muslims. And is it necessary to ONLY have muslims to look after their interests. If a non-muslim candidate is better than a muslim one(i.e. honest better governance e.t.c. , then muslims should vote for the better candidate. So no, there is no need for reservation in the parliament. Infact, if muslims in UP and Bihar didnt go around making "muslim named" parties and putting up their candidates for elections, India would have probably had another 5-10 more Muslims MPs. Thanks to the "division of secular" votes, that did'nt happen.

Now coming to what this thread was about. There is no need to provide reservations for muslims in jobs as such as long as the selection process is strictly monitored and candidates are selected on the basis of merit. Muslims can compete on their merits without any issues and they are represent one of the best doctors, engineers, scientists e.t.c.. In education, there might be some scope but still I would prefer to target scholarships and coaching programs for poor students as going through the reservation route doesn't give you the "merit" tag.

The reservation that IS needed is definitely to include Dalit Muslims and Christians in the SC category. It is a great injustice in our system that Dalit Muslims and Christians are the only ones left out when Sikhs and Buddhists can avail of this. They would form a small percentage of the total SC population and would be part of the EXISTING quota. So no one else would be affected except other SCs. So I don't see why anyone would oppose it
JD(U) and SAD both are important BJP allies and have supported this amendment.

 

[asq]

Ok agreed, you didnt say he was'nt a muslim, my bad. But Im still not sure why you say he read Gita first and then Quran. I haven't heard it before. Not trying to berate you or anything

In any case, according to some ulemas, the vedas can possibly be considered as one of the revealed books like the Bible and Talmud because of some of its content.


Yes its true muslims are underrepresented in the current lok sabha. But reservation in the parliament will in no way help the muslims. And is it necessary to ONLY have muslims to look after their interests. If a non-muslim candidate is better than a muslim one(i.e. honest better governance e.t.c. , then muslims should vote for the better candidate. So no, there is no need for reservation in the parliament. Infact, if muslims in UP and Bihar didnt go around making "muslim named" parties and putting up their candidates for elections, India would have probably had another 5-10 more Muslims MPs. Thanks to the "division of secular" votes, that did'nt happen.

Now coming to what this thread was about. There is no need to provide reservations for muslims in jobs as such as long as the selection process is strictly monitored and candidates are selected on the basis of merit. Muslims can compete on their merits without any issues and they are represent one of the best doctors, engineers, scientists e.t.c.. In education, there might be some scope but still I would prefer to target scholarships and coaching programs for poor students as going through the reservation route doesn't give you the "merit" tag.

The reservation that IS needed is definitely to include Dalit Muslims and Christians in the SC category. It is a great injustice in our system that Dalit Muslims and Christians are the only ones left out when Sikhs and Buddhists can avail of this. They would form a small percentage of the total SC population and would be part of the EXISTING quota. So no one else would be affected except other SCs. So I don't see why anyone would oppose it
JD(U) and SAD both are important BJP allies and have supported this amendment.

My friend you are not getting the point.

Muslims are systemically deprived of education, so when time come to apply and get a job they do not have the required qualifications as they were denied initially in schools and colleges and universities. And therefore the job is given to others..

Best man getting the job only works if there are equal opportunities provided. And till that time comes seats should be reserved.

It has been 60 years and in the biggest Democracy of the world and Muslim minorities are still under represented. I am not surprised.

When it comes to riots there is no time wasted by Hindu leaders, but for representation in Lok Sabha it has not happened in 60 years.

And about Vedas and other Hindu scriptures, they have not been authenticated by Muslim Ulemas, and as long as they are not, I am of the opinion that they are not Allah's massage, No disrespect intended, If you have any proof about our Ulemas testifying that Vedas are a Allah S.W.T. words than I will be pleased and will call them so, I will be glad to take a look and may be learn something if you can present any proof of Ulemas saying this.

 

[EjazR]

My friend you are not getting the point.

Muslims are systemically deprived of education, so when time come to apply and get a job they do not have the required qualifications as they were denied initially in schools and colleges and universities. And therefore the job is given to others..

Believe me, there is no systematic conspiracy like you say. Sure there muight be individual cases of discrimniation, I cannot deny that. But having been through the system myself and landing a job even before I graduated WITHOUT reservation, I can't accept what you are saying. Moreover, there are thousands of other muslim students who get top ranks and placements in educational insitutitons (without reservations). The problem is the neglect from the government on education and also Muslim leaders who should have given higher priority on this. The situation of South Indian muslims is much better compared to North Indian Muslims for example in this regard. Thankfully, the situation is now changing and Muslims in UP-Bihar are also focussing on education.

The riots 99% of the time are instigated for political reasons and its no surprise that they happen just before elections. Again the long-term solution for that is education for both Hindus and Muslims because the more educated both the communities are the less chance of misunderstanding and problems. Again, probably why there are less cases of riots in the south compared to the north.

And about Vedas and other Hindu scriptures, they have not been authenticated by Muslim Ulemas, and as long as they are not, I am of the opinion that they are not Allah's massage, No disrespect intended, If you have any proof about our Ulemas testifying that Vedas are a Allah S.W.T. words than I will be pleased and will call them so, I will be glad to take a look and may be learn something if you can present any proof of Ulemas saying this.

I'm not sure what you mean by authenticated. For example the Bible and the Talmud are not considered the original authentic versions as well. But they do have the status of revealed book and because some of its content reflect that. And similar things have been said about the vedas by Islamic saints and scholars as early as 11-12th century and all the way till today.

Maulana Shams Naved Usmani (belonging to the same illustrious family as Maulana Taqi Usmani) has given some of the most detailed info in this regard

He mentions that Nuh and Manu are actually the same person and that his two sons Sham and Ham are the originators of the Semetic (Jews and Arabs) and Hamitic (Hindus i.e. belonging to the geographical area between the Indus and the Ganga) tribes. Saying that both these communities share a bond through Nuh / Manu and with everyone through Adam (who again stepped on the Indian sub-continent when he came to earth)

Suffice it to say that according to him(and many muslim scholars who have actually studied both scriptures),vedas can accord the same respect that we assign to the Bible and Talmud.

If you need more info/links on this PM me as I dont want to go offtopic.

 

[manishmaithani]

My friend you are not getting the point.

Muslims are systemically deprived of education, so when time come to apply and get a job they do not have the required qualifications as they were denied initially in schools and colleges and universities. And therefore the job is given to others..

Best man getting the job only works if there are equal opportunities provided. And till that time comes seats should be reserved.


Dear sir, in Indian constitution there is no reservation on religeous base because we r secular country.reservation on religelous base will make a wound on soul of our constitution.Indian muslims are diferent than pakistani muslim because of our education system and we are secular country, and we respect each other religeon.So that, as per by our constitution made by Dr. Bheem rao Ambedkar all indian has same fundamental rights(No diference by religeon based) which give to hindu.If u will see indian diversity then u will feel that muslim mejority Kerla state was india first 100 % education rate state and tamil nadu is also same as kerla,our visionary Ex. President Dr kalam is also from Tamilnadu.First u need to see india diversity then u can understand india. Only north indian (Uttar pradesh,haryana and punjab) think pakistan as enemy or vis versa, on the other hand other indian rest of north india weather they are muslim,hindu or christian never think about you.Come india once and travel all over the india then you could understand better.

 

[third eye]

My friend you are not getting the point.

Muslims are systemically deprived of education, so when time come to apply and get a job they do not have the required qualifications as they were denied initially in schools and colleges and universities. And therefore the job is given to others..
Best man getting the job only works if there are equal opportunities provided. And till that time comes seats should be reserved.

It has been 60 years and in the biggest Democracy of the world and Muslim minorities are still under represented. I am not surprised.

When it comes to riots there is no time wasted by Hindu leaders, but for representation in Lok Sabha it has not happened in 60 years.

And about Vedas and other Hindu scriptures, they have not been authenticated by Muslim Ulemas, and as long as they are not, I am of the opinion that they are not Allah's massage, No disrespect intended, If you have any proof about our Ulemas testifying that Vedas are a Allah S.W.T. words than I will be pleased and will call them so, I will be glad to take a look and may be learn something if you can present any proof of Ulemas saying this.

How are muslims ' systematicaly deprived of education " ??

As rgds being under represented, can anyone be elected if they don't even stand for election ?

I come from an area which has elected muslim candidates for yrs.

 

[glomex]

My friend you are not getting the point.

Muslims are systemically deprived of education, so when time come to apply and get a job they do not have the required qualifications as they were denied initially in schools and colleges and universities. And therefore the job is given to others..

Best man getting the job only works if there are equal opportunities provided. And till that time comes seats should be reserved.

It has been 60 years and in the biggest Democracy of the world and Muslim minorities are still under represented. I am not surprised.

When it comes to riots there is no time wasted by Hindu leaders, but for representation in Lok Sabha it has not happened in 60 years.

And about Vedas and other Hindu scriptures, they have not been authenticated by Muslim Ulemas, and as long as they are not, I am of the opinion that they are not Allah's massage, No disrespect intended, If you have any proof about our Ulemas testifying that Vedas are a Allah S.W.T. words than I will be pleased and will call them so, I will be glad to take a look and may be learn something if you can present any proof of Ulemas saying this.

CONSIDER THE following:

President Zardari is trying to secure Pakistan against extremists. So he decided that all madrasas in the country would be taken over by the government to isolate the extremists from genuine students. He said his government had resolved to introduce reforms in the madrasa system and bring it under government oversight. He views this as one of the steps necessary to save the country from the crisis it is in and bequeath a better Pakistan to the next generation.

Consider India, where Muslims are a minority: In Kerala, based on the Paloli Committee Report, about 50,000 madrassa teachers will be covered by the pension scheme as a welfare programme by the CPI-M government. The government will provide about four crore of rupees as initial deposit. Under this scheme, each madrassa teacher needs to contribute Rs 50/- per month and the madrassa management committee will contribute Rs 50/- per month. Those with at least 10 years of service will be eligible for coverage under the pension scheme and the maximum amount of pension will be Rs 4,000/- per month. This is just one instance.


Most of the Muslims in Kerala work in the gulf countries and do earn enough. But the government is more liberal towards them. Based on another recommendation of the Paloli Committee, 5,000 Muslim girls will receive scholarship. According to this additional scholarship programme, Muslim girls pursuing graduate, post-graduate and professional courses will receive Rs 5,000/-, Rs 4,000/- and Rs 5,000/- respectively every year by way of scholarship and the scholarship will cover the entire course. During the current year, the government will also disburse a stipend of Rs 1,000/- per month to Muslim girls staying in hostels for pursuing their studies. Courtesy this scheme, they will receive Rs 10,000/- every year. To help the educated Muslim youth face the competitive examinations and come out successful, the Central government will inaugurate five coaching centres across the state.

Let us remember that all these incentives are offered on the basis of religion alone and not on the basis of the financial status of the families!

Being a Muslim in Muslim-minority India

 

[asq]

My friend you are not getting the point.

Muslims are systemically deprived of education, so when time come to apply and get a job they do not have the required qualifications as they were denied initially in schools and colleges and universities. And therefore the job is given to others..

Best man getting the job only works if there are equal opportunities provided. And till that time comes seats should be reserved.


Dear sir, in Indian constitution there is no reservation on religeous base because we r secular country.reservation on religelous base will make a wound on soul of our constitution.Indian muslims are diferent than pakistani muslim because of our education system and we are secular country, and we respect each other religeon.So that, as per by our constitution made by Dr. Bheem rao Ambedkar all indian has same fundamental rights(No diference by religeon based) which give to hindu.If u will see indian diversity then u will feel that muslim mejority Kerla state was india first 100 % education rate state and tamil nadu is also same as kerla,our visionary Ex. President Dr kalam is also from Tamilnadu.First u need to see india diversity then u can understand india. Only north indian (Uttar pradesh,haryana and punjab) think pakistan as enemy or vis versa, on the other hand other indian rest of north india weather they are muslim,hindu or christian never think about you.Come india once and travel all over the india then you could understand better.

Sir if u tell me that only north Indian think about Pakistan as enemy, than My question is than why the majority of Indians who think about Pakistan as not an enemy allow these north nincompoops to dictate all the policies of India.

Now you are telling me that Indian is secular but most Hindus that I hear say it is a country for Hindus all the Muslims should get out and go to Pakistan, So are u secular or are u Hindu country. I am sure you are a Hindu country, because it is said so often with such ferocity.

Was Mody not form south India.

Representation of minorities be it Muslims and Sikhs in Parliament has not happened in 60 years, why it is taking so long, if India is what you tell me it is than it should have been the first priority.

There is trouble in Assam with Maoists, why India, if it is secular meet them in on the bases of Secularism and listen to their genuine greviences and stop killing.

Same thing goes for Kashmir.

U.R. inviting me to come to see India , India is a country devaloped by Muslims to its finest and yet the credit is not their. only insults, insults to Aurangzeb and to other MUghal kings, a constant reminder to us Pakistani Muslims that India is not for Muslims even kings get insulted by INDIANS.

I am concerned about the treatment of Pakistanis in India. So I am not that keen on coming to India.

 

[glomex]

Representation of minorities be it Muslims and Sikhs in Parliament has not happened in 60 years, why it is taking so long, if India is what you tell me it is than it should have been the first priority.

Please read the list of Muslim Member of Parliament of India.

Muslims in Parliament of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this one is for your analysis.....
Members of Parliament (Lok Sabha) - Who's Who - Government: National Portal of India

For your information Muslims constitute of 17% of Indian Population and the numbers are an enough representation.

 

[third eye]

Sir if u tell me that only north Indian think about Pakistan as enemy, than My question is than why the majority of Indians who think about Pakistan as not an enemy allow these north nincompoops to dictate all the policies of India.

Democracy my friend allows the majority to decide...and N Indians feel strongly abt Pk coz they have been on the recieving end since '47. Now you cud add Mimbai to that list.

Now you are telling me that Indian is secular but most Hindus that I hear say it is a country for Hindus all the Muslims should get out and go to Pakistan, So are u secular or are u Hindu country. I am sure you are a Hindu country, because it is said so often with such ferocity.

Don't go by hearsay..

Was Mody not form south India.

No, Gujarat is on the western side of india with a common boundry with Sind.

Representation of minorities be it Muslims and Sikhs in Parliament has not happened in 60 years, why it is taking so long, if India is what you tell me it is than it should have been the first priority.

Rep in Parlt is to do with states not religions.

There is trouble in Assam with Maoists, why India, if it is secular meet them in on the bases of Secularism and listen to their genuine greviences and stop killing.

The commies want to de stab

Same thing goes for Kashmir.

.. someone else wants to de stab..

U.R. inviting me to come to see India , India is a country devaloped by Muslims to its finest and yet the credit is not their. only insults, insults to Aurangzeb and to other MUghal kings, a constant reminder to us Pakistani Muslims that India is not for Muslims even kings get insulted by INDIANS.

Credit goes to those muslim rulers who deserve it - Akbar being one of them.

I am concerned about the treatment of Pakistanis in India. So I am not that keen on coming to India.

Well... your loss & ur call .

 

[Veejey]

Your rant shows your ignorance of the matter. Are you saying providing reservations for SC/STs is not in the constitution? This is part of the constitution by the way (if you ever did have a read of it).

Again, the reservations being demanded here is not a blanket reservation for all muslims. It is to include Dalit muslims and Christians into the SC/ST category. This would not increase reservations in any way. JD(U) an NDA ally recently passed a resolution calling on the government regarding this. Why are you against SC/ST muslims being included in this reservation? Something they have been denied for the past 60 odd years. I don't think any true Indian can reject this logical demand short of being a bigot.

You are right it is a case of quota within a quota. In Andhra Pradesh the government has already introduced 4% reservations for muslims falling under Backward Class. Supreme Court has already approved the admissions as per this quota subject to final outcome of various petitions filed in AP High Court.

AP Muslim quota: SC permits admissions under controversial Act - Express India

I dont think AP High Court has given its final judgement.

As per Indian constitution quotas were never meant to be for ever. Quota for SC/ST was introduced in the constitution with the aim that it will be reduced gradually over a period of 20 years. But our politicians never allowed it to be reduced. On the contrary they increased the percentages and introduced various sub classes in it. In fact now people are fighting to get be recognised as backward classes (Gujjar Andolan in Rajasthan) !

It was never meant to be based on religion. Muslims are not eligible because they dont have caste system in their religion.

 

[asq]

Well... your loss & ur call .

At times you are sarcastic and at times your are tongue and cheek so I am not interested in those who are mischievous.

My loss and your call, what kind of nonsense is that. you obviously do not believe in peace and fairness to conversions and dealing with other humans.

you sir are a sarcastic person.

 

[asq]

Hay third eye.

I have to tell you about Kashmir, it is a disputed territory and not a place for India to force its hegemony.

About Assam, if you cannot stand the heat than get out of the kitchen.

About representation in parliament, i did not say about religious segregation, but it is clear from India's policies that it discriminates on the bases of Religion.

You only mention Akbar, he is not considered a good Muslim as he tried to invent a new Religion called Deen-E-Elahi concocted by Abul Faizi, No wonder u will endorse him of all other like Jahangir, Shahjahan, Hemyun and most iof all Aurangzeb. Now I can write pages about Aurangzeb, but you are being what you are do not like all kings except Akbar and promote him as he tried to be anti Islam, what a farce.

How would u like if a Hindu king invented concoction a new Hindu religion and called it New Gita and abandon the old and original one just to keep kingship

Let me challenge u about the history of Muslims kings in India and how your historians have corrupted it. dude.

CUPISH

and vijay I read your post with interest and i find it interesting in the realm that Indian constitution is used to put out laws that are contrary to fair and good decisions, where as I am sure there exists some constitutional amendments that would be conducive to permanent allotment of seats.

Politicians as they are, both in India and Pakistan must be kept a close eye on by both media and public in order to keep them inline with constitutions of the country and the feelings of Public and to use the goodness and not the nasty side to get elected by starting riots by lies and cheating..