Bhensa has been controlled.

[haviZsultan]

you have any hidden agenda or something? why do you keep blaming institutions for missing or hiding "activists".

No institution can be blamed for the disappearances. When I was having problems with crazy Indians there was an Ahmedi officer who checked my case. The armed forces are far more secular than any institution in the country. Then comes the politicians who are not just secular but very far away from Islam with their whoring, drinking and nepotism. I have no doubt that this is not done by polticians/army but by terrorists and vile criminals.

That doesn't excuse them however. Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti murders should have been a wake up call for us. Taseer's son was kidnapped for a decade by Uzbek factions allied/in the TTP. Perhaps the same elements are active now.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

Talking to you is like talking to a belligerent child who takes things over the internet very seriously. You are like a petty child, holding a grudge because you do not have the capability to debate.

As for your stance, you express incapability to grasp the intricacies of nation building and how providing freedom is more important than this kind of religious fervor. This is an emotional stand, not a logical one.

Regadless from my side its not about not agreeing with your views. We can agree to disagree. But you are always combative. Also are you trying to scare me with this masafi nonsense. I have already had severe problems with Indians. If they couldn't do anything you are a puny little person in this regard. As I said very petty of you.


I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination. If they are too critical for our tastes I have seen far more army/(and even) Islam critical posts from NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid. Even when we disagree with these people its better to debate with them rather than punish them. Asking for tolerance in society is a little too much these days.

Changing verses of Quran, making cartoons of PBUH, writing things that no Muslim can even imagine reading, that is not blasphemy to you?

 

[VCheng]

Asking for the rule of law to implemented does not blame any institution, as long as the law is followed.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

No institution can be blamed for the disappearances. When I was having problems with crazy Indians there was an Ahmedi officer who checked my case. The armed forces are far more secular than any institution in the country. Then comes the politicians who are not just secular but very far away from Islam with their whoring, drinking and nepotism. I have no doubt that this is not done by polticians/army but by terrorists and vile criminals.

That doesn't excuse them however. Taseer and Shahbaz Bhatti murders should have been a wake up call for us. Taseer's son was kidnapped for a decade by Uzbek factions allied/in the TTP. Perhaps the same elements are active now.

i know, but that guy keeps blaming the institutions and he doesn't have any proof.

 

[haviZsultan]

i know, but that guy keeps blaming the institutions and he doesn't have any proof.

We can't cut someones tongue out now can we? As long as humans are alive they will question. It is part of our nature. I disagree with him on his lack of trust in the army or other institutions but thats the way life works. You agree with people and you disagree. We are too quick to ask for cut heads when the world is advancing. We are stuck on the size of our beard or the lenght of our shalwar when the world has advanced beyond these questions, beyond pettiness. And Islam also does not demand us to think pettily.

Its surprising however when people take things personally like khafee. We have to work together as Pakistanis, not get bogged down by emotional and single minded arguments. I send a hand of friendship to maulana @Khafee too.

This thread explores our narrow parochial vision. All I have heard on it are 1) unproven claims of blasphemy
2) vigilante ideals. They must be punished.

Its a slippery slope friend. Once we instead of Allah start judging people we will all be khalifas.

 

[The Sandman]

i know, but that guy keeps blaming the institutions and he doesn't have any proof.

Basically just like the indians according to him ISI and Army is behind every ill in our country.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

We can't cut someones tongue out now can we? As long as humans are alive they will question. It is part of our nature. I disagree with him on his lack of trust in the army or other institutions but thats the way life works. You agree with people and you disagree. We are too quick to ask for cut heads when the world is advancing. We are stuck on the size of our beard or the lenght of our shalwar when the world has advanced beyond these questions, beyond pettiness. And Islam also does not demand us to think pettily.

Its surprising however when people take things personally like khafee. We have to work together as Pakistanis, not get bogged down by emotional and single minded arguments. I send a hand of friendship to maulana @Khafee too.

This thread explores our narrow parochial vision. All I have heard on it are 1) unproven claims of blasphemy
2) vigilante ideals. They must be punished.

Its a slippery slope friend. Once we instead of Allah start judging people we will all be khalifas.

nobody is cutting his tongue out, i debated with him very nicely and asked him many times what proofs he has against army, he doesn't have any. If you can't provide proofs then atleast you need to be fair and not blame one side only.

 

[Panther 57]

nobody is cutting his tongue out, i debated with him very nicely and asked him many times what proofs he has against army, he doesn't have any. If you can't provide proofs then atleast you need to be fair and not blame one side only.

It is not necessary that the missing persons are with any LEU. There are many others who may be interested in discussing his thoughts. There are number of self proclaimed jurist roaming around among us (means in our society).

 

[Respect4Respect01]

We are stuck on the size of our beard or the lenght of our shalwar when the world has advanced beyond these questions, beyond pettiness. And Islam also does not demand us to think pettily.

Its surprising however when people take things personally like khafee. We have to work together as Pakistanis, not get bogged down by emotional and single minded arguments. I send a hand of friendship to maulana @Khafee too.

This thread explores our narrow parochial vision. All I have heard on it are 1) unproven claims of blasphemy
2) vigilante ideals. They must be punished.

Its a slippery slope friend. Once we instead of Allah start judging people we will all be khalifas.

Beard and length of shalwaar are part of Sunnah, and you are not forced to follow it if you don't want to, there is no need to call it a petty thinking.

 

[Khafee]

Beard and length of shalwaar are part of Sunnah, and you are not forced to follow it if you don't want to, there is no need to call it a petty thinking.

This is the difference between a liberal and a libturd

 

[Respect4Respect01]

This is the difference between a liberal and a libturd

Liberals are supposed to be open minded, but most "desi liberals" think that abusing Islam and calling Muslims extremists is liberalism.

 

[Spring Onion]

I believe the idea that they committed blasphemy is a figment of our imagination. If they are too critical for our tastes I have seen far more army/(and even) Islam critical posts from NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid. Even when we disagree with these people its better to debate with them rather than punish them. Asking for tolerance in society is a little too much these days.

You have every right to believe what you want to believe. I personally believe that criticizing ARMY is not an issue and as you have mentioned Marvi, NFP and many more had been criticising Army rather blaming it even for blowing of wind so basically that is not an issue.

Now please come to this point of Islam critical posts be these by anyone; if someone is putting his or her view or argue even aspects of Islamic way of life or teaching without resorting to abusive language and disrespect then that is not an issue because if you have some knowledge of Islamic history we see that people were allowed to question and were answered by prominent Islamic personalities BUT the main issue is ABUSIVE and tasteless language these so called liberals or so called activists often use.

Please be clear that such language is not at all freedom of speech but it is an attempt to stir emotions and ignite violence simple as that.

Please read this thread in details and you will find some posts where the members have posted some images and quotes from some more FB pages of such liberals or 'social activists" (Not these four but some other such activists), and you will understand why it is offending to a level of intolerance.

Many supporters of these missing persons on this forum claimed that they were 'picked' up by agencies for their liberal views or blasphemous views or for that matter even criticising army.

Now please take some time out and conduct thorough research and tell us when was the last time agencies had picked up anyone for his or her liberal views or when was the last time agencies had picked up any blasphemer ????


There are many journalists in Pakistani media who's bred and butter is criticising army non of them had been picked up merely for this.

 

[haviZsultan]

You have every right to believe what you want to believe. I personally believe that criticizing ARMY is not an issue and as you have mentioned Marvi, NFP and many more had been criticising Army rather blaming it even for blowing of wind so basically that is not an issue.

Every institution out in the public eye will be criticized. However it is a fact that the army is the least corrupt institution in the country.

Now please come to this point of Islam critical posts be these by anyone; if someone is putting his or her view or argue even aspects of Islamic way of life or teaching without resorting to abusive language and disrespect then that is not an issue because if you have some knowledge of Islamic history we see that people were allowed to question and were answered by prominent Islamic personalities BUT the main issue is ABUSIVE and tasteless language these so called liberals or so called activists often use.

I have already stated that such abusive language and hatred is unwanted, even against the army. A nation has to have some limits. If Tunisia can ban headscarves and Somalia/Brunei christmas . I am not arguing against the fact that insults to Islam and abuse is wrong. I am only disagreeing with the course of action. Calling a wrong and evil comments against are prophet wrong is my duty but it is not my task to make them pay.

Please be clear that such language is not at all freedom of speech but it is an attempt to stir emotions and ignite violence simple as that.

I agree. Its tricky however what kind of punishment should be given to such individuals.

Please read this thread in details and you will find some posts where the members have posted some images and quotes from some more FB pages of such liberals or 'social activists" (Not these four but some other such activists), and you will understand why it is offending to a level of intolerance.

I haven't checked every page of the thread nor do I have the time to go through each page. I see it as nitpicking though, going through the entire thread to find something blasphemous. But if they did commit blasphemy I would rather leave them to God's punishment than my own. I can only debate with them and hope they see the light.

Many supporters of these missing persons on this forum claimed that they were 'picked' up by agencies for their liberal views or blasphemous views or for that matter even criticising army.

I disagree with that, as I have done in numerous posts. The army is the only purely secular institution in the country. They have no stomach or wish to kidnap activists known for being critical. Blaming the army is going full crazy. And the government too does not have the will or wish to take part in criminal activity and is both morally and completely corrupt.

Now please take some time out and conduct thorough research and tell us when was the last time agencies had picked up anyone for his or her liberal views or when was the last time agencies had picked up any blasphemer ????

Never, friend, never. In fact each time, including the shahbaz taseer case, it was proven beyond a shadow of doubt that the TTP/IMU were the top movements involved in kidnap cases.

There are many journalists in Pakistani media who's bred and butter is criticising army non of them had been picked up merely for this.

I agree.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

I haven't checked every page of the thread nor do I have the time to go through each page. I see it as nitpicking though, going through the entire thread to find something blasphemous. But if they did commit blasphemy I would rather leave them to God's punishment than my own. I can only debate with them and hope they see the light.

.

My friend, nobody is trying to kill or punish them, in fact only courts have the right to punish them. Nobody has any problem with their beliefs if they keep it to themselves, but they chose to insult Islam and provoke Muslims for no reason, what do they want to prove? I wish i could show you what they posted on their bhensa page but i just can't because their posts are so filthy that i can't even look at them.

 

[Sinnerman108]

You have every right to believe what you want to believe. I personally believe that criticizing ARMY is not an issue and as you have mentioned Marvi, NFP and many more had been criticising Army rather blaming it even for blowing of wind so basically that is not an issue.

Now please come to this point of Islam critical posts be these by anyone; if someone is putting his or her view or argue even aspects of Islamic way of life or teaching without resorting to abusive language and disrespect then that is not an issue because if you have some knowledge of Islamic history we see that people were allowed to question and were answered by prominent Islamic personalities BUT the main issue is ABUSIVE and tasteless language these so called liberals or so called activists often use.

Please be clear that such language is not at all freedom of speech but it is an attempt to stir emotions and ignite violence simple as that.

Please read this thread in details and you will find some posts where the members have posted some images and quotes from some more FB pages of such liberals or 'social activists" (Not these four but some other such activists), and you will understand why it is offending to a level of intolerance.

Many supporters of these missing persons on this forum claimed that they were 'picked' up by agencies for their liberal views or blasphemous views or for that matter even criticising army.

Now please take some time out and conduct thorough research and tell us when was the last time agencies had picked up anyone for his or her liberal views or when was the last time agencies had picked up any blasphemer ????


There are many journalists in Pakistani media who's bred and butter is criticising army non of them had been picked up merely for this.

I expected better, at least from you.

Internet doesn't work this way.
Someone has a page, and it is YOUR conscious decision when you visit that page.
and read the material which is there.

If you don't like the material, then block that page.

What rights do state institutions have to regulate someone's thought process ?
and how is that any different than TTP in principle ?

Lastly, do state institutions have a mandate to uphold sanctity or necessity of religion ?
If it is not expressly allowed by in our constitution, then these institutions over stepped.