What's new

Best way to capture a city where enemy has mustered itself and self sufficient.

of course all are conditions dependent.... but some general points and point to look for and prefer..


Avoid snipers. They are what you are Actually fighting in a city. Send only the sharpest shooters in.

Get good food for your soldiers while they're dug in. Top of the head.
 
.
Avoid snipers. They are what you are Actually fighting in a city. Send only the sharpest shooters in.

Get good food for your soldiers while they're dug in. Top of the head.
a sniper with flu cannot target fast moving soldiers.... and would be definitely fired upon..
 
.
a sniper with flu cannot target fast moving soldiers.... and would be definitely fired upon..


They can. They need not take out every running guy. They need to take out the machine gunner, medic and the radio guy. :coffee:

Sniper shooting somebody is easier than to shoot a sniper. Except when a sniper is shooting another sniper.
 
. .
The purpose of post was thinking something unconventional/unorthodox because this battle arena is new.
My entire strategy revolves around draining the enemy moral. will and capacity to fight. Of course all can be achieved by lethal force but that is not the point. Some factors I give importance more, are:
1. Give them escape route. Not necessarily in form of safe exit but; better leverages if they surrender, negotiate their political agenda, keeping their family separate from the issue, etc.
2.A well fortified and less equipped enemy means they will fight till death as they already know that fighting a stronger enemy is equivalent to suicide
3. Win people on your side. This is essential as it will reduce future recruitment and help building you intelligence network.
4. The bigger is the enemy the easier to break them into factions on racial, political, ethnic, etc. lines. So large number of enemy is their strength as well as weakness. Hence, cutting their supply will seriously affect their will and operation capability.

Now regarding using military actions:
As I am not military expert as well, so remain limited here
1. We need a one/two front engagement with minor/QRF operations (open front of your choice to keep them running).
2. Accuracy and lethality are more important instead of blunt force.
3. Take out high value target, energy lines and all things which make them unrest, unwilling and frustrated.e.g. keep them awake all night by bombardment.
4. Continue to engage them to ration them out from fuel, arsenal, food etc. Its actually never to stop fight and to do dialogue.
5. But the main thing in my mind was use of less lethal biological element. I think it is some kind of flu. Spread the virus through water, food, air, etc. Flu massively deteriorates physical ability to fight, it is viral so it spreads widely and rapidly etc. Give your soldier antidote before entering the city for final assault.
For every action you take, one must think of future and world reaction. So no massive killing and lethal nuclear, biological or chemical weaponry.
@Nihonjin1051 @SipahSalar @C130 @jhungary @asad71 @Penguin @Color_Less_Sky @ahmadnawaz22 @Pangu

Well, your plan is very ideological, but would never work...

In a city siege with resident support, you are focusing too much on HUMINT, population support and trying to convert your population. But I can tell you this, what you said is a lot easier to say then for you to do it.

The key to fighting an insurgency is not the insurgency part itself, but rather the "fight" part, alas, how do you make them stop fighting, rather than focus on how do you stop them from becoming an insurgency force. Also, you suggesting implying that it would be an easy task to separate who is willing combatant, and who is not. The very first requirement of HUMINT is that you had to have an trusted/established source, which a factor that you do not specified, and it take months, if not years, to create a trusted source.

1. Give them escape route. Not necessarily in form of safe exit but; better leverages if they surrender, negotiate their political agenda, keeping their family separate from the issue, etc.

A simple question, what if they lied?? It's easy to say you undertake an oath or a pledge not to fight the invader, but you cannot control whether or not if they will keep that oath

Exit route of any kind will jeopardise either the security phase and pacification phase, if you allow free (or not free) movement in an out of the controlled area, then you allow people to influx your AO with weapons, ideas and most important of all, news. If you need to capture that city, and pacify the population, you cannot allow news from the outside world to be brought in or news from the inside to get out.

The only way populace can "exit" that AO would be under confinement

2.A well fortified and less equipped enemy means they will fight till death as they already know that fighting a stronger enemy is equivalent to suicide


In most case, not all, the defender would not care if they are suicidal to stand up for the invader, do remember insurgency is also kind of resistance, you still do get killed if you participate in an active insurgency, for insurgent, they choose not to fight in a convention manner does not equate to they scare of dying. Just they prefer a better chance to keep fighting in a tactical point of view (You ceased to fight once you die, hence it is utmost importance to stay alive)

3. Win people on your side. This is essential as it will reduce future recruitment and help building you intelligence network.


This is what I am talking about you say people, the question is, WHOM.

The key of insurgency is that you have resistance tug inside a normal population, unless there are someone who can stand out and point to people and say "This is an insurgent fighter, and this one is not" and he have to be trusted, otherwise you cannot build your HUMINT network like that.

The premises is, you have to know who you need to win, before winning them, time and again, counter-insurgency failed because the "Authority" trusted the wrong people.

4. The bigger is the enemy the easier to break them into factions on racial, political, ethnic, etc. lines. So large number of enemy is their strength as well as weakness. Hence, cutting their supply will seriously affect their will and operation capability.

Again, how?? You need to know who to cut off supplies from, and in most case, racial, political, ethnical and religious factors will stir up some trouble, but not enough to break the insurgency, look at China in WW2, Arabs in Israeli War and also look at Iraqi war in 2003 for an example.

1. We need a one/two front engagement with minor/QRF operations (open front of your choice to keep them running).

You need to secure the area first, if all you do is a QRF and SF attacks, then the insurgent will try to defeat you with conventional war, and then take control of your population. look at what ISIS did to Iraq as a prime example.

The correct way is to launch a general attack to secure the area and immediate, then send out SF/QRF to support your Civil Affair/Relation troop.

2. Accuracy and lethality are more important instead of blunt force.

Really depends, if the insurgent mount an organised attack (ala Tet-offensive) Brunt force are still needed.

3. Take out high value target, energy lines and all things which make them unrest, unwilling and frustrated.e.g. keep them awake all night by bombardment.

But then you will also piss off the population....

4. Continue to engage them to ration them out from fuel, arsenal, food etc. Its actually never to stop fight and to do dialogue.

Keep the pressure on is good, but bear in mind constant fighting in general will bring down the morale in local population. Fight should be isolated, and also have it own value and merit

5. But the main thing in my mind was use of less lethal biological element. I think it is some kind of flu. Spread the virus through water, food, air, etc. Flu massively deteriorates physical ability to fight, it is viral so it spreads widely and rapidly etc. Give your soldier antidote before entering the city for final assault.

Again, this only works unless you know who you want to target, otherwise it would be a city wide, non-discriminatory attacks, but then if you do, you will only strain your resource as you need to win hearts and minds by heal the sick. and then those insurgent would come back again at you. Or you means the city dies on their own??
 
.
One of the key objectives to capturing modern day cities is you must control the highways and roads leading into the city. Logistics is key and always has been.
 
.
#65 i will reply later...
i agree with most of your points... i know its a drawing room theory...but will more eleborate my point...
 
.
@Rajput_Pakistani
ur input if someone apply this in yemen... (post #56 and specifically its 5th point of 2nd heading.)
@Goenitz

Actually all this not that simple as it seems. Every military operation has its clearly define objectives. If there is not a clear objective, the OP is not only going to be a failure but a disaster to say the least.
In recent history, 3 campaigns strike my mind. If you do a little research on these, you will get answers to your questions.
1. 1971 East Pakistan
2. Recapture of Kuwait 1991 by US led Allied Forces
3. Operation Desert Storm 2 Year 2003

Okay, then keep in mind, the below key points for all these above campaigns.
1. Political situation / tilt of population
2. Geography
3. Balance of military on both sides
4. Logistics

A city with low population, few exit/entry points, plain or desert location is comparatively easy to capture and hold. Sea port and Airport are key points to control. If population is friendly towards attacker, it will be piece of cake and vise-a-verse. Fear factor if can be induced in civilians for large exodus before attack is a plus point for attacker.
 
.
1)Yes give them escape route i agree on that but not in shape of geographical actual escape route ,let it be known to them that if u don't surrender to us our regular forces ,the higher ups might send in units after a certain time which will not have any conscious kind of like nazi SS and their will be no mercy for any one a good cop bad cop tactic ,so thier window of opportunity is to surrender the city to the forces and commander currently laying seige ,let them know it will be the end of them their generations if these forces are replaced with the SS type forces ,anyones with families in the city will want to avail this window to discuss terms of surrender for the safety of the citizens plus save themselves a little bit of dignity .

2)accuracy of information on hierarchy of the army and eliminating which leaders will incapacitate the enemy .

3)winning people over yeah as long as they serve our interests ,and as for insurgents and resistance well once u occupy the city covertly start a insurgency against urself being lead by ur trusted spies build up their deadly repute put a huge sum on ur spies head make him a charismatic vengeful figure to whom the resistance rally around ,so that u can separate the black sheep from the white and when the time comes u will have the leader of that insurgency providing u the names imagine that.in the end all potential enemy freinds and enemy must be elimiated.

4) again break them up if its a huge force with factions ,best would be religious sectarianism make them fight each other supply them both with arms and ammunition covertly ,its better to have a degree of control over ur enemies so u can bring them to negotiate later if need be ,even better if the scholars instigating the civil war on both sides are on ur pay roll ,of course all of such assets are disposable once they have served their purpose.


rest i agree with Goenitz & jhungary to a extent
 
.
when i see battle of Damascus and Aleppo this days in which itself just a small modern city when compared to other Megacities like Shanghai, Beijing, New York, Tokyo, Seoul, Mumbai, Jakarta, Moscow and other. I feel a prolonged battle will only bring ruin but to capture them as soon as possible is quite a demanding task but necessary. Looking at Battle of Manila during WW II, even with a huge task force, the other side still can doing a massacre against local populace on the other side of the town.

it will be a hellish situation for everyone to battling in one of those Megacities
 
. .
Interesting exercise. But I think the shias and the sunnis will jointly fight against the jews in the future. So I cannot contribute here.
 
.
CUT ENEMY SUPPLY AND LOGISTIC LINES USE SPECIAL FORCES FOR THAT PURPOSE DEPRIVE THEM FOR WEEKS PATIENCE IS KEY EVENTUALLY THEY WILL COME OUT ANGRY LURE THEM IN AMBUSH AFTER THAT ATTACK WITH FULL FORCE USE ARTILLEY AND HARRASMENT TROOPS TO HARASS UNIT PLAY PHYSCOLOGICAL WARFARE
 
.
How does one even contemplate capturing megacities in this day & age?

Mexico City
1280px-AerialViewMexicoCity.jpg


Shanghai
Shanghai.jpg


Tokyo, the mother of all megacity
3269537749_af2aec2dcf_b.jpg


In the modern era, you have to complete destroy cities in order to take them. It's simple fact, that modern weapons are extremely destructive and required to take mega cities if the defenders are staunch.
 
.
Capture city with mass bombing, carpet bombing and then walkover through it.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya good case studies for how forces captured cities
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom