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How difficult would it be for China to invade Taiwan?

The biggest game changer will be the mass production of the PLAN's next generation of SSN, combined with the surface fleet, aviation, conventional subs, ASBM, CM, and coastal weapons, the US have zero chance in Taiwan
 
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The west absolutely has a choice, and they are acting on it RIGHT NOW. I’ll give you the example of Russia, Europe is buying Russian oil and gas to fill up their reserves for next winter during which time they hope to have oil and gas facilities build to receive and store American oil and gas.

If Russia is not brought in line by the fall, they will cutoff Russia. What will Russia do. Even with the means to threaten Russia with a cutoff, the Russians will have to make concessions after concessions.

The American business community doesn’t want to do it, which is why incentives will be put in bills to onshore factories back to the US. Labor is not the majority of the cost differential, it more like the sunk costs into the infrastructure China built in processing and manufacturing that has keep China competitive. The US will spend a $1 Trillion in infrastructure over the next 5-7 years and will probably incentivize private business to put in a further $2-3 Trillion over that same time.

You may not see the difference for the next few years, but the $20 billion Intel chip plant in Columbus, Ohio will go online and eat away at Chinese exports for decades to come. Lithium will start to be processed in the US. Mines will be re-opened, all in the name of National security.
You are deluding yourself to compare oil, gas to commodity.. Saudi, Iran, Venezuela, Nigeria and many places can produced oil but there is only one world factory which is China,.

You havent answer me why US and Western Europe still import Made in China at record pace but instead babble nonsense to try to mislead readers. I am sure Western has no love for China but why are they still buy an enemy products? And you think they have a choice? LOL..

Keep deluding yourself US and Europe has way to weed off Made in China. I work for commercial products and once we have an innovative products. We fly to China to commercial and mass produce those things. There no other place or complete place like China to mass products with quality while without cutting into high cost that will dent your profit. Workforce is world class and discipline. They are responsible and hardworking while without asking too much.

You cant find such production anywhere other parts of the world. Western workforce will be busy asking for incentives while working little to justify their paycheck.
 
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You are deluding yourself to compare oil, gas to commodity.. Saudi, Iran, Venezuela, Nigeria and many places can produced oil but there is only one world factory which is China,.

You havent answer me why US and Western Europe still import Made in China at record pace but instead babble nonsense to try to mislead readers. I am sure Western has no love for China but why are they still buy an enemy products? And you think they have a choice? LOL..

Keep deluding yourself US and Europe has way to weed off Made in China. I work for commercial products and once we have an innovative products. We fly to China to commercial and mass produce those things. There no other place or complete place like China to mass products with quality while without cutting into high cost that will dent your profit. Workforce is world class and discipline. They are responsible and hardworking while without asking too much.

You cant find such production anywhere other parts of the world. Western workforce will be busy asking for incentives while working little to justify their paycheck.
The west buys Chinese products because at the moment they have no alternative. The infrastructure and efficiency in China keeps costs down. But that won’t be the case forever. In the west the process will be automated as much as possible, while investments are being made to make the infrastructure competitive with China. Look at the Tesla gigafactories. Sure workers in Fremont California were demand more, but that’s why the company moved to Texas. So I will give it to you that the behavior of labor is one of China’s strengths, but I would like you to admit there has been a shift in the west and the trends in manufacturing aren’t all rosy for China.

 
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China needs to be able to sell to foreign markets to recoup its investments. Chinese labor costs are grown substantially, and the west is working on ways to lower their cost to build products till many (not all) western products are cheaper to make then Chinese products. In that context, westerners would buy locally rather then from Asia. Especially at similar costs and if they know it will bring back local jobs. I have lived in rural America for years, and men would vote for that in a heartbeat to gain back a sense of purpose when they are in manufacturing.

Look at Russia, cut off from selling a lot of things to markets, even at below market rates. The US is working on getting Europe off Russia oil/gas and possibly on to US LNG over the next 6-12 months.


The US has gotten Germany to increase their defense spending. Once the republicans are back in control of Congress this year, they will slash social spending to ramp up military spending like the Reagan buildup of the 1980s. The west has more then enough money and resources to ramp up defense production.


Doesn’t look like the Russians are done with their war any time soon.


Is China prepared to use those weapons against allied forces? The US is building up all its allies to be used in combination against China. What business does NATO have in East Asia, but they are being built up to counter China as evidenced by their naval patrols off the Chinese coast. The cost spread out over all these countries will be maybe 200 Billion extra a year, which is almost the same as the entire Chinese military budget itself.

China can only seize assets once. After that forget about new investments, and selling products to western nations, just like what is happening with Russia. It will take the west 2-3 years to rebuild all the lost factories in China. It will be painful and expensive but the west can get it done. The west will probably seize the $2-3 Trillion of Chinese T-Bill to pay for it too. Or the west will just print money and put the cost on society. Sure costs will go up, but it will be done in the name of national security so no one will question it.



This is why BRI has to get done by the end of this decade if China is to be secure sources of raw materials and reliable markets. $50-100 billion a year for the next 5-7 years invested (NOT LOANED) in Africa and the region between China and there is a small price to pay to gain this kind of resilience. Also, the investment can’t be called a loan or else it will lose the PR wars in these countries as well.
I seen enough of asinine logic you displayed that I am happy to know exactly where you should be placed.
For me to have more time to spend on gainful and happy things like smelling roses and washing my dog.
 
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The west buys Chinese products because at the moment they have no alternative. The infrastructure and efficiency in China keeps costs down. But that won’t be the case forever. In the west the process will be automated as much as possible, while investments are being made to make the infrastructure competitive with China. Look at the Tesla gigafactories. Sure workers in Fremont California were demand more, but that’s why the company moved to Texas. So I will give it to you that the behavior of labor is one of China’s strengths, but I would like you to admit there has been a shift in the west and the trends in manufacturing aren’t all rosy for China.
Your delusion level is unbelievable. You are thinking labour is all about paid and what Chinese worker do is no different from a US worker? Can a US worker willing to do OT on weekend instead of spending time on church, just to be responsible to meet customers demand?

And your nonsense great plan about US shifting production back to US and Europe so far failed miserably. Just like those delusion conman keep try to bet on collapsing China for 2 decades.
 
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Chinese men are the most intelligent men on the planet. China need not worry about being behind in science and technology. Most of US high tech are developed by Chinese American men anyway.
So American is not intelligent men, Intelligence is not your heritage, and give us the proofs that MOST OF US TECH DEVELOPED BY CHINESE AMERICAN LOL:hitwall::crazy:

Americans are lazy. How can Americans compete with Chinese men who are the most intelligent men on the planet?

@FuturePAF
I think you're lazy man
 
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Americans are lazy. How can Americans compete with Chinese men who are the most intelligent men on the planet?

@FuturePAF
The poison American try to feed on others bite them back (Human right, freedom and democracy). Made in US is long gone and will never come back. Some can continue to dream and delude themselves.
 
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The poison American try to feed on others bite them back (Human right, freedom and democracy). Made in US is long gone and will never come back. Some can continue to dream and delude themselves.
This has nothing to do with those, just economics. I don’t know if it will work or not, and we all know China and the US business class will do what they can to maintain the status quo. But there is a formal push for this whether you believe me or not. So on the topic of how hard will it be for China to take Taiwan is linked to how much the US can put pressure on China to not contemplate even trying.


P.s. before anyone starts and accuses me of being a paid foreign shill, that is not the case, and I have been extremely fair to everyone on this forum to the best of my abilities. I am citing sources to present on this platform, a forum, to spark a discussion. So I don’t mind if you can find flaws in my arguments, I welcome the criticism, but don’t made unsubstantiated ad hominems.
 
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This has nothing to do with those, just economics. I don’t know if it will work or not, and we all know China and the US business class will do what they can to maintain the status quo. But there is a formal push for this whether you believe me or not. So on the topic of how hard will it be for China to take Taiwan is linked to how much the US can put pressure on China to not contemplate even trying.


P.s. before anyone starts and accuses me of being a paid foreign shill, that is not the case, and I have been extremely fair to everyone on this forum to the best of my abilities. I am citing sources to present on this platform, a forum, to spark a discussion. So I don’t mind if you can find flaws in my arguments, I welcome the criticism, but don’t made unsubstantiated ad hominems.
But your source are BS and just fantasy. True, US has the intention but materializing that is impossible. You haven't answer me yet why US import of made in China continue to increase instead of decline according to your theory and hostility between China and US.

I have no doubt US politician definitely want to get rid of Made in China. But think is one thing. Putting that into reality is another thing. I hope you get that right before you reply me again. Non of the so call nonsense suggest by those simple minded US politician is gonna work.

I can rest assure that plan by US has long started even 10 years ago but until now the only solution is to import more made in China.


What happened to this crap article about Made in USA in 2012? The solution is more Made in China in 2022. I speak the truth back by statistics and data. If you can prove US import less than 10 years ago of Made in China, i eat back my words.
 
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But your source are BS and just fantasy. True, US has the intention but materializing that is impossible. You haven't answer me yet why US import of made in China continue to increase instead of decline according to your theory and hostility between China and US.

I have no doubt US politician definitely want to get rid of Made in China. But think is one thing. Putting that into reality is another thing. I hope you get that right before you reply me again. Non of the so call nonsense suggest by those simple minded US politician is gonna work.

I can rest assure that plan by US has long started even 10 years ago but until now the only solution is to import more made in China.


What happened to this crap article about Made in USA in 2012? The solution is more Made in China in 2022. I speak the truth back by statistics and data. If you can prove US import less than 10 years ago of Made in China, i eat back my words.
I never claimed Americans have been importing less.

Imports increased because Americans were given stimulus checks and stuck at home and because we don’t manufacture the kinds of things people want to buy they imported them. Consumers don’t care where things come from as long as the prices are cheapest relative to the quality.

But you are right that politicians want one thing and the business community does what is most profitable for them. Only time will tell if the politicians are serious this time around. (Also, I won’t discount that more propaganda is being used against China these days so the stats could be overblown. But would you say it’s better safe then sorry, and best to build up allies and access to food from outside the western alliance to hedge against a potential future blockade?)
 
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@FuturePAF :

It is too late for the West to stop China's rise now.

They may still have a chance if they can wean Russia away from China but they were stupid enough to make Russia and China join together. Ukraine war means that Russia is lost to them for at least a generation now.

China + Russia have all the technology, capital and resources to compete with the whole West combined. Others like India and Brazil will also not stop trading with China/Russia.

Sorry but you overestimate how much power the West has in 2022.
 
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@FuturePAF :

It is too late for the West to stop China's rise now.

They may still have a chance if they can wean Russia away from China but they were stupid enough to make Russia and China join together. Ukraine war means that Russia is lost to them for at least a generation now.

China + Russia have all the technology, capital and resources to compete with the whole West combined. Others like India and Brazil will also not stop trading with China/Russia.

Sorry but you overestimate how much power the West has in 2022.
You could well be right, and you probably are, but don’t you think it would be best to hedge against the possibility of sanctions by speeding up BRI, especially agricultural modernization in friendly nations to hedge against supplies being cutoff and to help theee countries grow their economies faster to absorb more Chinese products?
 
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What if I tell you that YEARS AGO on this forum I explained why the speed/Doppler component discrimination method have low probability of detection of low radar observable bodes?

It might be useful if you explain it again. A.I. has come a long way in recent years.

From what I understand, the technique here is not Doppler shift but something akin to how distant planets or objects are detected in our solar system. You take several photos of w wide field of vision and see if a dot is moving with respect to the fixed background.
 
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China needs to be able to sell to foreign markets to recoup its investments. Chinese labor costs are grown substantially, and the west is working on ways to lower their cost to build products till many (not all) western products are cheaper to make then Chinese products. In that context, westerners would buy locally rather then from Asia. Especially at similar costs and if they know it will bring back local jobs. I have lived in rural America for years, and men would vote for that in a heartbeat to gain back a sense of purpose when they are in manufacturing.

Look at Russia, cut off from selling a lot of things to markets, even at below market rates. The US is working on getting Europe off Russia oil/gas and possibly on to US LNG over the next 6-12 months.


The US has gotten Germany to increase their defense spending. Once the republicans are back in control of Congress this year, they will slash social spending to ramp up military spending like the Reagan buildup of the 1980s. The west has more then enough money and resources to ramp up defense production.


Doesn’t look like the Russians are done with their war any time soon.


Is China prepared to use those weapons against allied forces? The US is building up all its allies to be used in combination against China. What business does NATO have in East Asia, but they are being built up to counter China as evidenced by their naval patrols off the Chinese coast. The cost spread out over all these countries will be maybe 200 Billion extra a year, which is almost the same as the entire Chinese military budget itself.

China can only seize assets once. After that forget about new investments, and selling products to western nations, just like what is happening with Russia. It will take the west 2-3 years to rebuild all the lost factories in China. It will be painful and expensive but the west can get it done. The west will probably seize the $2-3 Trillion of Chinese T-Bill to pay for it too. Or the west will just print money and put the cost on society. Sure costs will go up, but it will be done in the name of national security so no one will question it.



This is why BRI has to get done by the end of this decade if China is to be secure sources of raw materials and reliable markets. $50-100 billion a year for the next 5-7 years invested (NOT LOANED) in Africa and the region between China and there is a small price to pay to gain this kind of resilience. Also, the investment can’t be called a loan or else it will lose the PR wars in these countries as well.

It will take the west 2-3 years to rebuild all the lost factories in China?

No, it will take at least 100 years to rebuild the modern industrial system from scratch.
Have you eve
r wondered why the West has been unable to transfer manufacturing from China? Why do Chinese people earn six times as much as Indians, but goods made in India are much more expensive than those made in China? Because China is the only country with a complete industrial system.

Even in the last century, China has never been the country with the lowest labor cost. In fact, in addition to low-end labor-intensive industries, labor cost is not the largest commodity cost, and industrial chain and logistics are the biggest commodity costs, that is also the reason why the cost of goods in countries such as India is much higher than that in China. I am engaged in cemented carbide industry, if I want to sell a batch of drill bits, first I need to buy tungsten powder and cobalt powder from other enterprises, then I need other enterprises to help me press it into alloy rods, I also need enterprises to help me do wire cutting, and I also need enterprises to help me weld the alloy head to the steel bar. A total of more than 10 enterprises are required to cooperate together. If I am an Indian, I need to mail products more than ten times around the world and bear the logistics cost and time back and forth, the logistics cost will exceed the cost of the product itself by several times. In China, I can carry out all production links in one city.

China has the largest, most perfect and most reasonably designed industrial chain in the world, and the most advanced and efficient logistics system, that is the most important reason why capital cannot leave China. Sorry, I forgot that there is also the largest market in the world. Any enterprise leaving China will face fierce competition from China, and it will be difficult for such enterprises to survive.

The modern industrial system is huge and complex, far beyond your imagination.

You come from the West and are not as familiar with industrial knowledge as the Chinese, so you really underestimate the difficulty and time of rebuilding the modern industrial system from scratch.



These are consumables for coal and oil mines. If the supply of consumables is stopped, these mines will be shut down within three days. If the work is stopped for more than three months, these machines need to be overhauled and then scrapped<So if China ZCC.CT group (factory 601, which produces 15% of the world's cemented carbide products) imposes sanctions on Russia, Russia will not be able to produce any resources.>.

View attachment 832134

View attachment 832135

The modern industrial system is a result of the gradual upgrading and accumulation of human beings over a thousand years. If the industrial chain breaks, it will be scrapped quickly, but the reconstruction time will take generations.

For example, if you want to make penicillin, a necessity of modern mankind, you first need to be able to make freeze-dried powder. If you want to make lyophilized powder, you first need high voltage current. If you want high voltage current, you first need stainless steel, special steel, rubber and electric welding. Synthetic rubber needs organic chemical industry, which needs ethylene manufacturing and aromatics manufacturing. Welding requires electrical systems, which require capacitor manufacturing and mercury arc rectifiers, which require chlorine manufacturing and aluminum industry. Just one penicillin, you need to develop hundreds of industrial links. It takes only a week for China to get resource countries to abandon the dollar, because Chinese have mastered the necessities of life and production consumables they need. The west can't even make light bulbs in a week, because it needs vacuum pumps, and then vacuum pumps need hundreds of advanced technologies.

Even if Western countries are given a hundred years, they will not be able to rebuild the whole industrial chain from scratch. China is the only country on the blue planet with a complete manufacturing industry.



USA does not control more than 70% of the world's military and financial power, but China controls more than 70% of the world's factories. Once China launches sanctions against the west, confiscate all western factories & Investment & Patents in China. Some of the only factories in the West will also be shut down and abandoned quickly due to the broken supply chain. For example, Kenner and Sandvik of Germany, which need Chinese raw materials in the cemented carbide industry, and Indian and American pharmaceutical companies in the pharmaceutical industry.
Without material and commodity supplies, USA cannot even wage war against a small country like Haiti. Of course, the US military should be busy dealing with domestic riots at that time. Once the supply of goods is cut off, whether rich or poor, Americans will rob supermarkets with guns.


BTW: You should check China's grain output, which is twice that of India. China's grain output ranks first in the world, and its grain reserves account for 70% of the global reserves. China can be self-sufficient in grain and is not afraid of blockade at all. Moreover, USA may not be able to blockade China. If China continues to expand its navy for 20 years, we will have enough navy to blockade USA.

In addition, we welcome the Republican Party to continue to increase military spending. US military expenditure accounts for 3.5% of GDP, while China's military expenditure accounts for 1% of GDP. If USA military spending triples to 10%, congratulations to USA, you have reached the level of military spending of the Soviet Union.
At that time, USA may need a Stalin and Kim Jong Un to keep the country stable under such high military spending. Oh, you can make trump the emperor of the Empire(I'm not kidding. The worse the economy, the more populism prevails. Trump must have been the most popular American politician at that time. He was likely to become the emperor of the Empire. Americans would want him to be Napoleon.).
 
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