Best BVR Capable Fighter in South Asia

[rockstarIN]

This thread was very informative sply inputs from Chogy, hats off to him

 

[anathema]

The PAF has already envisaged this threat package and is prepared to nutralize this. The important aspects which have been missed out is the look down shoot down capability of Indian AI and their large doppler notches. The PAF is extremely well trained in beam &drag and zoom up interceptions which when combined with the capabilities of block 52 F-16s makes neutralizing above mentioned packages a walk in the Park.

So we add


With their High bore off sight AIM 120 missiles and Link 16 Tactital Data Links integrated with the helmet mounted cueing system the PAF Block B2 F-16s have a capability of firing c-7 AMRAAMS at off boresight of as much as 90 degrees. This means that they shall have the best F-pole in any future air conflict. They shall also be able to neutralize envisaged indian packages through extensive training in beam & drag and zoom up interceptions.


The PAF Block 52 F-16 hence is the best BVR capable Fighter in South Asia.

Pakistan Zindabad

All Su 30 MKI's (the ones that were produced earlier and the new ones) have been retrofitted with link 16 data link..i believe its ISRAELI Spectran.. I had posted the source long back, too lazy to search for it now...How do you suppose Su 30's interact with phalcon's ? Also other a/c's such as Mig 29 and MK2 will be fitted with same data link as a part of upgrade process.. You will be seeing a good amount 'net centric' operations in IAF in the next 2 years.

 

[SQ8]

We were just having fun and his name is rockstar not rooster. Anyway Silent Hawk extraditing from this thread.

Never called him a rooster.. :S
Its a reference to how roosters fight..
and it is fun..

 

[rsingh]

PAF just got some bvr missiles whereas IAF had them for over a decade. PAF stands no chance against IAF in BVR department.

 

[Jungibaaz]

PAF just got some bvr missiles whereas IAF had them for over a decade. PAF stands no chance against IAF in BVR department.

Aim-120C-5 is one hell of a BVRAAM

tell me how we don't stand a chance? sure 10 years back, we had none, but pretty soon all of our fighters will have BVRs.

F-16/52 - AIM-120C-5
JF-17 - SD-10
J-10 - SD-10
not sure about which BVRs F-7p/pg and our Mirages have.

 

[Storm Force]

SD10 is not in service stil in testing.

At Present the only worth while Dangerous BVR in PAF arsenal is 500 Amraams ordered recently.

These can only be used by F16s x 63 planes as planned to date.

IN CONTRAST #

India has around 4000 BVR missles equipping over 370 fighters.

130 su30mki R77 & R27
80 MIG29 SMT/K R77 & R27
120 MIG21 BISON R77 R77
51 MIRAGE 2000 MATRA 530

Its a bit lopsided in India, Favour i think

 

[Trichy]

Aim-120C-5 is one hell of a BVRAAM

tell me how we don't stand a chance? sure 10 years back, we had none, but pretty soon all of our fighters will have BVRs.

F-16/52 - AIM-120C-5
JF-17 - SD-10
J-10 - SD-10
not sure about which BVRs F-7p/pg and our Mirages have.

Only F-16C/D only have BVRAAM in 2010

JF-17 have BVRAAM in 2009

J-10B have BVRAAM in ????

Mind it ur first BVR platform is JF-17 only, then comes F-16C/D

There is no order issued for J-10B so stop it..

if u say J-10B also we say PAK-FA...???

 

[TaimiKhan]

SD10 is not in service stil in testing.

At Present the only worth while Dangerous BVR in PAF arsenal is 500 Amraams ordered recently.

These can only be used by F16s x 63 planes as planned to date.

IN CONTRAST #

India has around 4000 BVR missles equipping over 370 fighters.

130 su30mki R77 & R27
80 MIG29 SMT/K R77 & R27
120 MIG21 BISON R77 R77
51 MIRAGE 2000 MATRA 530

Its a bit lopsided in India, Favour i think

Only F-16C/D only have BVRAAM in 2010

JF-17 have BVRAAM in 2009

J-10B have BVRAAM in ????

Mind it ur first BVR platform is JF-17 only, then comes F-16C/D

There is no order issued for J-10B so stop it..

if u say J-10B also we say PAK-FA...???

The H-4 program of PAF since early 2000s, is an A2A BVR missile program. Which gave PAF BVR capability much before the AMRAAMs started to come into play.

But still if you guys wanna think IAF had complete BVR superiority, can't help in that, keep thinking.

 

[gambit]

U r right, offbore sight is for IR seekers, not active radar seeking missiles, like AIM120 & R-77

Off boresight simply means the target is beyond the physical scan limitations of the sensor, be it infrared or radar, on the parent aircraft and the missile.

AIM-120 AMRAAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once the missile closes to self-homing distance, it turns on its active radar seeker and searches for the target aircraft. If the target is in or near the expected location, the missile will find it and guide itself to the target from this point. At the point where an AMRAAM switches to autonomous self-guidance, the NATO brevity code "Pitbull" would be called out on the radio, just as "Fox Three" would be called out upon launch.

If the missile is fired at short range (typically visual range), it can use its active seeker just after launch, making the missile truly "fire and forget". The NATO brevity code "Maddog" is used in this situation.

If the target is close enough for the pilot to visually acquire it and an off boresight shoot, then a radar guided missile can acquire the target on its own, just like how an infrared guided missile can with the current integration between off boresight capability to infrared guided missiles. The issue is to widen that off boresight guidance capability from infrared guided missiles to radar guided missiles.

 

[silent hawk]

Off boresight simply means the target is beyond the physical scan limitations of the sensor, be it infrared or radar, on the parent aircraft and the missile.

AIM-120 AMRAAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is where I feel the PAF may have an advantage.

Generally to fire a BVR the target must be acquire by the AI. Now according to post 2 the MIG 29K will pick up PAF block 52s first. However according to post 77 the F-16s block 52 shall pick up the adversaries much earlier. There is controversy here but atleast we can accept that the competion is between these two.

The Off boresight capability of AA-12 with Mig 29K AI is 45 degrees. On the otherhand the offboresight capabity of AMRAAMs with F-16 block 52 radars radars is 65 degrees. hence using internal AI the PAF block 52s while using AMRAAMs shall have off bore sight advantage of 20 degrees over their adversaries.

Neutral people in this thread have admitted that the Link-16 is superior than the tactical data links available with India. The biggest advantage of the link 16 is that it integrates data from own aircraft, AWACS and ground sensors as well. With India as the aggressor the fight is likely to take place over Pakistan in which case the link 16 shall give the Block 52s 360 degrees radar coverage. Using the helmetmounted cueing system the Block 52 F-16s while using AMRAAMs shall hence have an off bore sight capability of upto 180 degrees (academically)

The PAF is sure to develop its tactics on these facts and hence it is very likely that due to their unmatched off bore sight capability in future combat the block 52 F-16s may prove to be the best BVR capable fighters

 

[anathema]

deleted repost

 

[SpArK]

@ anathema

Our naval sea harrier comes with AIM-120 AMRAAM ,, right??

 

[silent hawk]

This is where I feel the PAF may have an advantage.

Generally to fire a BVR the target must be acquire by the AI. Now according to post 2 the MIG 29K will pick up PAF block 52s first. However according to post 77 the F-16s block 52 shall pick up the adversaries much earlier. There is controversy here but atleast we can accept that the competion is between these two.

The Off boresight capability of AA-12 with Mig 29K AI is 45 degrees. On the otherhand the offboresight capabity of AMRAAMs with F-16 block 52 radars radars is 65 degrees. hence using internal AI the PAF block 52s while using AMRAAMs shall have off bore sight advantage of 20 degrees over their adversaries.

Neutral people in this thread have admitted that the Link-16 is superior than the tactical data links available with India. The biggest advantage of the link 16 is that it integrates data from own aircraft, AWACS and ground sensors as well. With India as the aggressor the fight is likely to take place over Pakistan in which case the link 16 shall give the Block 52s 360 degrees radar coverage. Using the helmetmounted cueing system the Block 52 F-16s while using AMRAAMs shall hence have an off bore sight capability of upto 180 degrees (academically)

The PAF is sure to develop its tactics on these facts and hence it is very likely that due to their unmatched off bore sight capability in future combat the block 52 F-16s may prove to be the best BVR capable fighters

@ anathema

Our naval sea harrier comes with AIM-120 AMRAAM ,, right??

Good, now Indians are hoping they have AMRAAMs

 

[rockstarIN]

Main engagement scenario is against other aircraft with fire-and-forget missiles like the Vympel R-77 (NATO AA-12 "Adder") — perhaps MiG-29s, Su-27s or similar. In this case engagement is very much down to teamwork and could be described as "a game of chicken." Both flights of aircraft can fire their missiles at each other beyond visual range (BVR), but then face the problem that if they continue to track the target aircraft in order to provide mid-course updates for the missile's flight, they are also flying into their opponents' missiles. Although in this regard the RVV-AE (which is the missile's export name or R-77 the official Russian Air force designation) does have an advantage as it has a greater range than the AMRAAM (when the AIM-120D is deployed the AMRAAM will have 30+ miles more range than the standard R-77[citation needed] but much less than the ramjet powered R-77M and the Meteor missiles which will also enter service along with AIM-120D). This assumes of course that all aircraft will detect each other

Data from Wikipedia..

The electronic warfare which is being used by us is proven a mix of systems from 3-4 countries. Plus, we have evaluated the F-16 systems thru MMRCA & from joint excercises with Singapore F-16s and familiar with it. and most probably we will not opt for it.

 

[rockstarIN]

@ anathema

Our naval sea harrier comes with AIM-120 AMRAAM ,, right??

It is Python & Derby BVR missiles.