Best BVR Capable Fighter in South Asia

[rockstarIN]

Uhh..
I am not sure how the off boresight capability of the AIM-120 fares..
Link 16 is however.. still regarded as the best datalink operation with room for growth.

The HMS on the PG's is already linked to some sort of BVR system(probably heat seeking).. and allows for 90 degrees off boresight shots. a similar capability is in the pipeline for the JF.

It is ironic .. that for all its unmatched maneuverability..the MKI is losing the ability to utilize it effectively in a future conflict..and will have to depend on its radar, EW and long range weapons to maintain the edge
Right now though.. there is no question in my mind that the MKI on paper.. is the best BVR fighter in south asia. Large radar, off boresight.. and most importantly.. a dedicated WSO..give it the edge in air supremacy...close in.. as chogy pointed out.. its anybody's game now.. and even a mig-21 with 5th gen is deadly to a raptor..

U r right, offbore sight is for IR seekers, not active radar seeking missiles, like AIM120 & R-77

any fighter which can track and fire BVR is as deadly as raptor.
Afterall, it will be desided how better your tactics in air war not one to one fight.

 

[silent hawk]

Just think of a formation of one MKI with 2 Bison & two Mig-29. The MKI can be fly not as a leader in the formation and can use its exclusive Radar to figure out the enemy air crafts at distance and tranfter the same data to the less RCS Bisons & Mig-29 to fire BVR.

The PAF has already envisaged this threat package and is prepared to nutralize this. The important aspects which have been missed out is the look down shoot down capability of Indian AI and their large doppler notches. The PAF is extremely well trained in beam &drag and zoom up interceptions which when combined with the capabilities of block 52 F-16s makes neutralizing above mentioned packages a walk in the Park.

So we add


With their High bore off sight AIM 120 missiles and Link 16 Tactital Data Links integrated with the helmet mounted cueing system the PAF Block B2 F-16s have a capability of firing c-7 AMRAAMS at off boresight of as much as 90 degrees. This means that they shall have the best F-pole in any future air conflict. They shall also be able to neutralize envisaged indian packages through extensive training in beam & drag and zoom up interceptions.


The PAF Block 52 F-16 hence is the best BVR capable Fighter in South Asia.

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[rockstarIN]

The PAF has already envisaged this threat package and is prepared to nutralize this. The important aspects which have been missed out is the look down shoot down capability of Indian AI and their large doppler notches. The PAF is extremely well trained in beam &drag and zoom up interceptions which when combined with the capabilities of block 52 F-16s makes neutralizing above mentioned packages a walk in the Park.

1.Can you explain how?
2. We are talking abt BVR

 

[silent hawk]

"Just think of a formation of one MKI with 2 Bison & two Mig-29. The MKI can be fly not as a leader in the formation and can use its exclusive Radar to figure out the enemy air crafts at distance and tranfter the same data to the less RCS Bisons & Mig-29 to fire BVR." Originally posted by rockstar.

The abovementioned package is incomplete because it has no strike aircraft (all aircrafts are primarily air superiority with SU-30 acting as AWACs). PAF shall primarily be fighting the war in a defensive role. It hence the option of deceiving, diverting or destroying IAF raids The IAF in order to achieve success must destroy its target.

Kindly add the strike package and then explain how the above mentioned package shall protect it. No point in making hypothetical packages unless they have some practical value.

 

[rockstarIN]

"Just think of a formation of one MKI with 2 Bison & two Mig-29. The MKI can be fly not as a leader in the formation and can use its exclusive Radar to figure out the enemy air crafts at distance and tranfter the same data to the less RCS Bisons & Mig-29 to fire BVR." Originally posted by rockstar.

The abovementioned package is incomplete because it has no strike aircraft (all aircrafts are primarily air superiority with SU-30 acting as AWACs). PAF shall primarily be fighting the war in a defensive role. It hence the option of deceiving, diverting or destroying IAF raids The IAF in order to achieve success must destroy its target.

Kindly add the strike package and then explain how the above mentioned package shall protect it. No point in making hypothetical packages unless they have some practical value.

If somebody intrude into your air space, will you check out first what is their aim, then will only send figthers to intercept?

Since PAF will fly defensive, air superiority will be the prime aim at the start, possibly looking first to engage and knock out blk 52 at first. There is a tactics to lure the enemy fighters to a conflict where the other one decide which area has to be the theatre.

Israelis did the same in their wars extensively and was a great success.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Kindly add the strike package and then explain how the above mentioned package shall protect it. No point in making hypothetical packages unless they have some practical value.

Bless U the Su 30 MKI can also be used as the so called Strike package.....
Ever heard of Multi Role????????

It hence the option of deceiving, diverting or destroying IAF raids The IAF in order to achieve success must destroy its target.

Well what options are left for us? Just to sit and watch? The above mentioned options are not with u rather with us when u are in defensive.

 

[silent hawk]

Bless U the Su 30 MKI can also be used as the so called Strike package.....

The SU MKI is acting as an AWACS in the package. No the strike package is certainly missing. Who ever heard of four tied escorts being sent to defend a single strike aircraft.

 

[nForce]

The SU MKI is acting as an AWACS in the package. No the strike package is certainly missing. Who ever heard of four tied escorts being sent to defend a single strike aircraft.

Does acting like an AWACS occupies the hard points???

 

[SQ8]

The whole idea of the block 52's going toe to toe.. id ridiculous. they might.. they may not...
As oft repeated in this forum.. the Block 52's are considered a strike asset.. and will be used to penetrate Indian airspace and strike at keystone targets.

Chances are any Indian penetration will be dragged into areas where Air defense is strongest.. and met with a mix of fighters...and yes..both will be looking into luring the enemy to fight at their terms.. but as India will be at the offensive(As if all the PAF will be doing is DCA).. quite likely it will be the Indians being lured in..whether they want to or not..if they want to achieve their objectives..losses will have to be taken.
And as for the counteract to this BVR.. do you guys simply ignore all the posts in this forum.. other threads when making posts???

What do you suppose the SD-10 is?
or the BVRAAM acquisition?.. the Erieye..the ZDK?, jammers..effective surveillance and enhanced C4I.
Even at his point.. approx 40% of the PAF fleet is BVR capable and equipped.
Nuff said.
It seems all you fellows are only interested in one on one comparisons(solely to satisfy ego's)..not taking the airspace constriction, tactical scenario's or even the basic limitations encountered in actual combat..
Equipment matters.. what matters more is how you utilize it.. the IAF will undoubtedly use it to their professional best.. and so will the PAF..
And right now.. by all accounts.. the PAF is happy with its plans considering its limited resources.

And btw... somebody will have very little chance to intrude the airspace without having a welcoming party waiting for them... the IAF learned that two years ago.

 

[rockstarIN]

The whole idea of the block 52's going toe to toe.. id ridiculous. they might.. they may not...
As oft repeated in this forum.. the Block 52's are considered a strike asset.. and will be used to penetrate Indian airspace and strike at keystone targets.

Chances are any Indian penetration will be dragged into areas where Air defense is strongest.. and met with a mix of fighters...and yes..both will be looking into luring the enemy to fight at their terms.. but as India will be at the offensive(As if all the PAF will be doing is DCA).. quite likely it will be the Indians being lured in..whether they want to or not..if they want to achieve their objectives..losses will have to be taken.
And as for the counteract to this BVR.. do you guys simply ignore all the posts in this forum.. other threads when making posts???

What do you suppose the SD-10 is?
or the BVRAAM acquisition?.. the Erieye..the ZDK?, jammers..effective surveillance and enhanced C4I.
Even at his point.. approx 40% of the PAF fleet is BVR capable and equipped.Nuff said.
It seems all you fellows are only interested in one on one comparisons(solely to satisfy ego's)..not taking the airspace constriction, tactical scenario's or even the basic limitations encountered in actual combat..
Equipment matters.. what matters more is how you utilize it.. the IAF will undoubtedly use it to their professional best.. and so will the PAF..
And right now.. by all accounts.. the PAF is happy with its plans considering its limited resources.

And btw... somebody will have very little chance to intrude the airspace without having a welcoming party waiting for them... the IAF learned that two years ago.

I beg to differ on the bold parts. please paste any link. Any about drawing battle plans, how come a defender make the battle plan? It is not land war, you lay land mines and wait for the enemy. You have to entercept the enemy fighter where ever it may come to save the territory. Suppose if intrusion comes from southern area, you cant lure him to your protected area of north. The attacker will dictate the terms.

 

[SQ8]

Im sorry.. but you wont get links on BVR. take it at face value..or keep your doubts. Would you like to ask anybody else?.. I suppose if anybody was told in the late 50's about the A-12 oxcart.. they would start asking for letters or proofs?..
As far as the attacker dictating the terms.. sure .. which is why you ensure a killzone near the critical targets... you dont leave one section undefended at the expense of the other..
Defenders cant have battle plans.. landmines??
Do you equate air combat to land warfare?
Back in 65.. the PAF had a set battle plan(which was not followed to the letter because of obduracy on part of timid commanders)...which had preset strike plans for Indian bases.. and targets..with provisions to protect our own airspace simultaneously..
The whole idea for Pakistan is to slow the onslaught.. an idea that evolves into a battleplan.. yes.. defenders have battleplans as well.

 

[rockstarIN]

I'm not saying defenders have no plans, every AF will have their plans.

What all I'm saying the attackers in air have more say where to fly and where to fight. |If you check most of the air wars, it is the same. Battle of Britain was fought over Britain not over France.

 

[SQ8]

England is an island..even then..RAF bombers were used continuously for raids in Germany.
Look at your own wars.. 65 and 71.. where were the battles fought??
Was air combat confined to Pakistan?
Was India the only one attacking the others fighting ability?

Off course the attacker has more say where he picks the fight..
But in this case.. there isnt an attacker or defender... its mix of both...in differing ratio's.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Offensive defence..

 

[SQ8]

Offensive defence..

Thank you..
I wanted to use that term.. just was avoiding that trying to maintain the same language.

The 3 permutations..
defensive-defensive
offensive-defensive
offensive-offensive

are phases in a war plan.. each pre-planned.. yet fluid enough to be brought in and changed according to the situation.