Besides Kashmir, What else are the reason of animosity between India and Pakistan?

[shootingstar]

If Kashmir is resolved

They will ask for Delhi and Agra.

This fight is not really about Kashmir , it is about some medieval sense of entitlement over South Asia and its about “ toys for the boys”

It is the responsibility of the majority to ensure that minority rights are protected. Else you cannot blame others for your misgivings.

I sincerely hope India parts away Kashmir and Assam to Pakistan and Bangladesh respectively.

 

[Shajida Khan]

There is no single entity such as India. There is no uniform identity or perspective. Most Indians from the East, South etc have no problem with Pakistan. The upper caste Hindus from the east and North will always have a problem. They consider us Pakistan as "thier territory" so will always hold animosity towards us.

India is as much of single entity as China is. Uhigurs of China have a different opinion of the world --including Pakistan-- compared to Hans, so do Tibetians. But then, whose opinion counts? CCP's. Same in India. We have regional difference of opinion. But the opinion that matters is that of Indian government and to an extent deep state of India.

Also the upper caste Hindus in areas with high Muslim populations will always consider us the enemy as we took rule away from them and ruled them for 1000 years.

'We ruled over'?
Who is this we, what is their identity? What is their 'royal identity'?
The Christians of the the sub-continent never claim 200 years of rule vicariously via British.

 

[shootingstar]

Okay, I was downplaying or understating 'anger' with using the phrase 'not happy' for sarcasm. Kashmiri are pretty angry with us to be fair. And its not 'angry' as in 'you don't freaking do anything for us on time!' but 'You are freaken killing our youth! Leave us alone! You dogs!' angry.

Agree. India should let go Kashmiris.

My proposal would be let Valley join Pakistan and Ladakh partially join Pakistan and partially join China.

This would be win-win for all parties involved.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Dear friend...your question is very honest, the answer of this question is very ugly..
- If Kashmir is given independence, then there will be question within India, why Gandhi created secular India when Muslims gets their piece of land based on their religion but Hindus did not...Congress will be technically wiped out of political space of India...So at least politically, it is a suicidal for any secular political parties to provide any flexibility to Kashmir valley to get separated.

The 'secular' thing seems to be more of a Nehru thing. Gandhi was too busy elsewhere. Heck even secular was inserted into constitution by Indra Gandhi --whom you know is a member of Nehru family not exactly Gandhi. Nehru was enamored with western progressive ideals of left leaning values.

I concur that though a separation of Kashmir will be perceived by a large section of Hindus as a another Muslim betrayal. The reality is that most of the Muslims in India know and influence Kashmiris as much as Indian Hindus do.

- On ground, most of the Indian knows Kashmir valleys does not like India...Nothing new about it...And that is the big problem too..Most of the Indian people do not really care if Kashmir valley suffers in human rights...Because, if they did not care about Indian and can call Indian dogs are out, then why should any one care about them..Let them pay the price for being anti Indian...

If you want to go into that, the biggest mistake India made was to keep Kashmir a separate entity. When Hari singh was ready to join India, Indian government should have said clearly that you will join us on our terms. Special status should not have ever been promised. Or we should have done what we did in Punjab. Deny special status.
Right now, even with all the Khalistan brouhaha among few Sikhs, the Sikhs in general are well assimilated in India. About 45% of Punjab is no longer Sikh but Punjabi Hindus. Even if a referendum is held in Punjab, the result will be in favour of Remaining with India. We should have followed same lines in Kashmir.

- Again, it is about mindset of Pakistan, the nature of Islam to always try to be in war with non other religion...You do not have to look any where for examples...Just around the world, most of the Islamic countries are in war in middle east, Africa and so one..That creates trust deficiency for Hindus, how can you trust Pakistan after handing over Kashmir that they will not find another reason to fight with us...

[/QUOTE]
The biggest Muslim populations outside India and Pakistan is Indonesia. Yet to see them being in war with say Australia or Singapore. What you are referring to is perhaps the Wahabi and Salafi school among Muslims. They are the loudest noise and unfortunately, our neighbors have taken them as their guiding star. Its a curse for Muslims in general. Many Muslims think of them as Khawarijs, against whom Our Prophet have warned us.

 

[Old School]

Beware of the ‘is/ought fallacy’. Only because something ‘is’ a particular way does not always necessarily translate that it ‘ought’ to be that way. Critical thinking is required here as opposed to popular belief. It makes little sense what the world should/ought to be ; it matters what the world ‘is’.

Nationalistic determinism is relatively new phenomenon which does not and can not solve people’s problem. It may however help politicians to fulfill their petty ambitions specially, in the sub continent where feudal culture worships and seeks heros.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Agree. India should let go Kashmiris.

My proposal would be let Valley join Pakistan and Ladakh partially join Pakistan and partially join China.

This would be win-win for all parties involved.

I am not proposing for Kashmir to join Pakistan. I am merely doing a thought experiment. A What If of sorts.

Ladhak and Jammu keep Kashmir and Kashmiri away with a ten foot pole. They know which side of the bread has the butter. They want nothing to do with Pakistan or China.

 

[shootingstar]

I am not proposing for Kashmir to join Pakistan. I am merely doing a thought experiment. A What If of sorts.

Ladhak and Jammu keep Kashmir and Kashmiri away with a ten foot pole. They know which side of the bread has the butter. They want nothing to do with Pakistan or China.

China surely has more butter than India. India should stop treating its citizens as slaves and numbers. It is time to let go Kashmir valley and Ladakh. India has enough land, resources and people to make progress and make it great again.

 

[Rusty]

Pakistan is built on a lie that Hindus & Muslims can't live together , yet India has nearly the same Muslim population as Pakistan

and look how terrified they are

The problem was not that Muslims and Hindus can't live with each other, the problem was that Hindus would take out 800 of impotence and frustrations out on Muslims in the new Republic. Jinnah was right, you can't deny that.

 

[Shajida Khan]

China surely has more butter than India. India should stop treating its citizens as slaves and numbers. It is time to let go Kashmir valley and Ladakh. India has enough land, resources and people to make progress and make it great again.

Sorry only east China has butter. West China is largely neglected.

The problem was not that Muslims and Hindus can't live with each other, the problem was that Hindus would take out 800 of impotence and frustrations out on Muslims in the new Republic. Jinnah was right, you can't deny that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

The rate of murder in Pakistasn was 7.31 per 100,000 compared to Indian 3.21. If I had to make a choice it will certainly not be Jinnah's Pakistan.

 

[Rusty]

Sorry only east China has butter. West China is largely neglected.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

The rate of murder in Pakistasn was 7.31 per 100,000 compared to Indian 3.21. If I had to make a choice it will certainly not be Jinnah's Pakistan.

That is not the topic, stay on topic, topic is Muslims and Hindus not being able to live side by side.
(besides, I can bring up rapes in India, but again, not on topic)

**EDIT

I checked your link, and besides Pakistan it says "Notes" Clicked the notes and take me here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_North-West_Pakistan

Yeah no shit Pakistan will have higher murder rate... there is a war going on.
What war is going on in India to account for all the rapes?

 

[shootingstar]

Sorry only east China has butter. West China is largely neglected.

Relatively speaking true but as a whole China has much more capacity to provide Ladakh much more butter than India could ever provide. That is a cold hard fact.

 

[waz]

Let's be honest it really is just Kashmir. If it is ever resolved the two will get on very well.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Relatively speaking true but as a whole China has much more capacity to provide Ladakh much more butter than India could ever provide. That is a cold hard fact.

Lol. Its not that simple. Do people from Ladakh know Chinese? Do they look like Hans? Nope!
Just because they have money does not mean Ladakhi ppl will get it. East Chinese is essentially Han-China. Heck even people from outside beijing have hard time settling in Beijing.

BTW, if it were so ease to earn a lot and live a great life, people from whole of India would have been flocking to East China. At best you see some Indians in Hong Kong.

That is not the topic, stay on topic, topic is Muslims and Hindus not being able to live side by side.

Huh? India is the third largest Muslim population. Muslims are very very well represented in Indian politics all the way to the very top of the national hierarchy. BTW, within Pakistan on a per 100,000 basis, more Muslims are killing other Muslims than in India Hindu killing Muslims. From all I have seen, Muslims are having more problem living together than Muslims living with Hindus! Are Muslims at peace with each other? Nope! Iran is not at peace with Saudis or Arabs. Salafis from Saudi think rest of muslims are below them. They are amassing weapons trained at each other! Heck I am safer in Canada or USA way way more than I would have been in say Pakistan or Afghanistan. Speaks a lot about Muslims ability to live together peacefully in subcontinent!

What ever problem Muslims face, having separate Muslim nation(s) surely has not proved to be a solution to it.

 

[shootingstar]

Lol. Its not that simple. Do people from Ladakh know Chinese? Do they look like Hans? Nope!
Just because they have money does not mean Ladakhi ppl will get it. East Chinese is essentially Han-China. Heck even people from outside beijing have hard time settling in Beijing.

BTW, if it were so ease to earn a lot and live a great life, people from whole of India would have been flocking to East China. At best you see some Indians in Hong Kong.

The fact is Ladkh is made of Muslims and Buddhists. The Muslim regions of Ladakh along with the valley should merge with Pakistan and the Buddhist regions should merge with China.

 

[waz]

Ladakh and Jammu remain with India and the valley goes with Pakistan. Everlasting peace after that.